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Ari's Take

**WEBBY AWARD FOR BEST MUSIC PODCAST**

“#1 music industry podcast to help keep you in the loop” -Spotify

“The 10 Best Music Business Podcasts of 2022" – Variety

Ari Herstand is the best-selling author of How To Make It in the New Music Business. Forbes calls him “The poster child of DIY music.” In this show, he deconstructs the brightest minds in the music industry, digging deep to find the tools, tactics, and strategies that listeners can use to run successful careers of their own. Ari offers straight talk with no fluff and doesn’t let his guests off easy. If there is a way, Ari will find it.

To learn more follow @aristake_ and @ariherstand

Visit aristake.com to join the newsletter.

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 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The New Music Business with Ari Herstand

This week, Ari is joined by the band DOUBLECAMP to discuss how they built such a successful independent career.
 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Selling out Clubs With Very Few Followers? This DIY Band Is Making It Happen.

This week Ari sits down with Katie Tucker, a double-platinum songwriter, vocal producer, studio owner, and the visionary behind Sharp Edges Records with its accompanying recording studio. As a songwriter, Katie has crafted hit songs for renowned artists like Namie Amuro, BoA, and Jota Quest. She has amassed millions of streams as a recording artist and her music has been featured on major platforms including ABC, USA, VH1, Fox, Disney, Peacock, and Hulu. A defining moment in her career came with "Do It For Love," featured on Namie Amuro's album Finally, cementing her status as a double-platinum songwriter.

These days, however, Katie spends most of her time in advocacy and running Sharp Edges Records. One of the main reasons Katie started her record label/studio was to create a safe space for her clients within the industry. Katie started No Creeps!, an event and movement advocating for mental health, safety, and inclusivity in the music industry as a further expression of her advocacy. This conversation goes deep into safety and inclusion in music and recording. In this conversation, Katie offers tangible resources for how we can all participate in making this industry a safer and more supportive place for everyone. 

Katie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katiesharpedges/

Women In Music Safe(r) Spaces Resource Directory: https://www.womeninmusic.org/saferspaces

No Creeps! Digital Resource Zine: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uk87S0hmxSsHaEXCTieSuz3AiwcaKs-x/view?usp=drivesdk

Chapters:

00:00 Creating Safe Spaces in the Music Industry

03:08 The Journey to Sharp Edges Records

05:56 The Importance of Vulnerability in Music Creation

09:06 Navigating Safety and Inclusivity in Recording Studios

11:52 Concrete Steps for a Safer Music Environment

15:11 Understanding the Spectrum of Safety Concerns

18:00 Educating for Change: The Role of Communication

20:50 Empowering Artists Through Advocacy

30:20 Addressing Abuse of Power in the Music Industry

32:11 The No Creeps! Initiative: Creating Safe Spaces

36:19 Empowering Voices: Sharing Experiences and Education

41:11 The Importance of Allyship and Advocacy

46:24 Navigating Imperfection: Learning from Experiences

52:35 Resources for Safety and Support in the Industry

56:21 Redefining Success in the New Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can The Music Industry Be a Safe Place?

This week Ari sits down with Cody Fry, a multi-instrumentalist, singer, songwriter, and orchestral arranger known for his symphonic arrangements of his own music and other artists’ songs. Cody has been nominated for two grammys for arranging: this year for his adaptation of “The Sound of Silence” and previously for “Eleanor Rigby.” An incredible musician all around, Cody has found his niche fronting orchestras in a way that appeals to pop music lovers around the world.

