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Joe Saul-Sehy and Josh ‘OG’ Bannerman

Named Best Personal Finance Podcast by Bankrate.com and Kiplinger — and the only podcast the Plutus Awards retired from competition after winning twice — The Stacking Benjamins Show is personal finance that doesn’t put you to sleep.

Hosts Joe Saul-Sehy (former 16-year financial advisor, ex-WXYZ-TV “Money Man”) and Josh “OG” Bannerman, CFP (Certified Financial Planner, Bannerman Wealth) sit around the card table in Joe’s mom’s half-finished basement in Texarkana and talk money with the smartest guests in personal finance, investing, and behavioral economics. As Fast Company wrote, the show “strikes a great balance of fun and functional.”

Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday: expert guests, real headlines, listener questions, and Doug’s trivia. Topics include investing, retirement planning, budgeting, real estate, behavioral finance, taxes, and financial independence — for anyone who wants to be smarter about money without being talked down to.

Subscribe to The 201 — the free newsletter that goes deeper than the show — at stackingbenjamins.com/201

The Stacking Benjamins Show

Everyone wants to know the magic savings number. Is it 10%? 15%? Half your paycheck while eating ketchup packets in the woods?

In this Memorial Day basement hangout, Joe, OG, Doug, and Len Penzo cut through the personal finance nonsense and tackle the real question:

How much should YOU actually save?

Instead of guilt trips and impossible rules, the crew breaks down how real people build wealth while still enjoying life along the way. From automation tricks to lifestyle creep to using raises strategically, this episode is packed with practical ways to grow your savings without becoming financially miserable.

Plus:

 • Why most savings advice completely falls apart in real life
 • The easiest way to increase your savings rate
 • How automation quietly builds wealth
 • Why your income matters more than coupon clipping
 • The surprising power of “future you”
 • Estate planning basics you absolutely should not ignore
 • Why beneficiary forms matter more than your will
 • Doug learns what “intestate” means… and thankfully it’s less gross than he thought

Whether you’re just getting started or trying to level up your financial plan, this episode helps you stop chasing perfect numbers and start building momentum.

Key Takeaways

 • Why there’s no “perfect” savings rate
 • How to increase savings without wrecking your lifestyle
 • The psychological mistake that keeps people from saving
 • Why small automated habits beat big dramatic changes
 • The best places to find extra money fast
 • How raises can supercharge wealth building
 • The truth about lifestyle creep
 • Estate planning basics everyone needs
 • What happens if your beneficiaries are outdated
 • Why trusts aren’t just for wealthy people 

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Featured Tools, Guides & Resources

The Vault Budgeting App • Simplify budgeting, subscriptions, spending, and automation.
 • 👉 stackingbenjamins.com/vault
Benjamins After Dark (BAD) Groups • Meet other Stackers in your area for accountability, networking, and money conversations.
 • 👉 stackingbenjamins.com/BAD
Stacking Benjamins Basics Guide • Free guide covering financial basics, estate planning, tax planning, and more.
 • 👉 stackingbenjamins.com/basicsguide
Len Penzo’s Blog & Book • Len’s financial writing and his book 
True Money Stories • .
 • 👉 lenpenzo.com
Retirement Calculators • The crew strongly recommends experimenting with retirement calculators to understand how compound growth changes your future savings needs.
AI Tools for Financial Organization • OG discusses using AI tools like Perplexity to:
 • Review leases
 • Analyze property tax appeals
 • Organize financial documents
 • Build research prompts

Articles, Topics & Concepts Referenced

 • FIRE Movement (Financial Independence Retire Early)
 • Lifestyle Creep
 • Automation & Auto-Investing
 • 401(k) Auto-Increase Strategies
 • Estate Planning
 • Beneficiary Audits
 • Trusts vs. Wills
 • Probate Basics
 • Healthcare Directives
 • Durable Power of Attorney
 • Tax-Smart Retirement Withdrawals

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How Much Should You Really Save Without Hating Your Life? SB1846

