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Joe Saul-Sehy and Josh ‘OG’ Bannerman

Named Best Personal Finance Podcast by Bankrate.com and Kiplinger — and the only podcast the Plutus Awards retired from competition after winning twice — The Stacking Benjamins Show is personal finance that doesn’t put you to sleep.

Hosts Joe Saul-Sehy (former 16-year financial advisor, ex-WXYZ-TV “Money Man”) and Josh “OG” Bannerman, CFP (Certified Financial Planner, Bannerman Wealth) sit around the card table in Joe’s mom’s half-finished basement in Texarkana and talk money with the smartest guests in personal finance, investing, and behavioral economics. As Fast Company wrote, the show “strikes a great balance of fun and functional.”

Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday: expert guests, real headlines, listener questions, and Doug’s trivia. Topics include investing, retirement planning, budgeting, real estate, behavioral finance, taxes, and financial independence — for anyone who wants to be smarter about money without being talked down to.

Subscribe to The 201 — the free newsletter that goes deeper than the show — at stackingbenjamins.com/201

The Stacking Benjamins Show

Collaboration is celebrated everywhere else. Musicians collaborate. Athletes have training partners. Businesses merge their best ideas together. But mention teaming up on your finances, and suddenly it sounds suspicious, like you're doing something wrong. Joe sits down with Paula Pant, Jesse Cramer, and OG to ask why personal finance is the one area where going it alone gets treated as a virtue, and what exactly gets left on the table when nobody's allowed to help.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why financial blind spots are nearly impossible to see on your own, no matter how much you already know
 • A real story about a stranger who handed over his entire real estate renovation system, no strings attached, simply because that's how a good community works
 • Specific, practical answers for who to actually collaborate with on earning more, spending less, saving more, and investing better
 • Why "the best collaborator" is sometimes the person most willing to tell you you're wrong
 • A surprisingly effective incentive system for getting family members genuinely invested in cutting shared expenses
 • Why competitors can make some of the most valuable collaborators of all, if you're willing to see them that way

Why This Matters Now

There's a quiet assumption in a lot of financial advice that asking for help is a sign of weakness, that a truly capable person should be able to figure it all out solo. But nobody expects a musician, an athlete, or a business to succeed in total isolation, and money isn't actually any different. The people who make the fastest progress usually aren't the ones with the most willpower. They're the ones surrounded by others willing to share a system, question an assumption, or simply say "that seems like a lot of money for fish."

From the Basement

A fiercely competitive year-long trivia race gets even tighter with a question about the Volkswagen Beetle's original 1949 price tag, complete with a brand-new (and delightfully cheap) trophy that finally dethrones the old one.

Resources Mentioned

Afford Anything podcast • — Paula Pant's show, referenced episode featuring 9/11 survivor Michael Hingson
Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors podcast • — Jesse Cramer's show
Stacking Benjamins on OG's calendar • — for financial planning help

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Why "Doing It Yourself" With Money Is Costing You SB1896

Todd Havens spent decades dreaming of a net worth of zero, just breaking even felt like an impossible finish line. Then, in 2021, at the height of COVID, a doctor delivered news that would reframe everything: incurable blood cancer, tumors too numerous to count. What follows is one of the most honest, wide-ranging conversations this show has had about money, mortality, and the difference between being rich and actually being wealthy. Todd is now in remission, a self-made millionaire, and the author of a book built entirely around one idea: the biggest obstacle to financial security usually isn't a spreadsheet problem. It's what's happening between your ears.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why disability insurance and life insurance, the coverage nobody wants to pay for, turned out to matter more than almost anything else when the worst actually happened
 • The "money dam" framework for deciding, moment by moment, what's actually worth spending on
 • Why believing you "deserve" financial security might be the single most important money belief there is
 • A game that separates helpful money beliefs from dangerous ones, and why "I'll save more when I make more" quietly sabotages people for years
 • Why net worth, not salary, is the number that actually matters, and how that shift changed Todd's entire trajectory
 • A genuinely difficult story about saying no to a parent's request for money, and why it was ultimately an act of love
 • Why gratitude, generosity, and integrity are money topics, whether people realize it or not

Why This Matters Now

It's tempting to think financial struggle is purely a math problem: spend less, save more, invest wisely. But plenty of financially literate people still feel stuck, and the reason is rarely a lack of information. It's an old story about not deserving security, about money meaning lack, about identity getting tangled up with a bank balance. Untangling that story doesn't require a windfall or a perfect plan. It requires deciding, the way Todd did at forty, that today is the day the narrative changes, and then building simple systems that don't depend on willpower to keep working.

