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Dave Stachowiak

Leaders aren’t born; they’re made. Many leaders reach points in their careers where what worked yesterday doesn’t work today. This Monday show helps leaders thrive at these key inflection points. Independently produced weekly since 2011, Dr. Dave Stachowiak shares insights from a decade of leading a global leadership academy, plus more than 15 years of leadership at Dale Carnegie. Bestselling authors, proven leaders, expert thinkers, and deep conversation have attracted 50 million downloads and over 300,000 followers. Join the FREE membership to search the entire leadership and management library by topic at CoachingforLeaders.com

Coaching for Leaders

Phil Le-Brun: The Octopus Organization

Phil Le-Brun is an executive in residence at Amazon Web Services and a former corporate VP and international CIO at the McDonald’s Corporation. He is a sought-after speaker and has been featured in Harvard Business Review, The Wall Street Journal, and The Guardian. He is the co-author with Jana Werner of The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most of us have gone through some version of a reorg. A lot of leaders have also implemented their own reorgs. Sometimes they work. Many times, they don’t. In this conversation, Phil and I discuss what goes wrong with reorgs and how we can do better.

Key Points

 • Organizations traditionally looked like the tin man from 
The Wizard of Oz: • perfectly planned, many interchangeable parts, not flexible.

 • An octopus organization adapts, works independently to serve the larger whole, and is innately curious.

 • A reorg that starts with an org chart misses the complex organic connections you are unlikely to fully understand.

 • Prioritize structural stability while building internal flexibility.

 • Nurture the complex informal human networks that deliver value.

 • Be honest about objectives and communicate a reorg early.

 • Engage people by starting with smaller-scale change. Clarify the problem to be solved instead of the structural “answer.”

Resources Mentioned

The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation • by Phil Le-Brun and Jana Werner (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Get the Ideal Team Player, with Patrick Lencioni • (episode 301)

How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson • (episode 621)

How to Help Employees Handle Tough Moments, with Anthony Klotz • (episode 777)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

786: The Problem with Reorgs and How to Do Better, with Phil Le-Brun

Liane Davey: Thoughtload

For the past 25 years, Liane Davey has researched and advised teams on how to achieve high performance. She is the author of You First and The Good Fight and is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review. She is the author of the new book Thoughtload: Manage the Madness and Free Your Team to Do Great Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all love to hate our task lists. However, we can do a lot better with just a bit of strategy. In this conversation, Liane and I explore how to make our task list work for us instead of against us.

Key Points

 • Often it’s not really the workload that’s crushing – it’s more so the thinking about all the workload. That’s what thoughtload is.

 • The problem with a to-do list is that everything goes on it. Thus, to-do lists are terrible for managing your attention.

 • Instead of one task list, keep a limited amount of tasks on three priority lists.

 • Category 1 list: your most important outputs and outcomes.

 • Category 2 list: what you do to help others achieve their most significant outcomes.

 • Category 3 list: administrative stuff.

Four questions determine what gets on your lists:

 • Important (an activity that will add value to a key output or outcome)?

 • Urgent (something with growing negative consequences if you wait)?

 • Targeted (a task that no one can do as efficiently or effectively as you)?

 • Essential (core to creating the critical value, not just a nice-to-have)?

Resources Mentioned

Thoughtload: Manage the Madness and Free Your Team to Do Great Work • by Liane Davey (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Scientific Secrets of Daily Scheduling, with Daniel Pink • (episode 332)

Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal • (episode 431)

How to Take Back Your Evenings, with Guy Winch • (episode 783)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

785: Make Your Task List Work for You, with Liane Davey

Eric Ries: Incorruptible

Eric Ries is the creator of the Lean Startup method, and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup, The Leader’s Guide, and The Startup Way. Over the last two decades, his ideas about continuous innovation, long-term thinking, governance, and market reform have reshaped company building and management practices. He is the author of Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

If you build a great organization, the predators will come. With the right principles in place, not only can you protect what you love, but help many people flourish because of it. In this conversation, Eric and I show you exactly where to start.