Prices are up. Budgets are tighter. And people are making some surprising choices about what stays and what goes. The woman skipping the new laptop and the graduation dress is still booked for a Disney cruise, a Bruno Mars concert, and a trip to Lake Erie. It turns out inflation doesn't just squeeze your wallet -- it forces a conversation about what you actually value. Joe, OG, Paula Pant, and Doc G dig into where people are drawing the line, why experiences outlast stuff in the happiness research, and what each of them refuses to give up no matter what.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why people cut the easy stuff first -- and why that strategy relieves anxiety without actually solving the budget problem
 • The research behind experiences vs. stuff: why the memory of a trip gets rosier over time while objects depreciate in more ways than one
 • Doc G's spending happiness continuum -- from stuff to experiences to becoming a better version of yourself, and why the last one costs the least
 • Why OG's DoorDash experiment was a two out of ten in year-to-date success -- and why four people pulling the rudder in the other direction matters
 • The "build from zero" budget reframe that feels more empowering than cutting from the top down
 • One roundtable member's rule that nothing is ever truly off the table when cash gets tight -- including the house and the private school
 • What each panelist will never go cheap on -- and one answer involving prescription medications that lands differently than you'd expect
 • The expenses that are dead to each of them -- and where Joe, OG, Paula, and Doc G land on first class flights and DoorDash
 • Why the client who cut all Christmas spending had the best holiday season of their life
 • Papa John's quarterly earnings data that tells you exactly how inflation is changing behavior at the menu level

Why This Matters Now

If you're in your 40s and you've started quietly trimming things -- streaming services, delivery apps, clothing budgets -- but haven't touched the bigger stuff, this episode names what's actually happening. The question isn't whether to cut. It's whether the things you're cutting are the ones that matter least. That's a values conversation, not a math conversation, and this roundtable is one of the better ones the basement has had.

From the Basement

Joe, OG, Paula Pant, and Doc G dig into a Wall Street Journal piece on how Americans are changing their spending habits -- and the conversation quickly becomes about what money is actually for. OG reports that his attempt to eliminate DoorDash from the family budget has been going poorly. Doc G went to Bali in coach. The year-long trivia competition takes a dramatic turn as OG's precise mathematical reasoning leads everyone to the wrong answer -- and Doc G wins by going lower. Johnny Carson's guest host strategy turns out to be the missing variable nobody accounted for.

Resources Mentioned

 • Wall Street Journal -- "Where Americans Are Drawing the Line on Price Increases" by Rachel Wolff; linked at stackingbenjamins.com
 • Afford Anything podcast -- Paula Pant; Joe joins most Tuesdays for listener Q&A
 • Earn and Invest podcast -- Doc G (Jordan Grumet); recent episode with Carrie Jorn Grimes on The Joy of Money
 • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- stackingbenjamins.com/vault
 • Stacking Benjamins Community -- stackingbenjamins.com/basement

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Where Are You Drawing the Line? How Smart Spenders Decide What to Cut and What to Keep (SB1845)

Every family knows the feeling. You spend $1,000 to get everyone to the happiest place on Earth, and by 1:30 someone's crying, someone's sunburned, and somebody just paid $18 for a hotdog. Robert Niles from Theme Park Insider (the site that Robert jokes AI is pulling all its theme park data from) comes back to the basement to help you avoid that fate. This year he's also got strong opinions on which park is winning summer 2026, and it's not the one you'd expect.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why the biggest theme park mistake families make has nothing to do with the park -- and everything to do with who's in the crew going with you
 • Which park Robert says is winning summer 2026 -- including a brand-new attraction that combines rollercoaster, dark ride, and water ride into one experience
 • The quick game: lightning lane passes, VIP tours, park hoppers, character breakfasts, fireworks packages, meal plans -- worth it, skip it, or depends?
 • Why Tokyo DisneySea is boss-level theme parking -- and the specific 10-minute window that determines whether you get on the top rides or wait four hours
 • The sleeper parks most families overlook -- including one with a water park included in the ticket price and another that Herschend hasn't bought yet
 • How to use the Theme Park Insider community to find the actual strategy for any park before you arrive -- written by real visitors, not AI
 • Why sit-down air-conditioned lunch in the middle of a hot park day might be the best $40 you spend all summer
 • The over-planning trap -- and why having a plan matters less than being willing to abandon it
 • What a Netflix show taught CNBC about health insurance deductibles -- and why one in four Gen Z adults still doesn't know what a deductible actually is
 • The HSA trap hiding inside high-deductible health plans -- and why choosing the cheaper plan can end up costing you far more

Why This Matters Now

Summer is when families spend real money on experiences that either become great memories or expensive regrets. A little planning separates the two more than most people think -- and the same principle applies to health insurance. Both conversations in this episode are about making sure the money you spend on your family actually delivers what you paid for.