From the Basement

A headline on the four things you should never order in front of your boss turns into a genuinely useful (and very funny) etiquette lesson, complete with a real story about a twenty-year-old nephew calmly ordering the most expensive steak on the menu without blinking. A listener question on Robinhood also gets a thorough, unflinching answer on why the platform's marketing has repeatedly crossed lines other brokerages haven't.

Resources Mentioned

Think Wealthy by Todd Havens • — Todd's book on the mindset behind financial freedom
The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins • — companion read referenced as the "systems" counterpart to Todd's "mindset" focus
The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel • — referenced book on the behavioral side of money

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Todd Havens: Why Most People Don't Have a Money Problem, They Have a Thinking Problem SB1895

Every brokerage account asks the same question: how comfortable are you with a 20% decline? Are you conservative, moderate, or aggressive? Joe and OG argue that's exactly the wrong place to start, and it's why so many people panic-sell at the worst possible moment. The real question isn't how you feel about risk. It's what rate of return your actual goals require, and whether you can stomach the volatility that comes with getting there. Once you flip the order, risk tolerance stops being a personality quiz and becomes a math problem you can actually solve.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why "risk" and "volatility" are two completely different things, and confusing them leads to bad investing decisions
 • The real order of operations for building a portfolio: goal first, required return second, risk tolerance last
 • How standard deviation can turn scary market swings into something you expected all along, instead of something that panics you
 • Why concentration risk quietly builds up in portfolios, even for people who think they're diversified
 • A genuinely surprising take on why "getting more conservative as you age" often doesn't make sense, once you think in decades instead of birthdays
 • Real answers to listener questions on emergency fund sizing, late-start Roth conversions, disability insurance coverage, and whether the 4% retirement rule still holds up

Why This Matters Now

A risk tolerance quiz can't tell you what you actually need your money to do. It just measures a feeling in the moment, and feelings change the second the market gets scary, which is exactly when a plan built on feelings falls apart. Building your investment strategy around your actual goals and time horizon, instead of a gut reaction to hypothetical losses, gives you something sturdier to hold onto when the inevitable rough year arrives. That's the difference between panic-selling at the bottom and staying the course long enough to actually reach the life you're investing for.

From the Basement

A Labor Day trivia detour into the 1916 origins of workers' compensation somehow spirals into a bit about an "employee named Al" being replaced by AI, which is either brilliant wordplay or a sign the basement crew needs a vacation. Possibly both.

Resources Mentioned

Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one budgeting and financial tracking tool
Yell Down the Stairs • — submit a question for a future OG and Anna episode

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're Doing Risk Tolerance Backwards SB1894

This is a different kind of episode. No trivia, no headlines, just Joe and longtime health and wellness expert Angelo Poli having an honest, unscripted conversation about what happened when a training injury, a missed diagnosis, and months of frustration sent Joe into a spiral he didn't see coming. It's a personal story, but the reason it belongs on a money show is simple: your ability to earn, think clearly, and actually enjoy what you've built depends on your health just as much as it depends on your portfolio.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why a setback in one area of your health or life can quietly spiral into others, and the exact moment that turnaround has to happen
 • The science behind why doing "one thing" well beats trying to overhaul everything at once
 • Why having someone else to be accountable to changes follow-through far more than willpower alone
 • A candid explanation of why almost nobody follows through on "I'll think about it and get back to you," and what to do instead
 • Why acting early in the day and early in the week measurably increases your odds of sticking with a health goal
 • How physical health directly affects financial outcomes, through energy, focus, decision-making, and the years you get to actually enjoy what you've saved

Why This Matters Now

It's tempting to treat health and money as two completely separate categories of adulting. But the connection runs deeper than most people realize: poor sleep, low energy, and physical pain make it harder to think clearly, work efficiently, or make good financial decisions. And the whole point of building financial security is having the health to actually enjoy it, time with family, travel, the ability to do the things you're saving for. Taking care of one without the other only gets you halfway to the life you're actually working toward.