Cody has played Walt Disney Concert Hall with the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra, the Kennedy Center, and has hundreds of millions of streams online. In 2021, his song “I Hear a Symphony” (which had already been out for five years) went viral on TikTok and landed Cody a major record deal. In this episode, Cody talks about what it was like working with a major label and the specifics of his record deal. He also tells Ari why he decided to eventually leave the label and go independent once again. 

https://www.codyfry.com/

Chapters

00:00 The Artist's Journey: From Aspiration to Independence

02:50 Cody Fry: The Orchestral Innovator

06:02 Crafting Sound: The Art of Orchestration

08:52 Finding Your Unique Sound as an Artist

11:58 The Viral Breakthrough: TikTok and Its Impact

15:08 Navigating Record Deals: Insights and Experiences

18:02 The Transition to Independence: A New Chapter

20:52 Performing with Orchestras: A Unique Experience

23:55 The Future of Music: Independence and Innovation

39:54 Navigating the Music Business Without a Manager

42:44 The Importance of Team Members in Music

43:14 Non-Traditional Team Members and Their Roles

46:07 Managing Sheet Music and Publishing Rights

54:35 Exploring Alternative Revenue Streams for Artists

01:01:09 Creating Engaging Content for a Niche Audience

01:04:02 Future Aspirations and New Music Projects

01:08:13 Understanding the Value of Record Deals

01:19:37 The Evolving Landscape of the Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cody Fry on Leaving a Major Record Label and Finding His Niche Fronting Orchestras

This week Ari sits down with George Karalexis & Donna Budica, the co-founders and CEO/COO (respectively) of TEN2 Media, a content distribution and marketing company that helps artists and labels maximize revenue and growth on YouTube. TEN2 Media partners with Warner Music Group, UnitedMasters, Travis Barker, Benson Boone, Brent Faiyaz, and more. They specialize in marketing, monetization, and collection on the YouTube platform, all of which you’ll hear about in this episode. 

This entire episode is dedicated to YouTube for music—artists and labels in particular. Donna and George share stats about how listeners interact with YouTube, how people discover new music on the platform, and what it means that YouTube is the #1 music discovery platform right now. They break down the components of YouTube monetization and do a deep dive into companies that help artists manage their YouTube channels and revenue. If you’re wondering how to up your YouTube game, the most effective ways to use YouTube these days, and all the various tools that exist on the platform (shorts, music videos, vlog content, lyric videos, playlists, storytelling, UGC [user-generated content], etc.), this is the episode for you.

https://www.ten2.media/

Kristin Robinson Billboard Article: How Did Two Unknown Latin Music Operators Make $23 Million From YouTube? The IRS Says They Stole It

Chapters

00:00 The Evolution of YouTube in Music

03:13 Understanding YouTube's Unique Role

06:02 Strategies for Artists on YouTube

08:49 The Power of YouTube Analytics

12:07 Monetization Mechanics on YouTube

15:00 Navigating YouTube's Revenue Streams

37:12 Understanding YouTube's Viewer Demographics

40:09 The Evolution of Cover Videos and UGC

42:55 The Long Game: YouTube vs. TikTok

43:51 Strategies for Emerging Artists

48:03 Navigating YouTube's Complex Revenue System

56:13 The Future of Distribution for Indie Artists

01:01:25 Filling the Void for Emerging Artists

01:09:01 When to Start Taking YouTube Seriously

01:12:07 Defining Success in the New Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How YouTube Works for Music

This week Ari sits down with Tor Hermansen, half of the production/songwriter duo Stargate. Stargate has written and produced major hit songs for artists such as Beyonce, Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Katy Perry, and Coldplay, to name a few. Tor has billions of streams, has written and produced 10 Billboard Hot 100 #1 singles in the US and 11 in the UK. He has won 2 Grammy Awards and received the ASCAP songwriter of the year award twice. Stargate’s writer and producer credits include Beyoncé’s global hit “Irreplaceable,” Beyoncé and Shakira’s “Beautiful Liar,” extensive work with Rihanna including “Rude Boy,” “Don’t Stop The Music,” “Only Girl (In the World),” What’s My Name, “S&M, “Diamonds,” Selena Gomez’ “Come & Get It” and “Same Old Love,” Fifth Harmony’s “Worth It” and Katy Perry’s “Firework.” Most recently, the team produced Coldplay’s album A Head Full of Dreams, co-wrote and produced Julia Michael’s current hit “Issues.”