From the Basement

Robert Niles from Theme Park Insider joins Joe and OG to kick off summer 2026 -- and Joe finally confesses that going to Dollywood last year changed his life. The headline segment tackles a CNBC piece inspired by the Netflix show Beef, which turns into a genuinely useful conversation about deductibles, HSAs, max-out-of-pocket numbers, and when the high-deductible plan is actually the wrong choice. Doug arrives with Formula Rossa trivia and a strongly worded editorial about what counts as a complete meal. The back porch features perhaps the best parenting post the basement has ever produced.

Resources Mentioned

 • Theme Park Insider -- themeparkinsider.com; reviews, trip planning guides, and community discussion boards
 • Beef on Netflix -- referenced for the deductible explainer segment
 • CNBC health insurance article by Annie Nova -- linked at stackingbenjamins.com
 • Stacking Benjamins Newsletter (The 201) -- stackingbenjamins.com/201
 • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- stackingbenjamins.com/vault
 • Stacking Benjamins Community -- stackingbenjamins.com/basement

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How to Plan the Perfect Theme Park Trip Without Wasting Your Money or Your Day (SB1844)

You wake up, check your portfolio, and realize one stock has quietly become your entire retirement plan. Maybe it came from an employee stock purchase plan. Maybe Grandma left you a pile of Apple shares. Maybe you bought NVIDIA in 2012 because you liked the graphics card and forgot about it. However you got here, the problem is the same: one company now owns you. Joe and OG walk through exactly how to unwind it -- slowly, tax-efficiently, and without making the emotional decisions that cost people the most money.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • The four ways people end up with concentrated stock -- and which one has the easiest fix that most people skip entirely
 • Why inheriting stock is actually the best time to diversify -- and the step-up in basis rule that eliminates most of the tax bill
 • The conveyor belt strategy for employee stock purchase plans that keeps you collecting the discount without piling up company risk
 • Why "I'll just grow around it" almost never works -- and the math behind why your stock tends to outpace your ability to diversify around it
 • The question Joe asked every client in this situation: which outcome would upset you least -- and why that's the right starting point
 • RSUs as a paycheck, not a loyalty pledge -- and the mental reframe that makes it easier to sell
 • What the Merck/Vioxx story teaches about why the tax bill is almost never the real reason to hold concentrated stock
 • When a slow systematic sell makes sense versus ripping the Band-Aid -- and how to decide which one you can actually live with
 • The estate planning mistake that turns a free inheritance into a massive capital gains bill -- and why the $1 trick backfires every time
 • The insurance planning framework OG and Anna walk through: life, disability, long-term care, and property/casualty -- including the umbrella policy most people skip

Why This Matters Now

If you've spent years building something -- through your career, through conviction, through an inheritance -- the last thing you want is to lose it all because one company had a bad quarter. The diversification conversation feels complicated, but the framework is simpler than most people think. The hard part isn't knowing what to do. It's making the decision when the stock is moving and your emotions are loud.

From the Basement

Joe and OG dig into concentrated stock risk -- how people get there, what it actually costs them, and the five strategies for getting out without making it worse. OG and Anna return for episode two of their financial basics series with a full insurance planning walkthrough -- including the disability insurance gap most people don't know they have. Doug arrives with Mount St. Helens trivia and a dryer situation that may or may not involve auto parts. Stacker Molly's car repair HSA story gets a full investigation and a satisfying resolution.

Resources Mentioned

 • Stacking Benjamins Basics Guide -- season one and season two workbooks free at stackingbenjamins.com/basicsguide
 • Stacking Benjamins Newsletter (The 201) -- stackingbenjamins.com/201
 • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- stackingbenjamins.com/vault
 • Stacking Benjamins Community -- stackingbenjamins.com/basement
 • Yahoo Finance / CNBC insider trading tracker -- referenced for monitoring executive stock sales

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Too Much of One Stock? How to Diversify Without Blowing Up Your Tax Bill (SB1843)