Resources Mentioned

MetPro • — Angelo Poli's concierge nutrition, fitness, and lifestyle coaching program, free session for Stacking Benjamins listeners

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Angelo Poli: Why Your Health Is a Financial Decision (SB1893)

What actually makes for a happy retirement? Today, Joe sits down with retirement expert Wes Moss, author of The Retire Sooner Method, to explore the research behind America’s happiest retirees. Wes explains why money is only part of the equation, how community and “super activities” give retirement purpose, why eliminating debt can create more freedom, and how a clear retirement plan can help reduce the fear of running out of money.

Then Joe and OG tackle one of retirement’s most popular investing strategies: living off dividends so you never have to sell your investments. They break down why dividends feel so appealing, where the strategy can fall short, and why building your retirement income plan around your goals may matter more than chasing a particular yield. Plus, Doug celebrates the anniversary of the ATM with some cash-dispensing trivia.

Resources mentioned

Wes MossThe Retire Sooner Method: The 5 Secrets Behind America’s Happiest and Unhappiest RetireesYou Can Retire Sooner Than You ThinkRetirees Love Dividends, but the Stock Market Surge Is Making Them Think Again — The Wall Street JournalField Kit FinanceThe 201 newsletter — stackingbenjamins.com/201Field Kit Finance webinars: Sign up for The 201 to get the full schedule.The Clark Howard ShowFinConDana AnspachBen CarlsonAttorney Tim Semro’s recent Stacking Benjamins appearance

FULL SHOW NOTES: https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/wes-moss-retire-sooner-method-1892/

Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201

Enjoy!

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The 5 Secrets of a Happier Retirement with Wes Moss (SB1892)

Companies have gotten frighteningly good at removing friction from spending. One click, stored payment info, a box on your porch before you've even had time to regret the purchase. Today's episode flips that same idea around: what if you engineered your own financial life the same way, making good decisions the path of least resistance and bad decisions just annoying enough to make you pause? Joe and OG close out Financial Action Month with a genuinely useful framework for building systems that work even on the days your willpower doesn't show up.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why discipline isn't a personality trait, it's a system you build once instead of a decision you make every day
 • A simple "make it easy or make it hard" test you can apply to any financial habit, from retirement savings to late-night online shopping
 • Why automating your savings rate removes the single biggest source of decision fatigue in a financial plan
 • A smarter way to handle windfalls and bonuses, deciding your split between saving, debt, and fun once a year instead of every single time
 • Why canceling a subscription is deliberately made difficult, and the workaround that neutralizes it
 • A four-step "financial action ladder" for turning financial knowledge into permanent, lasting habits
 • Why waiting a day before a big purchase, and other small friction points, can save you from regret without requiring any extra willpower

Why This Matters Now

Knowing what to do with your money has never really been the hard part. The hard part is doing it consistently, especially when life gets busy, stressful, or just plain boring. Building your environment so the smart choice is also the easy choice takes the daily grind of willpower out of the equation entirely. That's not a lack of discipline, it's actually the most disciplined move available: deciding once, automating it, and letting the system do the work every day after that.

From the Basement

A goofy but genuinely fun "make it easy or make it hard" game plays out across everything from emergency funds to concert tickets, and a National Trail Mix Day detour delivers exactly the kind of nonsense only this show could make delightful.

Resources Mentioned

Stacko Financial Action Month board • — the interactive game with a money move for each square
Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one financial organization and subscription-canceling tool
Profit First by Mike Michalowicz • — the book referenced on flipping the save-then-spend default

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Mental Trick That Makes Saving Money Effortless SB1891