Key Points

 • Most leaders are one acquisition, one IPO, one board meeting away from seeing something they love turn into something they hate.

 • If you build something great, they will come. The “they” are the predators who are willing to kill the golden goose.

 • Financial gravity is the force no one controls but everyone obeys. Appreciating its realities and laws will help you build stronger.

 • Rather than framing profit as good or bad, define profit as how you contribute to human flourishing.

 • Harder is easier. Rather than viewing principles as a burden, the best leaders see principles as opportunities.

 • Design the business model so the organization prospers only via mission attainment.

Resources Mentioned

Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great • by Eric Ries (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne • (episode 641)

Crafting the Modern Business Plan, with Seth Godin • (episode 704)

Notice Disruption and Innovate Through It, with Steve Blank • (episode 761)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

784: How to Protect the Organization You Love, with Eric Ries

Guy Winch: Mind Over Grind

Guy Winch is a psychologist and bestselling author who advocates for integrating the science of emotional health into our daily lives. His TED talks have attracted over 35 million views, and his books have been translated into more than 30 languages. He is co-host of the Ambie-nominated Dear Therapists podcast and the author of the book Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Some of our parents got to work in the morning, put in a full day, and then by dinner time, didn’t think about work or do it until the next morning. That’s not reality for a lot of us today, so in this conversation, Guy and I explore what you can do to take back your evenings.

Key Points

 • Most work stress isn’t experienced at work.

 • Healthy thinking is intentional and leads us somewhere useful. Unhealthy thinking (rumination) isn’t intentional and tends to repeat the same script. It feels more like unpaid work.

 • To interrupt rumination outside of work, first label it and then associate it with disgust, disdain, and annoyance. Treat it like you would a skunk sitting next to you on the couch.

 • Rituals help our brains make a distinction between time to work and time to recover. Rituals are most powerful when they invoke one or more of our five senses to signal a shift to our brains.

 • Often we think of relaxation and recovery the same way our grandparents did who often did more manual work. Work today tends to be more mental and emotional, so indexing on ways to engage physically during recovery times is helpful.

 • Rather than just assuming that doing nothing, sitting on a beach, or seeing the sights is the best vacation, consider engaging in the things you love that you normally don’t get to do.

Resources Mentioned

Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life • by Guy Winch (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal • (episode 431)

What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb • (episode 438)

How High Achievers Begin to Find Balance, with Michael Hyatt • (episode 522)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

783: How to Take Back Your Evenings, with Guy Winch

Gustavo Razzetti: Forward Talk

Gustavo Razzetti is a culture change instigator, speaker, and CEO of Fearless Culture, a culture design consultancy. He helps leaders build teams that talk about what matters—even when it’s uncomfortable–through his books and tools, including the Culture Design Canvas. He is the author of Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

The beauty of a team is that we can get so much more done with collaboration. It also means that sometimes we surrender our responsibility to others. In this conversation, Gustavo and I explore what to do when a team gets stuck.

Key Points

 • Conversations are the foundation of collaboration. Without them, teams quickly build conversational debt.

 • We don’t stay silent because we’re scared. Rather, we stay quiet because we surrender our responsibility to others.

 • Many of us overestimate our courage. We believe that we’ll say something, but studies show that often we do not.

 • Forward Talk accomplishes two things: (1) addresses the real issue and (2) focuses on the future.

 • See information as an opportunity instead of an obstacle. Courage can begin with admitting what you don’t know.

 • Perspective is the choice to share your views instead of surrendering your judgment to social pressure.

 • Responsibility is a commitment to understand the systemic issues instead of entering into blame.