What actually separates people who build lasting wealth from everyone else? Not the tips. Not the apps. The habits. Joe put the question to a panel of financial planners, coaches, and bloggers -- and turned it into a game. Seven habits, three rounds, two points up for grabs. Monica Scudieri, who paid off $257,000 in debt and reached financial independence in 10 years, joined OG and Jesse Cramer to find out how well the conventional wisdom matches what actually works.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • The seven millionaire habits Kiplinger identified -- and which ones the panel nailed, missed, and argued about
 • Why continuously educating yourself about money remains one of the highest-leverage habits at any income level
 • The networking truth wealthy people understand that most people don't -- and why "who not how" changes everything about how you approach your career and finances
 • Monica's story: how she turned a divorce, $257,000 in debt, and three rounds of unemployment into financial independence in a decade
 • Why living below your means isn't about deprivation -- it's about creating the margin that makes every other habit possible
 • The pay yourself first argument that actually holds up when your budget is genuinely tight
 • Why OG thinks waking up early is the worst advice in personal finance -- and what he thinks actually matters instead
 • The book recommendations that shaped each panelist's financial philosophy -- including a deep dive on why passive investing still wins
 • Why diversifying your income streams landed on the millionaire habits list -- and what that looks like in practice
 • The complete list of seven habits, revealed at the end -- including the two the panel never guessed

Why This Matters Now

Millionaire habits get discussed constantly and followed inconsistently. The gap isn't usually knowledge -- it's the unsexy reality that these habits have to run in the background for years before the results become visible. This roundtable is worth listening to not because the list is surprising, but because the people talking about it have actually lived it.

From the Basement

Joe, OG, Jesse Cramer, and Monica Scudieri from Grab Your Slice play two rounds of the millionaire habits game while the year-long trivia competition quietly shifts -- Monica guesses closest on a 1940 McDonald's complete meal price and earns Paula Pant's first point in a while. OG extends his lead. Jesse goes 0 for the day and seems fine about it. Doug intervenes on the trivia question to add a milkshake, which turns out to be decisive.

Resources Mentioned

 • Grab Your Slice of Financial Independence by Monica Scudieri -- available wherever books are sold
 • Monica Scudieri financial coaching -- schedule a free 30-minute call at 
grabyourslice.com • Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors -- Jesse Cramer's podcast, wherever you listen; upcoming two-part series on the 14 risks retirees face
 • Automatic Wealth by Michael Masterson -- recommended by Monica as her foundational book
 • A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel -- recommended by Jesse
 • The War of Art by Steven Pressfield and Essentialism by Greg McKeown -- recommended by OG
 • The Truth About Money by Ric Edelman -- recommended by Joe
 • Networking With the Affluent by Dr. Thomas Stanley -- referenced in discussion
 • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/vault • Stacking Benjamins Community -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/basement • Stacking Benjamins "Benjamins After Dark" Meetups -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/BAD

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Habits That Actually Make Millionaires (SB1842)

Thirty years ago Beth Kobliner wrote the book that a generation of financial planners handed to their clients' kids. The core advice still holds. But the world around it has changed dramatically -- frictionless spending, gambling apps disguised as investment platforms, and a housing market where the average first-time buyer is now 40. Beth comes back to the basement with an updated edition of Get a Financial Life and a clear-eyed take on what's harder now, what's easier, and what was always just common sense.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why the shift to invisible, frictionless money has made spending harder to track -- and the two-week experiment that fixes it without turning into a second job
 • The yours, mine, and ours account system for couples where one person saves and one person spends -- and why autonomy is the key to avoiding money resentment
 • Why putting a price tag on your goals changes your spending behavior more than any budget ever will
 • The biggest mistake first-time home buyers make right now -- and the math on why a 10% down payment often beats waiting for 20%
 • Used versus new car: the $20,000 gap that makes the decision simple -- and the negotiation script that puts you in control at the dealership
 • Student loan reality check for 2026 -- what's changing by July, where to run the numbers, and who qualifies for public service loan forgiveness now that it's actually working
 • Why paying off a 22% credit card is mathematically equivalent to earning 22% guaranteed -- and what that means for how you prioritize your money
 • The gambling platform statistic that should alarm every parent of a 20-something: 25% of Gen Z and millennials consider online gambling an investment
 • The annuity conversation most advisors won't have honestly -- what they're actually selling, what the fees really cover, and the two use cases where they might actually make sense
 • Why an annuity inside an IRA is, in OG's words, an abomination -- and the three questions to ask before signing anything

Why This Matters Now

Whether you're in your 40s and wishing you'd read this at 22, or you're handing it to someone who just graduated, the fundamentals Beth laid out three decades ago are still the fastest path to financial stability. What's changed is the noise around them -- and the sophistication of the products and platforms designed to get in the way.