Everybody likes to believe they're too smart for marketing. Companies spend billions of dollars putting jingles and slogans in our heads anyway, and this episode puts that theory to the test. Paula Pant, Len Penzo, and OG face off in a rapid-fire game: Doug reads a slightly modified version of a famous advertising slogan, and they have to name the brand. What follows is a genuinely fun, surprisingly competitive round that proves just how deep this stuff sits in all of our brains, whether we like it or not. This one's a Greatest Hits favorite, originally recorded back in 2020, and the game holds up exactly as well today.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • A fast-paced, genuinely fun game you can replay in your own head (or with friends on a road trip) testing how many classic slogans you actually remember
 • A real discussion on how much advertising quietly shapes what we believe is smart to buy, invest in, or trust with our money
 • A candid conversation about pieces of financial advice that used to be gospel and don't hold up anymore, including homeownership as an automatic wealth-builder and the old "100,000 miles and it's time for a new car" rule
 • A memorable real-world story about how deeply brand loyalty can override even a clearly better financial decision
 • A reminder that good financial advice isn't about memorizing fixed rules, it's about regularly checking whether those rules still fit your actual life

Why This Matters Now

It's easy to assume you make financial decisions purely on logic. But brand recognition, catchy slogans, and decades of repeated marketing messages shape more of our buying and money decisions than most of us would like to admit. Recognizing that influence doesn't mean living in constant suspicion of every ad you see. It means occasionally asking whether a belief about money, homeownership, cars, insurance, college, is something you actually decided, or something you absorbed because you heard it enough times to assume it was true.

From the Basement

A wildly competitive slogan showdown ends with a last-to-first comeback, plus a genuinely great story about a five-year-old spotting a McDonald's from the top of the Empire State Building at the exact wrong (or right) moment.

Resources Mentioned

Afford Anything podcast • — Paula Pant's show
LenPenzo.com • — Len Penzo's site, including his sister blog, The Persistent Itch
Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one financial organization tool referenced in the updated intro

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How Many of These Ad Slogans Can You Still Name? (Paula Pant, Len Penzo, OG Play Along) SB1890

Before Mel Robbins became one of the most recognized names in personal development, she was $800,000 in debt, unemployed, and numbing the panic with bourbon most nights by six o'clock. She knew exactly what she needed to do to climb out. Knowing wasn't the problem. Taking the first step was. That gap, between knowing and doing, is exactly what this conversation is about, and it's why Mel's simplest tool, a five-second countdown and a high five in the mirror, has been validated by neuroscience, adopted by veterans' organizations treating PTSD, and linked to real behavior change in ways that go well beyond feel-good advice. This episode originally aired in 2021 and earned its spot in our Greatest Hits lineup because the core idea hasn't aged a day.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • The five-second rule Mel used to physically interrupt anxiety and get out of bed during her lowest financial point
 • Why knowing what to do with your money is almost never the real obstacle, and what actually is
 • The surprising research linking high-fives among NBA teams to which teams went on to win championships
 • Why so many people feel resistance instead of relief the first time they try this exercise, and what that resistance is actually telling you
 • The neuroscience behind why a simple physical gesture can interrupt a negative thought spiral more effectively than positive self-talk
 • Why self-worth tied to a bank balance, a job title, or a number on a scale tends to collapse the moment things go wrong
 • A genuinely surprising story about grief, intuition, and a decision that changed the direction of Mel's entire family

Why This Matters Now

You probably already know several things you should be doing with your money right now. That's rarely the hard part. The hard part is closing the gap between knowing and doing, especially in moments of stress, shame, or overwhelm, exactly the moments financial setbacks tend to create. Building a habit of small, immediate self-support, showing up for yourself before you've accomplished anything, turns out to be one of the most overlooked tools for actually following through on the financial changes you already know you need to make.

From the Basement

A headline segment on modern, lower-fee annuities gets a healthy dose of skepticism, and a TikTok "wealth hack" involving margin loans gets thoroughly, hilariously debunked, a good reminder that not everything that sounds clever on social media survives contact with how markets actually work.

Resources Mentioned

The High 5 Habit by Mel Robbins • — Mel's book on the science-backed daily practice
Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one financial organization tool referenced in the updated intro

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Mel Robbins: The Morning Habit That Rewires Your Brain SB1889

