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Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Freakonomics co-author Stephen J. Dubner uncovers the hidden side of everything. Why is it safer to fly in an airplane than drive a car? How do we decide whom to marry? Why is the media so full of bad news? Also: things you never knew you wanted to know about wolves, bananas, pollution, search engines, and the quirks of human behavior.

To get every show in the Freakonomics Radio Network without ads and a monthly bonus episode of Freakonomics Radio, start a free trial for SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

Freakonomics Radio

The iconic department store calls the parade its “gift to the nation.” With 30 million TV viewers, it’s also a big moneymaker — at least we think it is: when it comes to parade economics, Macy’s is famously tight-lipped. In this 2024 episode, we try to loosen them up. (Part one of a two-part series.)

 

SOURCES: • John Cheney, carpenter at Macy’s Studios.
Will Coss • , vice president and executive producer of Macy’s Studios.
Jeff Kinney • , author, cartoonist, and owner of An Unlikely Story Bookstore and Café.
Kevin Lynch • , vice president of global helium at Messer.
 • Jen Neal, executive vice president of live events and specials for NBCUniversal Entertainment.
Tony Spring • , chairman and C.E.O. of Macy’s Inc.
Jessica Tisch • , New York City police commissioner, former commissioner of the New York City Department of Sanitation.
Dawn Tolson • , executive director of Citywide Event Coordination and Management and the Street Activity Permit Office for the City of New York.

 

RESOURCES:Macy’s: The Store. The Star. The Story., • by Robert M. Grippo (2009).
History of Macy’s of New York, 1853-1919: Chapters in the Evolution of the Department Store • , by Ralph M. Hower (1943).
Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade • .

 

EXTRAS: • "
Helium • ," by 
The Economics of Everyday Things • (2024).

 
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Is Macy’s Thanksgiving Parade Its Most Valuable Asset? (Update)

A Trump executive order is giving retail investors more access to private markets. Is that a golden opportunity — or fool’s gold?

 

SOURCES:Elisabeth de Fontenay, • professor of law at Duke University.
Steven Kaplan • , professor of entrepreneurship and finance at the University of Chicago.

 

RESOURCES: • "
Democratizing Access to Alternative Assets for 401(k) Investors • ," 
(The White House, • 2025).
 • "
The (Heterogeneous) Economic Effects of Private Equity Buyouts • ," by Steven J. Davis, John Haltiwanger, Kyle Handley, Ben Lipsius, Josh Lerner, and Javier Miranda (Management Science, 2025).
 • "
Risk-Adjusted Returns of Private Equity Funds: A New Approach • ," by Arthur G. Korteweg and Stefan Nagel (
The Review of Financial Studies • , 2025).
 • "
The Effects of Management Buyouts on Operating Performance and Value • ," by Steven Kaplan 
(Journal of Financial Economics, • 1989).

 

EXTRAS: • "
The Biden Policy That Trump Hasn't Touched • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2025).
 • "
Should Companies Be Owned by Their Workers? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).
 • "
Do You Know Who Owns Your Vet? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).
 • "
Are Private Equity Firms Plundering the U.S. Economy? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 
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654. Is the Public Ready for Private Equity?

Thoroughbred auction prices keep setting records. But tracks are closing, gambling revenues are falling, and the sport is increasingly reliant on subsidies. Is that the kind of long shot anybody wants? (Part three of a series, “The Horse Is Us.”)

 

SOURCES:Anne Archer Hinkle • , owner and director of Hinkle Farms.
Cormac Breathnach • , senior director of sales operations at Keeneland.
Emily Plant • , thoroughbred researcher and statistician, associate professor of marketing at the University of Montana.
Mark Taylor • , president of Taylor Made Farm.
Marshall Gramm • , horse player, professor of economics at Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee.
Richard Migliore • , head racing analyst for Fox Sports and New York Racing Association, retired jockey.
Sean Feld • , bloodstock agent.
 • Scott Heider, managing principal of Chartwell Capital, thoroughbred investor.
Thomas Lambert • , economist at the University of Louisville.