From the Basement

Beth Kobliner joins Joe and OG to walk through the 30th anniversary edition of Get a Financial Life -- covering homes, cars, student loans, debt, and the new financial traps that didn't exist in 1996. The headline segment digs into a CNBC piece on why retirees are thinking about annuities wrong, which turns into one of the more honest annuity conversations the basement has had. Doug arrives with Spice Girls trivia that everyone over 35 finds embarrassingly easy. The meatloaf debate breaks out at the end and resolves nothing.

Resources Mentioned

 • Get a Financial Life by Beth Kobliner -- 30th anniversary edition available wherever books are sold
 • Beth Kobliner -- 
bethkobliner.com • studentaid.gov -- loan simulator and repayment plan options
 • Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book -- invoice price research before car negotiations; 
edmunds.com • , 
kbb.com • CARFAX -- used car history reports; 
carfax.com • Carvana, Autotrader, CarGurus -- used car shopping platforms
 • CNBC annuities article by Greg Iacurci -- linked at stackingbenjamins.com
 • JP Morgan Guide to the Markets -- referenced in discussion; search "JP Morgan Guide to the Markets"
 • Stacking Benjamins Newsletter (The 201) -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/201 • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- s
tackingbenjamins.com/vault • Stacking Benjamins Meetups -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/meetup • Stacking Benjamins Community -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/basement

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Beth Kobliner on the Money Basics That Still Work 30 Years Later (and the New Traps Nobody Warned You About) SB1841

A new study just confirmed what most people in their 40s already feel but rarely say out loud: running out of money is scarier than death. Gen X is leading that number at 73% -- and the reasons why make a lot of sense when you look at what that generation is actually navigating. No pensions. Rising costs. Longer retirements. Markets that never seem to settle. Joe, OG, and Len Penzo dig into the data, the psychology, and the practical steps that actually move the needle.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why Gen X is more worried about retirement than either baby boomers or millennials -- and the pension gap that explains most of it
 • The Social Security stress test OG recommends for every retirement plan -- and why neither he nor Len think it's going away
 • Why checking your portfolio every time the market drops is one of the most expensive habits a long-term investor can have
 • The automation argument that cuts through the discipline myth -- and why your systems matter far more than your willpower
 • Why the debt normalization shift that happened sometime in the late 1970s is still costing people their retirement today
 • The three-layer retirement income framework OG and Anna walk through -- Social Security, pensions and annuities, and investment withdrawals -- and how to find your gap number
 • The 4% rule explained in plain math -- including the inflation adjustment most people skip and why it matters enormously
 • What sequence of return risk actually means in practice -- and the floor strategy that keeps you from panic-selling at exactly the wrong moment
 • Why running out of money in retirement is mostly a planning problem, not a math problem -- and what that distinction changes
 • The ongoing battle to name OG and Anna's financial basics segment -- and why "The Financial Dwarves with Happy and Grumpy" didn't make the cut

Why This Matters Now

If you're in your 40s and that 67% statistic landed somewhere uncomfortable, you're not behind -- you're paying attention. The gap between fear and a plan is smaller than most people think, and this episode maps it out in terms you can actually act on this week. The math is real, the tools exist, and the biggest obstacle for most people isn't knowledge. It's starting.

From the Basement

Joe, OG, and Len Penzo dig into a sobering Investment News study on retirement fears before OG and Anna kick off season two of their financial basics series with a full retirement income planning walkthrough -- complete with a guidebook you can download and follow along. Doug arrives with Festivus trivia that everyone over 40 finds insultingly easy. The segment naming debate continues with no resolution in sight, though The Study and The Financial Dwarves with Happy and Grumpy both made spirited cases.

Resources Mentioned

 • Len Penzo -- 
lenpenzo.com • ; book: True Money Stories on Amazon
 • JP Morgan Guide to the Markets -- search "JP Morgan Guide to the Markets" for monthly market data
SSA.gov • -- Social Security earnings history and benefit projections
 • Stacking Benjamins Basics Guide -- season one and season two workbooks free at 
stackingbenjamins.com/basicsguide • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/vault • Stacking Benjamins Community -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/basement • FULL SHOW NOTES: 
https://stackingbenjamins.com/Why-Americans-Fear-Running-Out-of-Money-in-Retirement-More-Than-Dying-1840 • Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at 
https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Why 67% of Americans Fear Running Out of Money More Than Dying (And What to Do About It) SB1840

Ever spend an entire afternoon trying to save 38 cents… while completely ignoring the $10 decision sitting right in front of you?

