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Joe Saul-Sehy and Josh ‘OG’ Bannerman

Named Best Personal Finance Podcast by Bankrate.com and Kiplinger — and the only podcast the Plutus Awards retired from competition after winning twice — The Stacking Benjamins Show is personal finance that doesn’t put you to sleep.

Hosts Joe Saul-Sehy (former 16-year financial advisor, ex-WXYZ-TV “Money Man”) and Josh “OG” Bannerman, CFP (Certified Financial Planner, Bannerman Wealth) sit around the card table in Joe’s mom’s half-finished basement in Texarkana and talk money with the smartest guests in personal finance, investing, and behavioral economics. As Fast Company wrote, the show “strikes a great balance of fun and functional.”

Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday: expert guests, real headlines, listener questions, and Doug’s trivia. Topics include investing, retirement planning, budgeting, real estate, behavioral finance, taxes, and financial independence — for anyone who wants to be smarter about money without being talked down to.

Subscribe to The 201 — the free newsletter that goes deeper than the show — at stackingbenjamins.com/201

The Stacking Benjamins Show

In April 2025, the bond market did something the stock market couldn't: it made a sitting president reverse course within days. Financial Times journalist Robin Wigglesworth, author of the new book A Fabulous Debt, joins Joe and OG to explain why bonds, dismissed for centuries as the dull corner of finance, are actually the bedrock everything else sits on. From a murdered medieval ruler in Venice to a Scottish con man who sold bonds for a country that didn't exist to the hedge fund collapse that nearly took down the global financial system, this is 900 years of history explaining exactly why the "boring" market is the one that actually moves empires.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why the bond market, not the stock market, is what actually forced a change of course during 2025's "Liberation Day" tariff chaos
 • The surprisingly wild origin story of the very first government bond, issued in 1171 Venice, and how it got its ruler killed
 • How the Dutch turned Venice's basic invention into a true market, and used it to fund their independence from a much larger empire
 • The incredible true story of a con man who sold real bonds for a fictional country and lured hundreds of settlers to their deaths
 • Why Long-Term Capital Management, staffed with Nobel laureates and legendary traders, collapsed almost overnight in 1998
 • The biggest misconception most Americans have about U.S. government debt, and why the reality is more nuanced than the doom headlines suggest
 • Why the oldest investing mistake in 900 years of financial history is still the simplest one: borrowing too much

Why This Matters Now

Most people never think about bonds until something breaks, a rate spike, a market scare, a headline about the national debt, and by then it can feel too complicated to catch up on. But bonds quietly determine mortgage rates, corporate borrowing costs, and government policy in ways that touch daily life far more than most people realize. Understanding even the basics of how this market works, and how consistently it has shaped history, turns a vague sense of unease about "the economy" into something you can actually follow and make sense of.

From the Basement

A Bond-adjacent trivia detour (the James Bond kind, not the financial kind) reveals that Ian Fleming borrowed his spy's name from a real-life ornithologist, proof that even a show about medieval Venetian debt can't resist a pun. Plus, a Wall Street Journal headline on why the job market has quietly flipped in favor of workers without a college degree.

Resources Mentioned

A Fabulous Debt by Robin Wigglesworth • — Robin's new book on the 900-year history of bonds
Trillions by Robin Wigglesworth • — Robin's earlier book on the history of index funds
Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one budgeting and net worth tracking tool

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Robin Wigglesworth: The Boring Market That Actually Runs the World SB1901

"How do I know it's time to fire my advisor?" That question came up over and over at a recent retreat, enough that Joe knew it needed its own episode. Today he and OG walk through five real, specific red flags, not vague warnings about fees, but concrete signs that your advisor might be coasting, out of their depth, or simply not built for where your life is headed. If you've ever sat in a meeting with your advisor and wondered whether you're getting real value or just really good small talk, this one's for you.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why an advisor who knows your portfolio better than they know your actual life is a warning sign, not a compliment
 • The real reason a "free" advisor should make you more suspicious, not less
 • Why an advisor working with literally anyone, instead of a defined type of client, often means shallower expertise
 • How to tell the difference between a collaborative advisor relationship and one where you're quietly doing all the driving
 • Why outgrowing your advisor isn't always about more money, sometimes it's about more complexity, and that's worth a real conversation
 • A simple question to ask about fees that costs you nothing and might save you real money
 • The single clearest red flag of all: an advisor who leads with products instead of questions

Why This Matters Now

Most people have no natural way to judge whether their financial advice is actually good, since the whole reason you hired someone was that you didn't have the expertise to evaluate it yourself in the first place. That's not a flaw in you, it's exactly why concrete, observable signs matter more than a vague gut feeling. Knowing what a good advisor relationship actually looks like, real collaboration, a defined specialty, clear communication about fees and process, gives you a way to check in on that relationship without needing a finance degree to do it.