Tor talks about the process of songwriting and producing, working with artists and topliners. He shares great advice on how to write and work in the room with other songwriters, producers, and topliners. Tor also shares valuable insight on demoing, writing, re-writing, scaling up a musical production, and more. Ari and Tor dive deep into the business end of songwriting and producing as well; they discuss the 9-month intensive LAAMP program (Los Angeles Academy for Artists and Music Producers) Tor and his Stargate partner Mikkel Eriksen created for aspiring artists, songwriters, and producers in LA and how to get involved. If you’re interested in how songwriting and producing works at the hit level, this episode is for you!

https://www.instagram.com/stargate/

https://www.laampmusic.com/

Chapters

00:00 No Compromising in Music Creation

00:33 Introduction to Tora Hermanson and Stargate

02:51 Songwriting and Production Process Insights

04:41 The Evolution of Music Production

10:19 The Pitch Game: Is It Dead?

13:14 Identifying a Hit: The Unpredictable Nature

16:03 The Role of Social Media in Music Success

18:52 Adapting to New Mediums: TikTok and Streaming

21:27 The Creation of 'Issues' with Julia Michaels

24:41 Evolving Production Techniques

27:51 Collaboration and Song Development

30:33 Creative Freedom in the Final Product

32:11 The Art of Collaboration in Songwriting

37:01 Navigating the Songwriting Process

46:59 The Business of Songwriting and Representation

49:16 Building a Career as a Songwriter

56:45 Creating a Nurturing Environment for Artists

01:04:50 Defining Success in the New Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

He Wrote/Produced 10 #1 Hit Songs: Stargate's Tor Hermansen on How To Do It

This week Ari sits down with Alex Taggart, an expert on the Chinese music market. Alex spent 10 years in China overseeing local strategy for clients such as Dua Lipa, Diplo, Lauv, John Legend and so many more. He now works independently, managing artists through his own company, Isle of Management. Alex’s main focus is bringing globally-minded talent to local audiences worldwide.

This conversation gives a comprehensive introduction to the Chinese music industry. Whether you’re well-versed in this market or know virtually nothing about it, you will learn a ton from this episode. Alex highlights various DSPs used in China (i.e. their versions of Spotify/Apple music) and explains the inner workings of Chinese social platforms. If you’re an artist looking to break into China, Alex offers actionable steps to get your music on their radar. In fact, you might already be big in China and not even realize it! Alex shares important info about how to check your music’s traction in China. If you’re interested in booking shows or touring through the country, this episode is for you, too. Enjoy this breakdown of the multifaceted Chinese music market!

https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-taggart-music/ 

Chapters

00:00 Collaborating for Success in China

01:51 Understanding the Chinese Music Market

07:55 Music Consumption and Streaming Platforms in China

15:59 Checking Your Traction in China

20:38 Revenue Streams for Artists

23:57 Monetization in the Chinese Music Industry

35:41 Navigating Publishing and Rights Management

37:07 Understanding China's Music Publishing Landscape

40:01 Navigating the Challenges of Music Rights in China

44:27 Exploring Touring Opportunities in China

49:50 Strategies for Artists to Break into the Chinese Market

54:12 The Role of Competition Shows in Artist Development

01:01:19 Leveraging Collaborations for Market Entry

01:12:01 Defining Success in the New Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How the China Music Market Works

This week Ari sits down with Luis Navarro and Joel Niño Jr. of the duo Twin Tribes. This dark wave band out of Brownsville, TX has been gaining impressive momentum on the gothic scene—and they’re doing it entirely DIY. Twin Tribes releases their music through DistroKid and has over 30 million streams with nearly a million monthly listeners on Spotify alone. They have toured the world and managed their growing success completely independently.