There's a version of financial advice that lists fifty things you're supposed to be doing at once: build an emergency fund, pay off debt, invest, get life insurance, start a Roth, build an estate plan. All true, all important, and all completely useless without one missing piece: the order. Joe and OG walk through the exact sequence for figuring out what to tackle first, second, and third, so instead of freezing under the weight of everything, you know precisely where to start today. This one's a Stacking Benjamins classic, originally recorded a few years back, and the framework holds up so well it earned a spot in our Greatest Hits lineup unchanged.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • A simple four-quadrant framework for seeing your entire financial picture in one place, instead of overwhelming yourself with fifty scattered tasks
 • Why cash flow and risk management should almost always come before any long-term goal-setting, no matter how exciting the goals are
 • The real difference between a strict budget and an "anti-budget," and how to know which one your situation actually calls for
 • Why debt consolidation can quietly make things worse if the underlying behavior never changes
 • A clear-eyed look at which insurance actually matters most early in your financial life, and which ones get overhyped
 • Why starting with your tax strategy or investment picks first is almost always backwards, and what should come before it
 • The blunt case against co-signing a loan for a family member, no matter how good the reason sounds

Why This Matters Now

The instinct to fix everything at once usually backfires, not because the individual advice is wrong, but because doing five things halfway rarely beats doing one thing completely. A clear order of operations replaces that scattered, everything-at-once anxiety with a simple next step, and that clarity alone tends to build more momentum than any single tactic. Whether you're just starting to get organized or you've been meaning to revisit your plan for a while, knowing what actually comes first changes everything that follows.

From the Basement

A TikTok "hack" involving sneaking into a hotel breakfast buffet to save on groceries becomes the day's cautionary tale, alongside a genuinely unhinged story about an office keg that taught an entire WeWork floor a hard lesson about unlimited free beer.

Resources Mentioned

Stacking Benjamins Field Kit • — the all-in-one net worth and budgeting tool referenced in the updated intro
The 201 Newsletter • — deeper dives on topics covered in the show, written by Kevin Bailey

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your Financial Order of Operations: What to Fix First SB1888

Every parent eventually asks the same question: what does my kid actually need to know about money, and when do I teach it? Today's roundtable brings together three genuinely different perspectives, financial educator Karen Holland of Gifting Sense, middle school teacher and author Alaina Trivax, and Rishi Vamdatt, the now-college-bound creator behind Easy Peasy Finance who started teaching kids about money at age eight. Together they build a real, age-by-age roadmap, from swiping a credit card at six years old to filing taxes for the first time at eighteen.

What You'll Walk Away With

 • Why waiting until kids are "old enough to understand the math" is one of the most common mistakes parents make
 • A simple age-by-age breakdown of what to teach, from age six all the way through eighteen
 • Whether you should tell your kids exactly how much you earn, and what to say instead if you'd rather not
 • Why letting kids make small, affordable money mistakes now protects them from much bigger ones later
 • How to talk to kids about in-game currencies and microtransactions in a way that actually sticks
 • A refreshingly simple way to build an allowance system that teaches real financial judgment, not just chore compliance
 • Why you don't need to be great with money yourself to teach your kids well, and what actually matters more than expertise

Why This Matters Now

It's easy to feel unqualified to teach your kids about money, especially if your own financial journey has had plenty of stumbles. But the goal was never to have all the answers. It's to normalize talking about money at home, model good decision-making out loud, and let kids practice with small stakes before the stakes get real. A little structure around when to introduce which concepts takes the guesswork out of a subject most parents already feel behind on, and turns it into something manageable, even fun.

From the Basement

A special exhibition round of trivia brings together three guest contestants for a genuinely close guessing game on the current going rate from the Tooth Fairy, complete with inflation commentary that would make any economist proud.

Resources Mentioned

Follow the Money by Alaina Trivax • — Alaina's new activity-based book teaching kids about money
Let's Make It Grow • — Alaina's platform helping parents teach financial literacy
Gifting Sense • — Karen Holland's nonprofit teaching kids mindful spending, including the "Spending Ed" program
Easy Peasy Finance • — Rishi Vamdatt's YouTube channel and book series, including the new release Easy Peasy Stocks

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What to Teach Your Kids About Money, and When 1887

If you're interested in the FIRE movement, how do you get started? And what goals do you need to set? Fritz Gilbert from The Retirement Manifesto is here to share his story and help you get started on your own. He's here to answer any and all questions about the FIRE movement.

This episode originally aired in 2018. Check out our original show notes here.

Enjoy!

 

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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How I Retired Early: A Case Study w/ Fritz Gilbert - REWIND

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