From the Basement

An Earth, Wind & Fire trivia detour uncovers the real, long-hidden meaning behind "the 21st night of September," and a listener question from someone getting her first-ever 401k at 50 sparks a genuinely useful conversation about target-date funds, Roth versus pre-tax decisions, and the often-overlooked Rule of 55.

Resources Mentioned

Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one budgeting, privacy, credit and net worth tracking tool
Stacking Benjamins Benjamins After Dark meetups • — local in-person Stacker meetup groups
Yell Down the Stairs • — submit a question for a future OG and Anna episode

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Five Signs Your Financial Advisor Might Not Be Great SB1900

You've done everything right. Emergency fund, employer match, maxed-out retirement account, boring diversified index funds quietly compounding in the background. And now some part of you is wondering: is there a next level? Financial educator Brian Feroldi joins Paula Pant and Jesse Cramer for a genuinely useful gut-check on whether picking individual stocks is a smart next step, a fun hobby, or a trap dressed up as ambition, and how to tell the difference before you put real money on the line.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • The single question that determines whether you're actually ready to buy individual stocks: do you have real interest in the process, not just the potential payoff
 • Why working in an industry doesn't automatically make you qualified to invest in it
 • The real statistics behind stock picking: roughly two-thirds of individual stocks underperform the market average
 • Why losing money on your first few stock picks might be the best possible outcome, and why winning right away can be dangerous
 • A clear framework for position sizing, so a stock-picking hobby never puts your actual financial plan at risk
 • The real opportunity cost of stock picking as a "side hustle," and why it competes with your time as much as your money
 • Why a great company and a great stock investment are often two completely different things

Why This Matters Now

There's a point in a lot of people's financial journeys where the basics start to feel almost too simple, and that itch to do something more advanced is worth taking seriously, not dismissing. But "more advanced" doesn't automatically mean "individual stocks," and jumping in without genuine interest or a clear framework can turn a healthy curiosity into an expensive mistake. Knowing honestly whether you're drawn to the actual process of researching and following businesses, not just the idea of beating the market, is the difference between a rewarding new hobby and a costly detour from a plan that was already working.

From the Basement

A tight, competitive trivia round on Bank of America's 1958 "Fresno Drop," the unsolicited mass credit card mailing that eventually led to the creation of Visa, shakes up the year-long standings in a genuinely dramatic way.

Resources Mentioned

Stock Simplifier • — Brian Feroldi's AI-powered stock research tool
Why Does The Stock Market Go Up? by Brian Feroldi • — Brian's bestselling book on how the market works
Afford Anything podcast • — Paula Pant's show
Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors podcast • — Jesse Cramer's show

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Should You Graduate From Index Funds to Individual Stocks? SB1899

The traditional life plan, learn, work for four decades straight, retire once and for all, was built for a much shorter life than many of us are actually going to live. Lynda Gratton, London Business School professor and bestselling author of The 100-Year Life, has spent years studying what happens when that old blueprint stops matching reality. Her answer isn't a bigger retirement number. It's a completely different way of thinking about how work, rest, learning, and relationships fit together across a much longer stretch of time, and what that means for how you actually fund it.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why a single, long block of retirement often backfires, and what tends to happen to people's sense of purpose and friendships when it does
 • The "weaving" framework: eight threads, four about staying productive and four about nurturing yourself, that Gratton argues need ongoing attention throughout life, not just at the end
 • Why a "flexibility fund" might matter more than a traditional retirement account for anyone planning to take real breaks, sabbaticals, or career pivots along the way
 • A simple four-option framework (stay, switch, scale back, or sail away) for deciding what to do when a chapter of work stops feeling right
 • Why the fastest way to burn out is neglecting the "nurture" side of life, and why neglecting the "productivity" side leaves you financially fragile instead
 • A genuinely useful reframe on AI: not a threat to outrun, but a reason to double down on the specifically human parts of work and life

Why This Matters Now

Longer lifespans sound like good news until you realize the traditional financial and career plan never accounted for them. A forty-year runway to retirement followed by thirty-plus years of doing nothing structured often turns out to be less fulfilling, and harder to fund, than a life built with more transitions built in along the way. Planning for that kind of life means thinking further ahead than most retirement calculators do, and building in the flexibility to actually use the extra years well, not just survive them.

