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Vox Media Podcast Network

Media and tech aren’t just intersecting — they’re fully intertwined. And to understand how those worlds work, and what they mean for you, veteran journalist Peter Kafka talks to industry leaders, upstarts and observers - and gets them to spell it out in plain, BS-free English.
Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

In some ways, the Bulwark feels like other small publishers in 2025: it’s found growth and profit by pushing itself out on any platform it can find.

But that wasn’t the plan when the company started in 2018. Back then, it was a non-profit cofounded by Republicans who couldn’t stand their party’s embrace of Donald Trump, and wanted a place to organize, debate and push back.

Over the years the site turned itself into a for-profit, and found success selling Substack subscriptions — it’s currently on pace to do more than $12 million a year from those alone, says CEO Sarah Longwell. But it has really caught fire in recent years by embracing YouTube. “The thing that made the biggest difference was when we decided to turn the cameras on,” she says.

I talked to Longwell this week about the Bulwark’s evolution, and the tension between running a mission-driven company and one that wants to make money. And since Longwell still does political consulting and focus group work, I also talked to her about the state of the art when it comes to political media — and why she thinks Republicans are so much better at it then Democrats.
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The Bulwark's Sarah Longwell on Why Republicans Won the Attention War

Would you pay $7 a month to stream CNN?

Because CNN CEO Mark Thompson would like you to do that.

I know, I know, I’m skeptical, too. But Thompson has been here before: At his last job, as CEO of the New York Times, he helped shepherd that company’s subscription business, which had a gazillion naysayers at the start. And now the Times’ business model is the envy of everyone in journalism.

Can he do it again? One big difference is that the Times launched its paywall all the way back in 2011, before everyone was asking consumers to pay for monthly subscriptions for everything. I also have a hunch that the Times brand registers more deeply for its audience than CNN does for its. But now we’ll get to find out.

Meantime, all of this is happening as CNN parent Warner Bros. Discovery is likely to get sold, yet again. Which means all of the work Thompson and his team are doing could get upended by a new management regime.

But that’s the future. For now, it’s very much worth listening to Thompson make the case for CNN, and TV news in general.
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The Man Who Fixed The New York Times Wants to Fix CNN

We spend a lot of time on this show talking to people who run media companies. We also spend a lot of time talking to media reporters.

So here’s our one-man Venn diagram: Brian Morrissey runs The Rebooting, where he podcasts, writes and hosts events, all geared at making people in the media business smarter about the media business. If you want to hear from a guy who understands the big picture, but also the practical realities of operating, he’s your guy.

Brian has been preaching the gospel of small media for some time, so we start there: What is the upside of running a scaled-down media company these days — and what happens to all the businesses that spent years chasing scale?

And yes, Brian and I also talk about AI, and what it will and won’t do for (and to) media. But we also spend a lot of time talking about Google, and the enormous power it currently has — particularly when it comes to the company’s Discover feature, which drives an astonishing amount of traffic.
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The End of Mass Media—and What Comes Next

The AI story is changing fast. A few months ago, it was all promise and inevitability. Now even AI boosters are asking if the numbers make sense.

Ed Zitron got there early. He runs a PR firm for a living, which means he’s supposed to help people sell their stories. But he’s become best known for tearing tech’s biggest stories apart. And he’s been pushing at the economics behind the AI boom, via his newsletter and podcast, for some time.

We talk about how he built a career out of skepticism, why the media keeps falling for big tech’s favorite stories, and what happens if the AI party ends early. 

(And yes: I wrote the paragraphs above with an assist from ChatGPT — mostly so I can imagine Zitron fuming when he reads this.)
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The PR Guy Who Says the AI Boom Is a Bust

In lots of ways Guardian Media Group is facing the same problems as every other news publisher: A tricky ad environment, platform problems, looming AI threats.

One big difference: The Guardian also has a $1.5 billion trust backing the non-profit, which seems way, way better than being owned by a run-of-the-mill billionaire who might want to meddle with the paper.

But CEO Anna Bateson says the Guardian needs to be a self-sustaining publisher. So it has been steadily, and successfully, getting readers to shoulder the load, via donations, which now account for 40% of the company's revenue.

We talk about how and why the Guardian switched its business model; why it still wants ad money; how the British, lefty news shop is trying to break into America yet again, and why asking readers for donations is, and isn't, like asking them to pay for subscriptions.
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Why the Guardian Doesn't Need a Billionaire to Thrive

In the future, digital publishers could get run over by AI. In the present, they are deeply concerned about Google, and the prospect that the search giant is going to choke off their last reliable traffic stream.That may explain why lots of publishers are making deals with OpenAI now -- and doing a lot of grousing about Google.Ziff Davis CEO Vivek Shah is going the other way: he's one of only two big publishers to sue OpenAI (the other one is the New York Times) and he says his portfolio of sites would like more traffic from Google, but is confident things will work out.Shah and Ziff Davis never got the attention some of their digital peers did a decade ago. On the flip side, they're still standing in 2025. So this is a POV worth paying attention to.
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Almost Everyone is Taking Money from OpenAI. Why is Ziff Davis suing them?