Resources Mentioned

Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck • by Gustavo Razzetti (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Getting Better at Internal Communication, with Roy Schwartz • (episode 687)

Help Your Team Coach Each Other, with Keith Ferrazzi • (episode 709)

What Really Matters for Team Success, with Colin Fisher • (episode 748)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

782: How to Help a Team Get Unstuck, with Gustavo Razzetti

Bonni Stachowiak: Teaching in Higher Ed

Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

In this reflection episode, Bonni and I look back on recent past episodes and discuss questions, feedback, and insights that have surfaced from recent conversations.

Key Points

Dave responded to this question from Margaret Andrews:

 • What does success look like for you?

“You can have everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want.” -Zig Ziglar

“Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal.” -Earl Nightingale

Bonni responded to this question:

 • What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?

Resources Mentioned

To be of use • by Marge Piercy

Related Episodes

How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen • (episode 143)

Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews • (episode 750)

How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens • (episode 755)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

781: Bonni and Dave Reflect on Recent Episodes

Shirzad Chamine: Positive Intelligence

Shirzad has been the CEO of the largest coach training organization in the world. He has lectured on Positive Intelligence at Stanford University and has trained faculty at Stanford and Yale business schools. He is the author of The New York Times bestseller Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

By overusing our strengths, they can become our weakness. It’s just one of the many ways that leaders self-sabotage. In this conversation, Shirzad and I explore how to shift from self-sabotage to self-mastery.

Key Points

Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them. -Henry David Thoreau

 • We are all a mixed bag of Darth Vader (saboteur) and Jedi knight (sage).

 • By overusing a strength, you turn it into a weakness.

 • Rather than attempting to eliminate all our saboteurs, it’s more helpful to be intentional about quieting them down.

 • The four most common saboteurs that show up for leaders are Controller, Stickler, Hyper Achiever, Hyper Rational.

 • Sage perspective: Every outcome or circumstance can be turned into an opportunity.

 • A 10-second brain shift can help quiet your mind and engage the sage. One way to do this is to rub your fingers together and notice the friction to get your mind out of autopilot.

Resources Mentioned

Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours • by Shirzad Chamine (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Saboteur Assessment
Dave’s assessment results

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr • (episode 232)

The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph • (episode 734)

How to See What’s Holding You Back, with Marty Dubin • (episode 765)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

780: Moving From Self-Sabotage to Self-Mastery, with Shirzad Chamine

Nilofer Merchart: Our Best Work

Nilofer Merchant is ranked among the world’s top management thinkers by Thinkers50 and is the founder of The Intangible Labs, where she defines the leading indicators of modern work. She’s launched more than 100 products totaling $18B in revenue, and her TED Talk, Sitting Is the Smoking of Our Generation, ranks in the top 10% of all TED Talks. She is the author of Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When bad behavior happens in an organization, it’s the job of the leader to address it. In this conversation, Nilofer and I explore the strategies and tactics that will help you do this with clarity and effectiveness.

Key Points

 • Bad behavior isn’t just “bad apples” – it’s also the organizational norms of “the barrel” that reinforce these behaviors.

 • Most management norms are not persuasive; they are persistent.

 • Begin by getting clarity on what’s acceptable and what’s not.

 • Interrupt behavior without escalation. Consider phrases like, “Ouch,” or “I don’t know if you mean to…” or, “Did you intend that to be hurtful?”

 • Culture is not defined by words on the wall—it’s defined by what happens when someone crosses the line.

 • Ask everyone to enforce norms, not just the person who was harmed.

Resources Mentioned

Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us • by Nilofer Merchant (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier • (episode 458)

How to Respond Better When Challenged, with Dolly Chugh • (episode 615)

Being Nice May Not Be Kind, with Graham Allcott • (episode 767)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

779: How to Address Bad Behavior, with Nilofer Merchant

Marcus Buckingham: Design Love In

Marcus Buckingham is the author of two of the best-selling business books of all time and has three of Harvard Business Review’s most circulated, industry-changing cover articles. After spending two decades studying excellence at the Gallup Organization and co-creating the StrengthsFinder tool, he built his own Coaching + Education firm and has been a prominent researcher on strengths, love, and leadership at work. He is the author of Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most everyone who listens to this podcast wants to go way beyond just hitting numbers and achieving goals. In addition to that, we want so deeply to see the people the work with flourish in their careers. In this conversation, Marcus and I explore the sequence of five feelings that make this work – and why a lot of it comes down to love.