 

RESOURCES:Death of a Racehorse: An American Story, • by Katie Bo Lillis (2025).
 • "
State of the States 2025: The AGA Analysis of the Commercial Casino Industry • ," 
(American Gaming • 
Association, • 2025).
 • "
An Empirical Analysis of Reputation Effects and Network Centrality in a Multi-Agency Context • ," by Emily Plant 
(University of Kentucky, • 2010).
Calculated Bets: Computers, Gambling, and Mathematical Modeling to Win (Outlooks), • by Steven Skiena (2001).
Bill Oppenheim and Emily Plant's Thoroughbred Market Reports • .
Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority • .

 
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653. Does Horse Racing Have a Future?

The world has changed a good bit since Freakonomics was first published. In this live anniversary episode, Stephen Dubner tells Geoff Bennett of PBS NewsHour everything he has learned since then. Happy birthday, Freakonomics.

 

SOURCES:Geoff Bennett • , co-anchor and co-managing editor of PBS News Hour.

 

RESOURCES:Freakonomics Twentieth Anniversary Edition: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything, • by Stephen Dubner and Steve Levitt (2025).

 
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What Happens When You Turn 20

How does Kentucky keep itself atop the thoroughbred industry? Is a champion stallion really worth $200,000 per date? And how many hands can one jockey have? (Part two of a series, “The Horse Is Us.”)

 

SOURCES:Emily Plant • , thoroughbred researcher and statistician.
Jill Stowe • , professor of economics at the University of Kentucky.
Mark Taylor • , president of Taylor Made Farm.
Oscar Gonzales • , vice chair of the California Horse Racing Board.
Richard Migliore • , head racing analyst for Fox Sports and New York Racing Association, retired jockey.

 

RESOURCES: • "
Horse racing industry braces for crackdown on illegal immigration • ," by Ximena Bustillo 
(NPR, • 2025).
 • "
Conceptualizing the Kentucky Horse Industry as an Economic Cluster • ," by Lori Garkovich 
(Bluegrass Equine Digest, 2009).
 
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652. Inside the Horse-Industrial Complex

For most of human history, horsepower made the world go. Then came the machines. So why are there still seven million horses in America? (Part one of a series, “The Horse Is Us.”)

 

SOURCES:Ann N. Greene • , historian of 19th century America, retired professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
Constance Hunter • , chief economist at the Economist Intelligence Unit.
 • Elizabeth Bortuzzo, professional horse rider.
Mark Paul • , professor of economics at Rutgers University.
Peter Frankopan • , professor of global history at Oxford History.

 

RESOURCES: • "
2023 Economic Impact Study of the U.S. Horse Industry • ," (
American Horse Council Foundation • , 2024).
Riding to Arms, • by Charles Caramello (2022).
The Horse in the City, • by Clay McShane and Joel Tarr (2011).
Horses at Work, • by Ann Norton Greene (2008).

 
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651. The Ultimate Dance Partner

Spotify, Oracle, and Comcast have each recently announced they’re going with co-C.E.O.s. In this 2023 episode, we dig into the research and hear firsthand stories of triumph and disaster. Also: lessons from computer programmers, Simon and Garfunkel, and bears versus alligators. 

 

SOURCES:Jim Balsillie • , retired chairman and co-C.E.O. of Research In Motion.
Mike Cannon-Brookes • , co-founder and C.E.O. of Atlassian.
Scott Farquhar • , co-founder and former co-C.E.O. of Atlassian.
Marc Feigen • , C.E.O. advisor.
Jeffrey Sonnenfeld • , professor of management studies and senior associate dean at the Yale School of Management and founding president of the Chief Executive Leadership Institute.
Laurie Williams • , professor of computer science at North Carolina State University.

 

RESOURCES: • "
Scott Farquhar to resign as joint CEO of Atlassian • ," by Jonathan Barrett 
(The Guardian, • 2024).
 • "
Is It Time to Consider Co-C.E.O.s? • " by Marc A. Feigen, Michael Jenkins, and Anton Warendh (
Harvard Business Review, • 2022).
 • "
The Costs and Benefits of Pair Programming • ," by Alistair Cockburn and Laurie Williams (2000).
 • "
Strengthening the Case for Pair Programming • ," by Laurie Williams, Robert R. Kessler, Ward Cunningham, and Ron Jeffries (
IEEE Software, • 2000).