In this episode, Twin Tribes tells Ari all about how they’ve built their DIY operation from the ground up. They share about how they’ve partnered with record labels to utilize their physical product offerings (CDs, cassette tapes, vinyls, etc) while still maintaining full independence as artists. Luis and Joel also break down the potent visuals behind the Twin Tribes brand and how they developed their aesthetic. This conversation is an inspiring example of how finding your niche and building a DIY community can help catapult your career. 

https://www.instagram.com/twin_tribes/

Chapters

00:00 The Genesis of Twin Tribes

02:53 Building a DIY Community

06:03 The Role of Aesthetics in Music

08:51 Discovering the Gothic Scene

12:13 The Cassette Era and Initial Releases

15:10 Growing Through Live Performances

17:58 Transitioning to Full-Time Musicians

20:51 Strategic Partnerships and Touring

24:04 The Evolution of Their Sound and Success

28:21 Navigating DIY Music Partnerships

30:42 Building a Digital Strategy for Streaming Success

36:24 Creating Ambitious Music Videos

44:23 Crafting a Cohesive Aesthetic and Vision

50:36 Engaging with Fans and Community

53:04 Looking Ahead: Future Plans for Twin Tribes

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How This DIY Darkwave Band From Texas Sells Out Venues Around The World & Gets Millions of Streams

This week Ari sits down with Liz Pelly, a prominent music journalist and author of the new book Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist. Liz’s journalism has appeared in NPR, The Guardian, and Pitchfork among other prestigious publications. Preceded by an exposé in Harper’s Magazine, Pelly’s latest work, Mood Machine, pulls back the curtain on Spotify’s exploitative practices and uncovers how those practices impact artists and listeners. 

In this episode, Liz gives the low down on research she conducted for the book and explains how Spotify has unfairly conspired with major labels since its launch. As she does in Mood Machine, Liz calls out Spotify’s Perfect Fit Content (PFC) program and explains how its use of ghost artists degrades the integrity of their model for all. Ari and Liz discuss the value of music and how that can differ in the eyes of major corporations and individuals. Whether you’re an artist, label, or listener who uses Spotify, this episode will help you understand the impact Spotify’s model has on your relationship to music.

https://www.instagram.com/lizpelly 

Harper’s article: https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-in-the-machine-liz-pelly-spotify-musicians/

Chapters

00:00 The Inner Workings of Spotify

12:48 Ghost Artists and the PFC Program

37:50 Spotify's Launch and Major Label Relationships

41:26 The Evolution of Streaming Contracts

44:14 Valuing Music: A Cultural Perspective

49:43 The Impact of Streaming on Music Value

56:10 Algorithms and the Personalization of Music

01:01:20 The Role of Music in Society

01:07:23 Future Solutions for Musicians

01:19:38 Defining Success in the New Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Spotify Commissioned Cheap "Fake Artists" And She's Got the Proof

This week Ari sits down with Marc Caruso, the CEO and co-founder of Angry Mob Music, an independent music publisher based in LA. Aside from being an advocate for independent artists in the publishing world, Marc is a composer, producer, and Emmy-nominated music editor himself. He is also a board member and former President of the LA chapter of the Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP), a member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, a member of The Recording Academy, and a member of The Motion Picture Editors Guild.

In this episode, Marc describes the evolving landscape of music publishing, particularly in the context of our streaming economy. He breaks down essential terms, like ‘music publishing’ itself, ‘copyright’, and ‘royalties’, before diving into the deeper complexities of the publishing world. Marc is incredibly transparent about how the money gets made at his publishing company—giving detailed accounts of how much sync licenses pay these days and what royalties look like for microsyncs on platforms like YouTube and TikTok. Rounding out a more global view, Marc and Ari discuss Universal’s deal with Spotify, the MLC’s failed lawsuit against Spotify and what all this means for independent publishers and independent songwriters. 

