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Bloomberg

Money goes where it's treated best. That simple truth is a big reason why more and more money—trillions, in fact—flows into a powerful, low-cost tool that's quietly transformed investing in recent years. Exchange-traded funds, or ETFs, let you invest in everything from the stock market to gold like never before. This biweekly podcast will demystify them—and delight you in the process.

Trillions

Let's be honest, Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) ETFs probably aren't going to make you blush or quicken your pulse. But they can be extremely practical in a portfolio. Typically known for their ability to generate income, this category of ETFs has seen rapid evolution of late with new entrants that focus on areas such as data centers. It's also made picking the right REIT ETF all the more confusing since there's now dozens of them.

On this episode of Trillions, Eric and Joel are joined by REIT trader David Auerbach of World Equity Group as well as Kevin Kelly, a managing partner of Benchmark Investments, the index provider for a few of the new REIT entrants. They discuss the basics of REITs, the pros and cons of category king $VNQ as well as the new generation of REIT ETFs such as $SRVR, $HOMZ, $NETL and, what else, $REIT.

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The REIT Stuff

It's pretty safe to say that 2024 was the best year ever for ETFs. The industry saw record flows of $1 trillion, a record 670 new launches and a 30% jump in assets- not to mention that record smashing bitcoin ETF launch. So how do you top that?
 
On this episode of Trillions Joel and Eric host a roundtable discussion on highlights from 2024 as well as predictions for 2025 with Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, Vildana Hajric, reporter with Bloomberg News and Athanasios Psarofagis, ETF Analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence.

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2024: A Year to Remember

Gold or Bitcoin? The answer to that question—as always—depends on whom you ask. Yet the response will regularly be a passionate one. The exchange-traded fund has played an enormous role in making both assets more accessible, part of the reason 2024 was such a banner year. With the debut of spot Bitcoin ETFs and Donald Trump’s election (given his embrace cryptocurrency during the campaign), we now look to what the new year means for both.
 
On this episode of Trillions, recorded at Bloomberg’s “ETFs in Depth” event on Dec. 12 in New York, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber discuss the two sectors with Simeon Hyman of ProShares, David Lavalle of Grayscale and George Million-Stanley of State Street Global Advisors. The group explores gold and Bitcoin as a store of value, how each asset can benefit investors and even how the two can coexist in a single portfolio. They also discuss what to make of Trump’s recent enthusiasm for crypto and how their companies are preparing for the incoming administration.

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The Gold Versus Bitcoin Debate

Will the first private credit exchange-traded fund launch in 2025? How many new crypto-related ETFs will come to market this year? And how will the battle of the S&P 500 funds shake out? Will BlackRock’s iShares Core S&P 500 ETF cut fees in an effort to stop Vanguard’s S&P 500 ETF from passing State Street’s SPDR S&P 500 ETF in assets? 
 
On this episode of Trillions, the discussion leaves no stone unturned. Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber—along with cross-asset reporter Vildana Hajric—grill Nate Geraci, president of The ETF Store, over his five big predictions for 2025. The heated debate also explores single-stock ETFs and a maneuver called “351 exchanges.”

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Five ETF Predictions for 2025

Municipal bonds are the foundation of how American cities and states operate. And a big reason investors love “munis” is their tax-free status. But if you think that makes muni exchange-traded funds sound boring, think again.
 
On this episode, Eric and Joel speak with Eric Kazatsky, head of municipal strategy at Bloomberg Intelligence and co-host of the podcast Masters of the Muniverse. They discuss the storied history of munis, how they figure into portfolios—and how that favored tax-free status could be at risk in President Donald Trump’s second term.

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A Quiet, Tax-Free Haven Is Braced for Change

There’s something special about the US stock market these days—it’s almost beyond comprehension how it keeps kicking out consistently big returns. Sure, other markets have nice runs now and again, but they’re usually short-lived and almost microscopic compared to the US. Why is that? And how long can this level of dominance last?
 
On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber speak with Steve Hou, a quantitative researcher at Bloomberg Indices, who’s written a number of white papers on innovation, pricing power and turnaround companies. They discuss why US companies are rewarded for innovation while companies elsewhere are not, how to measure and invest in a successful strategy, which attributes make US corporate culture and its economy unique and where the competition is going to come from in the future.

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Captain America: A Brave New ETF World

European stocks are off to a strong start this year—one of their best ever in fact and easily beating the US market. But can it last? Will US tech stocks come roaring back again? And are there any reasons to invest in Europe besides stocks there just being “cheap?”
 
On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber speak with Gina Martin Adams, Bloomberg Intelligence’s chief equity strategist, and Todd Sohn, senior exchange-traded fund and technical strategist at Strategas Securities. They discuss Europe’s fundamentals, the market’s limitations and why it’s outperforming now.

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The Case for Europe

First Trust, the sixth-largest issuer of US exchange-traded funds, has managed to stay mostly under the radar in the investing world — and yet it's also perfected a lucrative, Vanguard-proof business model. The company's products are directed more at financial advisors than the retail world, and their funds, most of which are actively managed, have higher fees than typical index-tracking ETFs. Enter the First Trust sales force, which wields steak dinners, personal coaching, sports tickets and Hermès scarves to win business — practices that have attracted the attention of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.
 
On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber speak with Bloomberg News reporters Emily Graffeo and Max Abelson about their recent First Trust story, “An All-American Finance Empire Drew Billions—and a Regulator’s Attention,” for Bloomberg Businessweek. They discuss CEO Jim Bowen's approach, how the company has distinguished itself from competitors, and why Finra is investigating the company's sales tactics.

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How First Trust Became a Quiet Force in ETFs

This is not your grandfather’s exchange-traded fund industry. What started as boring, predictable and passive has morphed into strategies and packaged trades being packed into new ETFs. These include leverage, options overlays and private assets. Given all of this upheaval, some from the old school are worried investors aren’t receiving the exposure and protection from issuers they think they are.
 
On this episode of Trillions, Joel Weber and Eric Balchunas talk to ETF veteran and author Dave Nadig about his buzzworthy blog post in which he borrows language from the hacker world, describing ETFs as “black hat” versus “white hat.” To figure out what these developments mean for the industry, they are joined by cross-asset reporter Vildana Hajric.

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Black Hat vs White Hat ETFs

In the aftermath of President Donald Trump’s April 2 “Liberation Day,” stock markets around the world plunged. Yet just 13 hours after Trump’s tariffs took effect, the president paused them for 90 days — for countries not named China, that is.
 
Markets soared in response to Trump’s backpedaling. The S&P 500 Index climbed almost 10% while the Nasdaq Composite Index jumped by the most since 2001. The Trump put, or the belief that the president uses the stock market as his scoreboard, appears to be alive and well after all.
 
On this episode of Trillions, Eric Balchunas and Joel Weber discuss what just happened, how ETFs fared and where cracks appeared. They also assess flows, volume and what to watch next.

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The Return of the Trump Put

While most of the money flowing into exchange-traded funds goes into the cheaper ones, investors are willing to pay up for certain things. And after all, ETF issuers have to pay the bills somehow. Figuring out how to price an ETF so it’s both appealing to investors and generates revenue is one of the more unsung arts of the industry. 
 
On this episode, Joel and Eric speak with Athanasios Psarofagis, an ETF analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence, and Bloomberg reporter Katie Greifeld about BI’s recent ETF revenue study, which includes a breakdown of fee income generated by issuers and individual products. The conversation also touches on whether the rise of passive investing has impacted markets in the way some observers say. 

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The Unsung Art of the ETF Industry

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