Key Points

 • Love dies, not from being killed – but from forgetting and neglect.

 • The difference is massive in what we give a top rating to and everything else.

 • Love is the deep and unwavering commitment to the flourishing of a human.

 • Shift from leaders making decisions to leaders making experiences.

The five feelings follow this sequence:

 1. Control

 2. Harmony

 3. Significance

 4. Warmth of others

 5. Growth

Resources Mentioned

Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business • by Marcus Buckingham (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )*

Design Love In
Lovethat.com

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Lead Top-Line Growth, with Tim Sanders • (episode 299)

Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings • (episode 692)

Clarifying Values for a Workplace People Love, with Anne Chow • (episode 712)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

778: How to Help People Flourish, with Marcus Buckingham

Anthony Klotz: Jolted

Anthony Klotz is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management at the UCL School of Management. He is the person who both predicted and coined the term “The Great Resignation,” and his groundbreaking research on quitting, work design, and employee performance has made him a leading voice on the future of work. He is the author of Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most of us have attempted to support an employee dealing with a tough career moment. Not all the time, but certainly sometimes, we see those moments coming. When an employee is dealing with a big jolt – or about to – this conversation with Anthony will show you how to help.

Key Points

 • Jolts have an outsized influence on people’s overall relationship with their work.

 • Managers play a deciding role in how people respond to jolts and are in the best position to insulate the negative effects and amplify the positive effects.

 • Managers can often anticipate and predict jolts to employees. The plans leaders have often become the jolts that others experience.

 • If people can make sense of a jolting event, they are better able to deal with it constructively.

 • The perception of how fair an event is and how fair the process was leading up to the event massively impacts how people perceive it.

 • A clear explanation of why change is happening and what it means can substantially minimize the negative effects of career jolts.

 • The tendency for organizations to delay bad news often is counterproductive to helping managers and employees navigate jolts.

 • Partnership with others (managers, friends, family members) helps most of us better process what we might otherwise attempt to do alone.

Resources Mentioned

Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters • (
Amazon • , 
Bookshop • )* by Anthony Klotz

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy • (episode 571)

How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke • (episode 607)

Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems, with Elizabeth Lotardo • (episode 764)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

777: How to Help Employees Handle Tough Moments, with Anthony Klotz

Edith Eger: The Choice

Edith Eger was one of the last Holocaust survivors to remember the horrors of the camps. She was a renowned psychologist and speaker who specialized in treating patients with traumatic stress disorders. Edith is author of the book, The Choice: Embrace the Possible*.

Edith was 90 years old when this episode was recorded. She passed away in 2026 at age 98.

Key Points

 • It’s not what happens in life, it’s what we do with it.

 • The power we have is to choose to respond, not react.

 • Sometimes seemingly insignificant worries are emblematic of greater pain.

 • If you hate a person, they don’t suffer — you do. There’s nothing wrong with anger, it’s how you channel it.

 • Underneath anger is a lot of pain.

Resources Mentioned

The Choice: Embrace the Possible • * by Edith Eger

Man’s Search for Meaning • * by Viktor E. Frankl

Book Notes

Download my highlights from The Choice in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Everyday People, Extraordinary Leaders: Olivia Klaus • (episode 103)

Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do, with Amy Morin • (episode 204)

How to Overcome Obstacles, with Collins Osayamwen • (episode 281)

Growth Mindset Helps You Rise From the Ashes, with Jeff Hittenberger • (episode 326)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

336: The Choice for Compassion, with Edith Eger

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