https://www.instagram.com/angrymobmusic/

Chapters

00:00 The Shift from Sales to Streaming Economy

04:07 Understanding Music Publishing

12:50 The Role of Angry Mob Music

16:55 Revenue Streams in Music Publishing

21:30 The Importance of Sync Licensing

22:00 Sync Fees and Their Variability

29:44 Sync in Film and Advertising

34:34 Micro Sync and Social Media Platforms

39:41 Navigating Music Licensing for Creators

45:24 The Complexities of Music Rights on Social Media

49:11 The Role of Music Publishers and Advocacy

57:02 Inequities in the Music Industry

01:10:30 Empowering Independent Artists and Publishers

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How Independent Music Publishing Works (Or Doesn't)

This week Ari sits down with Simon Tikhman, the co-founder of The Core Entertainment and The Core Records. The Core Entertainment first made waves as an artist management company, guiding the careers of major country stars like Bailey Zimmerman and Nate Smith. After demonstrated success in management, The Core Entertainment partnered with Universal Music Group to launch The Core Records.

During this episode, Simon and Ari discuss the careers of The Core Entertainment’s breakout artists, Bailey Zimmerman and Nate Smith. Simon explains how both artists achieved success in drastically different ways—Nate landed his record deal at age 36 after grinding for many years in Nashville, while Bailey broke out on TikTok in his early 20s. Simon outlines the value in each of these paths and explains how Nashville treats artists differently if they have found success the traditional way versus through social media. This episode also goes into detail about what the Nashville country music scene looks like today, the nuances between Nashville labels and coastal labels, and the ins and outs of artist management. If you’re curious about how to break as a country artist in 2025, this episode is for you.

https://www.instagram.com/thecoreent/

Chapters

00:00 The Importance of Country Radio

04:58 Simon Tikhman's Journey to Artist Management

16:19 Building The Core Entertainment and Nashville Connections

24:12 Nate Smith's Breakthrough in Country Music

33:53 Bailey Zimmerman's Rise as a New Artist

35:21 The Rise of Bailey Zimmerman

41:10 Navigating the Music Industry

44:47 The Importance of Labels in Country Music

52:08 The New Paradigm for Country Artists

56:51 Social Media's Role in Artist Development

01:06:42 Defining Success in the Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How To Make It in Country Music from Bailey Zimmerman and Nate Smith's Manager

Joining us this week on the New Music Business is the Grammy nominated songwriter, actress, screenwriter, and director, Bonnie McKee. Since the early 2000s, McKee has written 10 singles that have reached #1 in the US and UK, which have sold more than 30 million copies worldwide combined.

McKee is particularly known for collaborating with pop singer Katy Perry, and the duo have written hits such as "California Gurls,” "Teenage Dream", "Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.)", "Part of Me,” "Wide Awake” and "Roar" together. She has also co-wrote "Dynamite" by Taio Cruz, which became the second-best selling song by a British artist in the digital era. Additional artists who she has worked with include Britney Spears, Kesha, Cher, Christina Aguilera, Kelly Clarkson, Adam Lambert and Mike Tompkins.

Subscribe to The New Music Business: https://aristake.com/nmb

Ari's Take Academy (use code NMB for 10% off): https://aristakeacademy.com

Watch more discussions like this: https://bit.ly/3LavMpa

Connect with Ari’s Take:

Website: https://aristake.com

Academy: https://aristakeacademy.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aristake_

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@aris.take

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ArisTake

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/aristake1

Connect with Ari Herstand:

Website: https://ariherstand.com

Instagram: https://instagram.com/ariherstand

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ariherstand

YouTube: https://youtube.com/ariherstand

Connect with Bonnie McKee:

Website: https://www.bonniemckee.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bonniemckee

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bonniemckee

Twitter: https://twitter.com/bonniemckee

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/bonniemckeeofficial

Edited and mixed by Maxton Hunter

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Business of Hit Songwriting with Bonnie McKee

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