Yeah. We’ve all been there.

In today’s roundtable, we’re diving into the money habits that actually build wealth, and the ones that just make you feel productive while your financial progress spins its wheels. From lifestyle inflation to automated savings to the tiny “money hacks” people obsess over, this episode is all about separating the moves that matter from the stuff that just wastes your time.

And trust us… the conversation goes everywhere in the best possible way.

Joe teams up with Len Penzo and the mysterious Mrs. Adventure Rich for a fast-moving discussion about:

 • Why automating your savings beats relying on “discipline”
 • The sneaky danger of lifestyle inflation after every raise
 • Whether investing spare change is brilliant… or basically pointless
 • The financial habits that create real momentum
 • Why focusing on tiny wins can sometimes cost you bigger victories
 • The retirement risks most people completely overlook
 • Inflation’s hidden effect on your future lifestyle
 • Whether the 4% rule still holds up
 • How to stay motivated when your financial goals feel far away
 • Why you should start “living retirement” now instead of waiting decades

Of course, because this is the basement:

 • Doug shows up in yoga pants and Ugg boots
 • Len reveals his long-range financial “strategic plan”
 • Joe and Len turn into old men reminiscing about dime Slurpees
 • Somebody compares grocery shopping to psychological warfare
 • And there’s at least one discussion involving sandwiches that goes completely off the rails

What makes this conversation especially interesting? About halfway through, you’ll realize this discussion originally happened years ago… and somehow every single topic still feels ripped from today’s headlines. Different year. Same money traps. Same smart moves. Same need for a financial plan that actually works in real life.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re spending too much energy on the wrong financial goals—or you just want smarter ways to make progress without making yourself miserable—this episode belongs in your playlist today.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

40 Ways to Take Control of Your Money -- Which Ones Actually Work (SB1839)

Getting to your first $25,000 saved is harder than anything that comes after it. Not because the math is complicated -- because the habits aren't built yet, the fixed expenses are already set, and the standard advice about cutting small treats completely misses where the real leverage is. Scott Trench, VP of Operations at BiggerPockets and author of Set for Life, brings a roadmap that challenges almost everything you've heard about getting started -- and it begins with a decision most people aren't willing to make.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why the first $25,000 is the hardest milestone -- and why cutting lattes and happy hours won't get you there
 • The three budget categories that actually matter -- and why they account for two thirds of what most people spend
 • Why saving your next $1,000 is more valuable than earning your next $1,000 -- and the tax math that proves it
 • The house hacking strategy that can eliminate your largest monthly expense entirely -- even if you never want to be a full-time landlord
 • Why stocks are less risky than bonds for long-term investors -- and the age-based argument Scott makes that most people miss
 • The counterintuitive case for spending more on fun -- once you've handled the big fixed expenses first
 • Why developing a specialty may actually be riskier than being adaptable -- and what that means for your career strategy
 • The retirement account trap that catches early savers off guard -- and when maxing out isn't the right first move
 • How to actually vet a financial advisor before handing over your money -- and why the problem is often as much the client as the advisor
 • Why international stocks belong in your portfolio even when they've underperformed -- and the rebalancing math that changes the picture

Why This Matters Now

This conversation was originally recorded years ago, but it was pulled from the vault for a reason: saving that first $25,000 feels harder today than it did then. Costs are higher, decisions feel riskier, and it's easier than ever to feel stuck before you even get started. The core framework Scott lays out hasn't changed -- and if anything, it applies more directly now than when it was first recorded.

From the Basement

Scott Trench joins Joe and OG to walk through the early chapters of Set for Life -- the ones that challenge conventional saving wisdom before getting into the real estate strategy BiggerPockets is known for. The headline segment takes on a Bloomberg piece about bad financial advisors and a lawsuit against American Funds, and OG gets considerably more animated than usual about both. Doug arrives with muni bond trivia that turns out to be exactly as straightforward as it sounds -- which is either reassuring or anticlimactic depending on your expectations.