 

EXTRAS: • "
The Secret Life of a C.E.O. • ," series by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2018).

 
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Are Two C.E.O.s Better Than One? (Update)

The U.S. has a physician shortage, created in part by a century-old reform that shut down bad medical schools. But why haven’t we filled the gap? Why are some physicians so unhappy? And which is worse: a bad doctor or no doctor at all?

 

SOURCES:Karen Clay • , professor of economics and public policy at Carnegie Mellon University.
Rochelle Walensky • , physician-scientist and former director of the CDC.

 

RESOURCES: • "
Medical School Closures, Market Adjustment, and Mortality in the Flexner Report Era • ," by Karen Clay, Grant Miller, Margarita Portnykh, and Ethan Schmick 
(National Bureau of Economic Research, • 2025).
 • "
Application Overload — A Call to Reduce the Burden of Applying to Medical School • ," by Rochelle Walensky and Loren Walensky 
(New England Journal of Medicine, • 2025).
 • "
Challenges to the Future of a Robust Physician Workforce in the United States • ," by Rochelle Walensky and Nicole McCann 
(New England Journal of Medicine, • 2025).
 • "
The first step to addressing the physician shortage • ," by Rochelle Walensky and Nicole McCann 
(STAT, • 2025).
 • "
Physician Workforce: Projections, 2022-2037 • ," 
(National Center for Health Workforce Analysis, • 2024).
 • “
Projected Estimates of African American Medical Graduates of Closed Historically Black Medical Schools • ,” by Kendall Campbell, Irma Corral, Jhojana Infante Linares, and Dmitry Tumin (
JAMA Network, • 2020).
 • "
Medical Education in the United States and Canada • ," by Abraham Flexner 
(The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, • 1910).

 

EXTRAS: • "
Is the Air Traffic Control System Broken? • " series by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2025).
 • "
Are You Ready for the Elder Swell? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2025).
 • "
Are Private Equity Firms Plundering the U.S. Economy? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 
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650. The Doctor Won’t See You Now

For the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics, Debbie Millman of Design Matters interviews Stephen Dubner about his upbringing, his writing career, and why it's important to “swing your swing.” Plus: a sneak peek at a new project.

 

SOURCES:Debbie Millman • , writer and host of 
Design Matters with Debbie Millman.
 

RESOURCES: • "
Stephen J. Dubner • ," by 
Design Matters with Debbie Millman • (2025).
Turbulent Souls: A Catholic Son's Return To His Jewish Family • , by Stephen Dubner (1999).
 • "
Choosing My Religion • ," by Stephen Dubner 
(New York Times, • 1996).

 

EXTRAS: • "
In Search of the Real Adam Smith • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2022).

 
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A Question-Asker Becomes a Question-Answerer

Arthur Brooks, an economist and former head of the American Enterprise Institute, believes that there is only one remedy for our political polarization: love. In this 2021 episode, we ask if Brooks is a fool for thinking this — and if perhaps you are his kind of fool?

 

SOURCES:Arthur Brooks • , professor of public and nonprofit leadership at Harvard University.

 

RESOURCES: • “
Vital Statistics on Congress • ,” by Molly Reynolds and Naomi Maehr (
Brookings Institute, • 2024).
Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence, • by Anna Lembke (2021).
 • “
Reading Too Much Political News Is Bad for Your Well-Being • ,” by Arthur Brooks (
The Atlantic, • 2020).
Love Your Enemies: How Decent People Can Save America from the Culture of Contempt, • by Arthur Brooks (2019).
 • “
This 75-Year Harvard Study Found the 1 Secret to Leading a Fulfilling Life • ,” by Melanie Curtin (
Inc., • 2017).
The Conservative Heart: How to Build a Fairer, Happier, and More Prosperous America, • by Arthur Brooks (2015).
 • “
Grin and Bear It: The Influence of Manipulated Facial Expression on the Stress Response • ,” by Tara Kraft and Sarah Pressman (
Psychological Science, • 2012).

 

EXTRAS: • “
Why Is U.S. Media So Negative? • ” by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2021).

 
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Is Macy’s Thanksgiving Parade Its Most Valuable Asset? (Update)

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