From the Basement

A Dolly Parton headline turns into a genuinely sharp personal finance lesson: how she turned down Elvis, kept the rights to "I Will Always Love You," and built Dollywood, her literacy program, and her entire business empire on the exact same core talents rather than chasing unrelated ventures. Old-school diversification, but the boring kind that actually works.

Resources Mentioned

Living the 100-Year Life by Lynda Gratton • — Lynda's book, workbook, and free diagnostic on the eight life threads
Life Threads podcast • — Lynda's eight-episode podcast series exploring each thread
The 100-Year Life by Lynda Gratton and Andrew Scott • — the original million-copy bestseller that started this line of research

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Lynda Gratton: What If You Live to 100? Here's How to Actually Plan For It SB1898

Someone with half a million dollars confidently retires and thrives. Someone else with a full million dollars runs into trouble within a few years. The dollar amount alone never tells the whole story, and today's episode proves it with three real scenarios side by side. Joe and OG walk through exactly what changes the math: your age, whether Social Security has kicked in yet, how much of your spending is already covered by guaranteed income, and how many years that portfolio actually needs to stretch.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why the question to start with isn't "how much do I have," it's "what's the gap between my expenses and my guaranteed income"
 • A real comparison of three retirement scenarios (500k, 750k, and 1 million) that shows why the smallest portfolio can actually be the least risky
 • Why the "safe withdrawal rate" debate among experts (ranging from under 4% to over 5%) matters less than having a plan for flexibility
 • The often-overlooked lumpy expenses, property taxes, insurance premiums, home repairs, that can quietly wreck an otherwise solid retirement budget
 • Why retiring early and taking Social Security ahead of schedule creates a double reduction that compounds for both you and a spouse
 • A clear breakdown of how many years you actually have left to "practice" your retirement spending before you commit to it

Why This Matters Now

A specific dollar figure feels like it should provide an answer, but retirement security depends on the relationship between that number and your actual life: your fixed expenses, your guaranteed income, your timeline, and your flexibility if plans change. Two people with wildly different account balances can have equally solid plans, and two people with the same balance can be in completely different positions depending on when they start drawing from it. The real work isn't chasing a bigger number. It's understanding exactly what gap that number needs to fill.

From the Basement

A Social Security deep dive digs into a genuinely useful and underdiscussed detail: how retiring early doesn't just shrink your own benefit, it can shrink a spouse's spousal benefit too, and by how much. Plus, a Golden Girls trivia detour and a listener note that sparks a good, honest conversation about teaching kids to give.

Resources Mentioned

Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one budgeting and net worth tracking tool
SSA.gov • — create an account to download your official Social Security earnings statement
The 201 Newsletter • — deeper dives on topics covered in the show

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Can You Retire With $500,000? $750,000? A Million? SB1897

Collaboration is celebrated everywhere else. Musicians collaborate. Athletes have training partners. Businesses merge their best ideas together. But mention teaming up on your finances, and suddenly it sounds suspicious, like you're doing something wrong. Joe sits down with Paula Pant, Jesse Cramer, and OG to ask why personal finance is the one area where going it alone gets treated as a virtue, and what exactly gets left on the table when nobody's allowed to help.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why financial blind spots are nearly impossible to see on your own, no matter how much you already know
 • A real story about a stranger who handed over his entire real estate renovation system, no strings attached, simply because that's how a good community works
 • Specific, practical answers for who to actually collaborate with on earning more, spending less, saving more, and investing better
 • Why "the best collaborator" is sometimes the person most willing to tell you you're wrong
 • A surprisingly effective incentive system for getting family members genuinely invested in cutting shared expenses
 • Why competitors can make some of the most valuable collaborators of all, if you're willing to see them that way

Why This Matters Now

There's a quiet assumption in a lot of financial advice that asking for help is a sign of weakness, that a truly capable person should be able to figure it all out solo. But nobody expects a musician, an athlete, or a business to succeed in total isolation, and money isn't actually any different. The people who make the fastest progress usually aren't the ones with the most willpower. They're the ones surrounded by others willing to share a system, question an assumption, or simply say "that seems like a lot of money for fish."