Resources Mentioned

 • Set for Life by Scott Trench -- 
biggerpockets.com/setforlife • The Truth About Money by Ric Edelman -- referenced by Joe as a foundational personal finance read
 • FINRA BrokerCheck -- f
inra.org/brokercheck • ; referenced for vetting financial advisors
 • Stacking Benjamins Scorecard -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/scorecard • Stacking Benjamins Vault -- s
tackingbenjamins.com/vault • Stacking Benjamins Community -- 
stackingbenjamins.com/basement

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How to Save Your First $25,000 -- The Roadmap Most People Get Wrong (SB1838)

What if the reason your investment decisions feel so hard isn't the market -- it's how you're wired to think about outcomes? Annie Duke spent years as a professional poker player winning over $4 million in tournaments, then devoted the next chapter of her career to understanding why smart people consistently make bad decisions. The answer has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with how we confuse results with quality. She brings the full framework down to the basement today.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why certainty is the enemy of good decision making -- and the mindset shift that makes uncertainty feel like an advantage instead of a threat
 • The Pete Carroll problem: how tying the outcome of a decision to the quality of the decision is quietly wrecking how you evaluate your investments
 • Why being smarter actually makes this bias worse -- and how intelligent people spin data to confirm what they already believe more effectively than anyone else
 • The difference between wanting to be right and wanting to be accurate -- and why that single distinction changes everything about how you process new information
 • How to hold your beliefs as "works in progress" rather than positions to defend -- and why that opens you up to information that actually improves your decisions
 • Why the stock market's short-term volatility is almost never the signal investors treat it as -- and what a 40-year Berkshire Hathaway chart actually tells you
 • The poker table parallel to long-term investing -- and why you can make all the right moves and still lose, which means a bad outcome never proves a bad decision
 • What the Philly Special play reveals about how we reward boldness only when it works -- and what that tells you about how you judge your own financial choices
 • A listener question on market-cap weighted index funds -- why the s and p is built the way it is and what you'd actually need to do to weight it differently
 • The best personal finance and business books the crew is reading right now -- including picks from OG that go well beyond the usual recommendations

Why This Matters Now

For Stackers in their 40s watching a volatile market and second-guessing decisions that were perfectly sound six months ago, this episode is a direct intervention. The temptation to call a good decision bad because the market moved against you -- or to abandon a long-term strategy because of a short-term result -- is exactly the bias Annie Duke has spent her career studying. The framework she brings today doesn't just apply to poker. It applies to every financial decision you'll make for the rest of your life.

From the Basement

Annie Duke joins Joe and OG to walk through the decision-making framework behind her book Thinking in Bets -- including the Super Bowl story that reframes how most people evaluate every financial move they've ever made. The headline segment tackles parents spending six figures on kids' extracurriculars and what the trade-off actually looks like for retirement savings. Doug arrives with poker-themed trivia about the all-time tournament earnings leader, gets it mostly right, and declares victory anyway. Whether the basement poker tournament ended in anyone's favor is a matter of some dispute.

Resources Mentioned

 • Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke -- available wherever books are sold
 • Annie Duke's website and weekly newsletter -- annieduke.com
 • Annie Duke on Twitter -- @AnniedDuke
 • The Truth About Money by Ric Edelman -- recommended by Joe
 • Set for Life by Scott Trench -- recommended by Joe
 • Broke Millennial by Erin Lowry -- recommended by Joe
 • How to Be a Financial Grownup by Bobbi Rebell -- recommended by Joe
 • The Behavior Gap and The One-Page Financial Plan by Carl Richards -- recommended by OG
 • Fooling Some of the People All of the Time by David Einhorn -- recommended by OG
 • Built to Sell by John Warrillow -- recommended by OG
 • The E-Myth by Michael Gerber -- recommended by Joe
 • The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt -- recommended by Joe
 • Stacking Benjamins Community -- stackingbenjamins.com/basement

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Thinking in Bets: Annie Duke on Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts - Greatest Hits! (SB1837)

When did you start really thinking about, and maybe even stressing over, retirement? In your 50s, or 40s, or maybe even your 20s? Our discussion piece today, written by our friend Eric Brotman, talks about the increasing number of people in their early working career that are stressed about retirement. From stressing over saving enough money and comparing yourself to others (thanks, social media!) our contributors give their take and some tips they've learned over the years. Krista Edwards (Ready to Roth), Paula Pant (Afford Anything) and Len Penzo (len penzo dot com) join our roundtable and share the ways they've reduced their stress about retirement.

Enjoy!

 

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Should You Be More Worried About Retirement?

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