When’s the last time you stayed up to watch a late night TV monologue? Months? Years? Decades?

I’m not sure, either. But I stayed up Tuesday night to watch Jimmy Kimmel’s return. James Poniewozik, who covers TV for the New York Times, just caught up with it the next day on YouTube.

Which underscores one of the odder parts of the Trump v. Kimmel fight - it revolves around a time slot and a format that has been on its way out for a long time.

So how did late night TV become a flashpoint in a crucial First Amendment fight? And how long is it going to stick around?

James is the perfect person for this discussion: Not only does he watch TV (or YouTube) for a living, he’s also become a professional Trump-watcher, because Trump is a TV character. (Trump and TV are the subject of James’ excellent 2019 book). But make no mistake: the threats he’s making — on his own and with the help of his regulators – are very real.
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The Future of Late Night TV, Jimmy Kimmel, and The First Amendment

A year ago I got try a pair of $10,000 computer goggles from Meta. The tech was super-impressive, but you couldn’t buy them them. You still can’t.

Now Mark Zuckerberg is trying a similar idea. But this time around the the tech is scaled-down, lighter and way cheaper: the new version costs $800, and you’ll be able to buy them in a couple days.

Why would you want to wear a computer on your face - no matter how much it costs and how much they weigh? And why do all the big tech companies keep trying to make this happen? I have some ideas, but Alex Heath is deeply sourced on this stuff, so asked him.

Up until this week, Alex was a star tech reporter at The Verge. Now he’s off on his own, with Access (a podcast) and Sources (a Substack). He’s kicking off his foray into indie media with a long interview with Zuckerberg, so we used that as a jumping off point to talk about Zuckerberg’s political shift, his AI obsession, and his big bet on wearable tech.
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I tried Zuckerberg's $800 Ray-Bans. Are they the future? With Alex Heath

John Coogan knows what you’re thinking: the world does not need another tech podcast. And the world does not need another podcast featuring two dudes talking.

Yet Coogan and Jordi Hays have started another tech podcast, featuring the two of them talking and… it’s a hit. In the span of a year, TBPN has become the place where tech execs go to chop up the news of the day - first in a daily livestream, and later in clips that circulate around the internet.

And Coogan and Hays are carving out a niche for themselves: Insidery, in-the-know, but also not that serious about the whole thing. They don’t have a huge audience, but they have an influential one, and the beginnings of a very intriguing business. 

I talked to Coogan about how TBPN got off the ground, how it works today, where he and Hays go from here — and whether their success has built a playbook for others to follow.
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How TBPN Made a Tech News Splash

Everyone agrees that the decline/disapperance of local news is a big problem. No one agrees about the best way to solve it.

So let’s check in on a new AI push from Patch, the people who have been trying to do local news, online, at scale, for more than two decades.

Last spring, Patch CEO Warren St. John announced that he was running local newsletters for thousands of communities across the U.S., without employing a single human to make them. This week, I asked him how it’s going.

No one is going to mistake these “Patch AM” emails for a fully-staffed local news outlet — and in fact Patch relies on other local outlets to help populate their newsletters. But they also seem like a well-meaning effort to provide residents with something, as opposed to nothing. Or, in St. John’s words: He’s providing them with a Kind bar, not a 5-course meal.

Does that make you nervous about the future of news? Or optimistic? Somewhere in between? Take a listen and let me know what you think.
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Patch’s AI Experiment: Thousands of Newsletters, Zero Humans

YouTube global head of music Lyor Cohen talks with Recode’s Peter Kafka about the launch of YouTube Music, a $10-a-month music subscription service that will replace YouTube Red. Cohen says giving the consumers the choice of paying with money or “paying with your eyeballs” by watching ads is the right direction for the music industry, and will liberate artists to make music on their terms. He also talks about a now-infamous photo tweeted by rapper Kanye West in which Cohen and fellow music exec Lucian Grainge are hugging with West, who is wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat. Cohen says he’s “disappointed” in many of West’s political views and wants him to focus on music over politics; however, he also argues that consumers don’t understand the suffering artists like West go through, and that social media can exacerbate that pain.
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YouTube's Lyor Cohen on YouTube Music, Childish Gambino and Kanye West

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