From the Basement

A fiercely competitive year-long trivia race gets even tighter with a question about the Volkswagen Beetle's original 1949 price tag, complete with a brand-new (and delightfully cheap) trophy that finally dethrones the old one.

Resources Mentioned

Afford Anything podcast • — Paula Pant's show, referenced episode featuring 9/11 survivor Michael Hingson
Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors podcast • — Jesse Cramer's show
Stacking Benjamins on OG's calendar • — for financial planning help

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Why "Doing It Yourself" With Money Is Costing You SB1896

Todd Havens spent decades dreaming of a net worth of zero, just breaking even felt like an impossible finish line. Then, in 2021, at the height of COVID, a doctor delivered news that would reframe everything: incurable blood cancer, tumors too numerous to count. What follows is one of the most honest, wide-ranging conversations this show has had about money, mortality, and the difference between being rich and actually being wealthy. Todd is now in remission, a self-made millionaire, and the author of a book built entirely around one idea: the biggest obstacle to financial security usually isn't a spreadsheet problem. It's what's happening between your ears.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why disability insurance and life insurance, the coverage nobody wants to pay for, turned out to matter more than almost anything else when the worst actually happened
 • The "money dam" framework for deciding, moment by moment, what's actually worth spending on
 • Why believing you "deserve" financial security might be the single most important money belief there is
 • A game that separates helpful money beliefs from dangerous ones, and why "I'll save more when I make more" quietly sabotages people for years
 • Why net worth, not salary, is the number that actually matters, and how that shift changed Todd's entire trajectory
 • A genuinely difficult story about saying no to a parent's request for money, and why it was ultimately an act of love
 • Why gratitude, generosity, and integrity are money topics, whether people realize it or not

Why This Matters Now

It's tempting to think financial struggle is purely a math problem: spend less, save more, invest wisely. But plenty of financially literate people still feel stuck, and the reason is rarely a lack of information. It's an old story about not deserving security, about money meaning lack, about identity getting tangled up with a bank balance. Untangling that story doesn't require a windfall or a perfect plan. It requires deciding, the way Todd did at forty, that today is the day the narrative changes, and then building simple systems that don't depend on willpower to keep working.

From the Basement

A headline on the four things you should never order in front of your boss turns into a genuinely useful (and very funny) etiquette lesson, complete with a real story about a twenty-year-old nephew calmly ordering the most expensive steak on the menu without blinking. A listener question on Robinhood also gets a thorough, unflinching answer on why the platform's marketing has repeatedly crossed lines other brokerages haven't.

Resources Mentioned

Think Wealthy by Todd Havens • — Todd's book on the mindset behind financial freedom
The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins • — companion read referenced as the "systems" counterpart to Todd's "mindset" focus
The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel • — referenced book on the behavioral side of money

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Todd Havens: Why Most People Don't Have a Money Problem, They Have a Thinking Problem SB1895

Every brokerage account asks the same question: how comfortable are you with a 20% decline? Are you conservative, moderate, or aggressive? Joe and OG argue that's exactly the wrong place to start, and it's why so many people panic-sell at the worst possible moment. The real question isn't how you feel about risk. It's what rate of return your actual goals require, and whether you can stomach the volatility that comes with getting there. Once you flip the order, risk tolerance stops being a personality quiz and becomes a math problem you can actually solve.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why "risk" and "volatility" are two completely different things, and confusing them leads to bad investing decisions
 • The real order of operations for building a portfolio: goal first, required return second, risk tolerance last
 • How standard deviation can turn scary market swings into something you expected all along, instead of something that panics you
 • Why concentration risk quietly builds up in portfolios, even for people who think they're diversified
 • A genuinely surprising take on why "getting more conservative as you age" often doesn't make sense, once you think in decades instead of birthdays
 • Real answers to listener questions on emergency fund sizing, late-start Roth conversions, disability insurance coverage, and whether the 4% retirement rule still holds up

Why This Matters Now

A risk tolerance quiz can't tell you what you actually need your money to do. It just measures a feeling in the moment, and feelings change the second the market gets scary, which is exactly when a plan built on feelings falls apart. Building your investment strategy around your actual goals and time horizon, instead of a gut reaction to hypothetical losses, gives you something sturdier to hold onto when the inevitable rough year arrives. That's the difference between panic-selling at the bottom and staying the course long enough to actually reach the life you're investing for.

