#736: A Strategic Deep Dive on TikTok, The Boiling Moat of Taiwan, and China’s Next-Gen Statecraft — Matt Pottinger, Former U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor

Matt Pottinger is a distinguished visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution and chairman of the China Program at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Matt served as U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor from 2019 to 2021. Before his White House service, Matt spent the late 1990s and early 2000s in China as a reporter for Reuters and The Wall Street Journal. He then fought in Iraq and Afghanistan as a U.S. Marine during three combat deployments between 2007 and 2010. Matt’s new book is The Boiling Moat: Urgent Steps to Defend Taiwan.

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Timestamps:

[00:00] Start

[05:55] Bao Tong’s calligraphy.

[08:20] Matt’s decision to study East Asian languages.

[10:13] Studying with Perry Link and the challenges of learning Chinese.

[12:19] Tips for learning Chinese and other languages.

[17:17] How TikTok has been weaponized by the Chinese Communist Party.

[20:58] The origins of TikTok and its obfuscatory ownership structure.

[26:30] How sowing chaos in the West serves the CCP’s aims.

[31:37] “Politics stops at the water’s edge.”

[33:11] How should the US rein in TikTok’s influence over its population?

[40:23] The significance of Taiwan geographically, ideologically, and economically.

[49:59] The semiconductor industry in Taiwan and its global importance.

[52:07] Deterring China from attacking or coercing Taiwan.

[58:51] Cultivating social depth in Taiwan.

[1:01:09] Guessing at Xi Jinping’s timeline.

[1:05:33] Demonstrating the will to match the capacity of following through.

[1:07:47] Matt’s top priorities for stemming Chinese ambitions.

[1:10:15] Architects of chaos.

[1:14:21] Staying alert against informational warfare and united front activity.

[1:21:00] Countering China’s influence on its Western-based citizens.

[1:25:05] Checkers vs. Go.

[1:26:56] How can the US reassert its position as a beacon of democracy?

[1:33:05] What prompted Matt to join the Marine Corps at age 32?

[1:38:50] Getting in shape for the occasion.

[1:40:45] Leadership lessons learned.

[1:46:59] The Boiling Moat, the importance of public service, and parting thoughts.

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