After Vanessa finished writing about Taylor in 2009, Natalie would start following Taylor’s career while working at Forbes, and would discover not only a talented artist, but a savvy businesswoman. Brittany Spanos, senior writer at Rolling Stone, joins the conversation to talk about the various feuds Taylor has had — including Kanye’s infamous VMA interruption and her artistic differences with Scott Borchetta. As the once bullied middle school girl immortalizes each fight and breakup in chart-topping songs, has Taylor gone from bullied to bully?

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