From the Basement

A Labor Day trivia detour into the 1916 origins of workers' compensation somehow spirals into a bit about an "employee named Al" being replaced by AI, which is either brilliant wordplay or a sign the basement crew needs a vacation. Possibly both.

Resources Mentioned

Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one budgeting and financial tracking tool
Yell Down the Stairs • — submit a question for a future OG and Anna episode

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're Doing Risk Tolerance Backwards SB1894

This is a different kind of episode. No trivia, no headlines, just Joe and longtime health and wellness expert Angelo Poli having an honest, unscripted conversation about what happened when a training injury, a missed diagnosis, and months of frustration sent Joe into a spiral he didn't see coming. It's a personal story, but the reason it belongs on a money show is simple: your ability to earn, think clearly, and actually enjoy what you've built depends on your health just as much as it depends on your portfolio.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why a setback in one area of your health or life can quietly spiral into others, and the exact moment that turnaround has to happen
 • The science behind why doing "one thing" well beats trying to overhaul everything at once
 • Why having someone else to be accountable to changes follow-through far more than willpower alone
 • A candid explanation of why almost nobody follows through on "I'll think about it and get back to you," and what to do instead
 • Why acting early in the day and early in the week measurably increases your odds of sticking with a health goal
 • How physical health directly affects financial outcomes, through energy, focus, decision-making, and the years you get to actually enjoy what you've saved

Why This Matters Now

It's tempting to treat health and money as two completely separate categories of adulting. But the connection runs deeper than most people realize: poor sleep, low energy, and physical pain make it harder to think clearly, work efficiently, or make good financial decisions. And the whole point of building financial security is having the health to actually enjoy it, time with family, travel, the ability to do the things you're saving for. Taking care of one without the other only gets you halfway to the life you're actually working toward.

Resources Mentioned

MetPro • — Angelo Poli's concierge nutrition, fitness, and lifestyle coaching program, free session for Stacking Benjamins listeners

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Angelo Poli: Why Your Health Is a Financial Decision (SB1893)

What actually makes for a happy retirement? Today, Joe sits down with retirement expert Wes Moss, author of The Retire Sooner Method, to explore the research behind America’s happiest retirees. Wes explains why money is only part of the equation, how community and “super activities” give retirement purpose, why eliminating debt can create more freedom, and how a clear retirement plan can help reduce the fear of running out of money.

Then Joe and OG tackle one of retirement’s most popular investing strategies: living off dividends so you never have to sell your investments. They break down why dividends feel so appealing, where the strategy can fall short, and why building your retirement income plan around your goals may matter more than chasing a particular yield. Plus, Doug celebrates the anniversary of the ATM with some cash-dispensing trivia.

Resources mentioned

Wes MossThe Retire Sooner Method: The 5 Secrets Behind America’s Happiest and Unhappiest RetireesYou Can Retire Sooner Than You ThinkRetirees Love Dividends, but the Stock Market Surge Is Making Them Think Again — The Wall Street JournalField Kit FinanceThe 201 newsletter — stackingbenjamins.com/201Field Kit Finance webinars: Sign up for The 201 to get the full schedule.The Clark Howard ShowFinConDana AnspachBen CarlsonAttorney Tim Semro’s recent Stacking Benjamins appearance

FULL SHOW NOTES: https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/wes-moss-retire-sooner-method-1892/

Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201

Enjoy!

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The 5 Secrets of a Happier Retirement with Wes Moss (SB1892)

When college looked unaffordable for Jocelyn Paonita, she sprang into action and raised over $120,000 in scholarships. How did she score so much money? What was her system? We'll discuss all of that on today's show. Whether you have a child headed to college, in school, in college yourself, or just looking for a story about someone taking massive action to solve their problem.

We'll also throw out the Haven Life Line to Trey. He's buying a house and is worried about the recent credit hack. Should he freeze his credit, only to open it again nearly immediately? Plus we'll answer a letter from Michelle, who wonders how to set and prioritize goals.

Special thanks to M1Finance and Big Picture Retirement podcast for sponsoring our show! We couldn't do any of this without the support of these awesome companies.

 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How She Earned Over $120,000 in Scholarships (with Jocelyn Paonita)

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