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Studio BOTH/AND

True Crime Bullsh** is a serialized, investigative podcast that aims to identify the missing victims of serial killer Israel Keyes. Host Josh Hallmark has spent close to a decade combing through FBI files, analyzing interrogation videos, and working with experts in the field in this comprehensive and ground-breaking podcast.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

True Crime Bullsh**

In this interview:
• The FBI discuss Keyes's competency and psych evals
• Keyes details the creation of his silencer
• Keyes discusses various accounts of stalking
• Keyes shares his grand plan and dreams of doing something big

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Slovenia
https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/slovenia/slovenia-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2027

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Coveron: Coveron.com/TCB with code TCB for 20% off (for the first 100 users)
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns. 
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order. 
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Israel Keyes Interview: April 30, 2012

In this interview:
• Keyes tells the FBI about a New York homicide
• Keyes details the Tupper Lake bank robbery
• Keyes talks about other active areas in New England
• The FBI finds out about the boat

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns. 
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order. 
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Israel Keyes Interview: May 16, 2012 - Part 2

In this interview:
• The FBI detail their four part plan to negotiate their needs and Keyes's
• Keyes accidentally hints at several details surrounding his unknown crimes
• Keyes grapples with media attention
• Keyes starts to spill

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns. 
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order. 
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Israel Keyes Interview: May 16, 2012 - Part 1

In this interview:
• The FBI goes over items seized from Spurr Lane and Constable
• Keyes's early years in Neah Bay
• Keyes's early crimes in Colville
• Keyes's various watercraft and how he used them in crimes
• Keyes's using friends as unwitting accomplices
• The Washington state caches
• Julie Harris
• and more

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns. 
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order. 
 

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Israel Keyes Interview: October 30, 2012

In Retrospective 4, Josh discusses how massive life changes coalesced with the creation of the first season of TCB. How he isolated himself entirely to both heal and get into the head-spaces of the people he'd spent so much time researching and writing about. Plus, what went into creating the season one finale.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Retrospective 4: Voices

In Retrospective 3, Josh discusses how 24 harrowing hours changed his life and the course of True Crime Bullsh**. He discusses how an incident re-shaped his vision for the first episode of the podcast, and his view on true crime and its darkness. Plus, the impact of that first episode on listeners, and the impact of those listeners on Josh.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Retrospective 3: Darkness

Retrospective 2 takes us to the origin of the investigation; where Josh's interest in storytelling evolved into his obsession of needing to know everything. And it started in a surprising place: a bound book of correspondence between two teenage girls and their landlord. What started as comedic found writing, became a mystery that people could not let go. And as Josh made his way through it, while working on TCB, he learned about investigations and their repercussions.

This is parts one and two of The Karen & Ellen Letters, Josh's first full-fledged investigation.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

Cast:
Sara Stapleton as Karen
Sara Kitcher as Ellen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Matt Peelen as Rob

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS. 
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Retrospective 2: Investigations

To celebrate 10 years in podcasting, we're spending the summer going back in time and both highlighting key episodes and telling the stories behind them; you’ll get new behind-the-scenes information about what was happening in life, in various investigations, and in the world that impacted these important episodes and their podcasts. You’ll learn how Josh started podcasting, how he started investigating Israel Keyes, some hilarious and terrifying stories from the road, and some really vulnerable and personal stories.

We start our first retrospective at, duh, the beginning. Josh shares how both his podcasting journey and Keyes obsession began. He discusses his time in Seattle and on the Olympic Peninsula, how he ended up on the East Coast, his first deep-dive investigation (not Keyes) and how that led to his second (Keyes).

And this kicks off an early episode of his very first show, Our Americana, entitled Van Life. 

TROVA TRIP to The Galapagos Islands:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Retrospective 1: The Ignition

Season finale.
TCB will be back in October. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With additional research by Michelle Tooker, Shana Wilensky, and Jordan Taylor.

Sources include:
• KARK.com
• 4029TV.com
• The Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette

SPONSORS:
• Factor: 50% poff and free breakfast for a year. 
• Quince: Free shipping and 265-day returns. 
• BetterHelp: Get 10% off. 
• HelloFresh: Get 10 free meals and a free zwilling knife.

This episode was made possible by the following Patreon producers:
Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, Sara Cee, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Virginia Williams, Carrie, Jeff, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Melissa Tracchia, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Troccola, Trixie

To support the investigation, go to www.patreon.com/studiobothand

This episode included music by:
Whithe, Sero, LaBon, and Sergey Cheremisinov
With featured music by: Sigur Ros

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

0714 | Changes

The team returns to Texas to look at a case, which Jordan has been following for four years, that involves a suspicious death, an arson, and an abandoned house. And this case may just shed light on some of Keyes's odder travels and some new and unsettling information on the Azle bank robbery.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Jordan Taylor. 
With editing and writing by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research assistance by: Michelle Tooker. 

TROVA TRIP TO COSTA RICA:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi 
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand 

SPONSORS:
• Factor: Get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year, by using code TCBS50OFF at factor.com/tcbs50off
• Quince: Get free shipping at www.Quince.com/TCBS
• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCB
• BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at www.BetterHelp.com/TCB

SOURCES
• Houston Police Department Casefile, Case #030249612
• FBI interview with Israel Keyes: 07/12/12
• Harris County Office of Forensic Sciences Report 12-0671
• Houston Fire Department Report 12-0680736
• HOUSTON, TX Weather History | Weather underground. (n.d.). https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/KHOU/date/2012-3-9
• Pinkerton, J. (2014, April 5). HPD sergeant fired, 7 other disciplined in murder case probe. Chon. Retrieved May 26, 2025, from https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/HPD-sergeant-fired-7-others-disciplined-in-5377253.php
• Pearson, L. (n.d.). Who came up with HPD’s “SL” code that suspended 264K cases? Panel identifies former assistant chief. https://abc13.com/amp/post/houston-police-suspended-cases-what-is-sl-code-lack-of-personnel-donald-mckinney/14822151/
• FBI interview with Israel Keyes: 07/10/2012
• James E. Lankford. (2011). Peak DB SPL of various Firearms (5 Miyara, F. (n.d.). A NOTE ON FIRECRACKER’S NOISE. https://www.fceia.unr.edu.ar/acustica/biblio/firecr1.htm
• In J Am Acad Audiology (Vol. 22, pp. 93–103). https://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/fileShot%20of%20Prevention%20extra%20handout.pdf
• Miyara, F. (n.d.). A NOTE ON FIRECRACKER’S NOISE. https://www.fceia.unr.edu.ar/acustica/biblio/firecr1.htm
• Azele Police Dept Case # 2012-961

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie, Melissa Tracchia.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

0713 | Houston

New information about Keyes and his whereabouts sheds new light on an old case. Plus, Keyes gets caught in a few lies about his kill kits.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With additional research by Becca Cline, Shana Wilensky and Michelle Tooker;
research assistance by Andrew French and Michelle Kaszuba. 

Resources include:

The Charley Project
NAMUS
The Burlington Free Press
The Sentinel Source
The Rutland Daily Herald
CommonsNews.org; AND
Reformer.com //

Music by: William Hellfire, Laura Sheeran, Amulets, Whithe, Lee Rosevere and Daniel Birch, Chris Zabriskie, Puddle of Infinity, and Radical Face //

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

0314 | Follow the Hurricanes

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