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Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Freakonomics co-author Stephen J. Dubner uncovers the hidden side of everything. Why is it safer to fly in an airplane than drive a car? How do we decide whom to marry? Why is the media so full of bad news? Also: things you never knew you wanted to know about wolves, bananas, pollution, search engines, and the quirks of human behavior.

To get every show in the Freakonomics Radio Network without ads and a monthly bonus episode of Freakonomics Radio, start a free trial for SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

Freakonomics Radio

Is it tradition … or protectionism? And what happens when the bourbon boom turns into a glut?

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Andrew Muhammad • , agricultural economist at the University of Tennessee.

 Brad Patrick • , executive in residence and lecturer at the University of Kentucky Gatton College of Business and Economics, bourbon fellow at the James B. Beam Institute for Kentucky Spirits.

 Danny Kahn • , master distiller and distillation and aging operations director at Sazerac.

 Ken Troske • , labor economist and chair of the economics department at the University of Kentucky.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 • "
America's Bourbon Boom Is Over. Now the Hangover Is Here • ," by Aaron Tilley and Sadie Gurman (
The Wall Street Journal • , 2024).

 Bourbon Empire: The Past and Future of America's Whiskey • , by Reid Mitenbuler (2015).

 • "
Code of Federal Regulations: Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits • ," (
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations) • .

 

 
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669. Why Is 95 Percent of the World’s Bourbon Made in Kentucky?

As one researcher told us: “We’ve engineered a world where the most distracting device ever made is also the one we use to listen to music in the car." A new study tries to measure the cost.

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Bapu Jena • , economist, physician, and professor at Harvard Medical School.

 Chris Worsham • , pulmonary and critical-care physician at Mass General Hospital, health-policy and public-health researcher at Harvard Medical School.

 Vishal Patel • , surgery resident at Brigham and Women's Hospital, researcher at Harvard Medical School.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 • "
Smartphones, Online Music Streaming, and Traffic Fatalities • ," by Vishal Patel, Christopher Worsham, Michael Liu, and Bapu Jena 
(NBER, • 2026).

 Random Acts of Medicine: The Hidden Forces That Sway Doctors, Impact Patients, and Shape Our Health • , by Anupam Jena and Christopher Worsham (2023).

 • "
Mortality and treatment patterns among patients hospitalized with acute cardiovascular conditions during dates of national cardiology meetings • ," by Bapu Jena, Vinay Prasad, Dana Goldman, and John Romley 
(JAMA Internal Medicine, • 2015).

 • "
Road Crash Fatalities on US Income Tax Days • ," by Donald Redelmeier and Christopher Yarnell 
(JAMA, • 2012).

 • "
Memories of colonoscopy: a randomized trial • ," by Donald Redelmeier, Joel Katz, and Daniel Kahneman 
(PAIN, • 2003).

 

 

 EXTRAS: • 

 • "
Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).

 • "
Why Is Flying Safer Than Driving? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 • "
Why Is the U.S. So Good at Killing Pedestrians? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 

 
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668. Do Taylor Swift and Bad Bunny Have Blood on Their Hands?

In blue cities across the country, unions and politicians want to ban self-driving cars. In this episode from the Search Engine podcast, PJ Vogt visits Boston to sort the facts from the propaganda. (Part two of a two-part series.)

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Carl Richardson • , ADA coordinator for the Massachusetts State House, president of the Guide Dog Users of Massachusetts.

 Gabriela Coletta Zapata • , Boston City councilor from District 1.

 Julia Mejia • , Boston City councilor at-large.

 Timothy B. Lee • , author of 
Understanding AI • newsletter.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 • "
Waymo Hits a Rough Patch in Washington, DC • ," by Aarian Marshall 
(WIRED, • 2026).

 • "
New York drops plan to legalize robotaxis in setback for Waymo • ," by Andrew J. Hawkins 
(The Verge, • 2026).

 • "
Waymo’s next five cities are all in red states • ," by Timothy B. Lee and Kai Williams 
(Understanding AI, • 2025).

 • "
What Waymo could mean for Bostonians with disabilities: independence at their fingertips • ," by Carl Richardson 
(Boston Globe, • 2025).

 • "
Planning, Development and Transportation on July 24, 2025 • ," 
(Boston City Council, • 2025).

 • "
Ride-Hailing Drivers in Massachusetts Win Right to Unionize • ," by Eli Tan 
(The New York Times, • 2024).

 • "
East Coast Longshore Workers May Soon Strike • ," by Joe Demanuelle-Hall 
(Jacobin, • 2024).

 

 

 EXTRAS: • 

 • "
The Fascinatingly Mundane Secrets of the World’s Most Exclusive Nightclub • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).

 Search Engine • , podcast by PJ Vogt.

 

 
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In a Driverless World, Who Loses and Who Wins?

How a secret project at Google led to driverless cars on American roads. 

Freakonomics Radio shares a story from our friends at Search Engine. (Part one of a two-part series.)

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Alex Davies • , author of 
Driven: The Race To Create the Autonomous Car • .

 Chris Urmson • , co-founder and C.E.O. of Aurora.

 Don Burnette • , founder and C.E.O. of Kodiak AI.

 PJ Vogt • , reporter, writer, and host of the 
Search Engine • podcast.

 Sebastian Thrun • , roboticist, C.E.O. of Sage AI Labs, adjunct faculty at Stanford University.

 Timothy B. Lee • , author of 
Understanding AI • newsletter.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 • "
Very few of Waymo’s most serious crashes were Waymo’s fault • ," by Kai Williams 
(Understand • 
AI, • 2025).

 Driven: The Race to Create the Autonomous Car, • by Alex Davies (2021).

 • "
An Oral History of the Darpa Grand Challenge, the Grueling Robot Race That Launched the Self-Driving Car • ," by Alex Davies 
(WIRED, • 2017).

 Understanding AI, • newsletter on Substack.

 Waymo Safety Dashboard • .

 

 

 EXTRAS: • 

 • "
The Fascinatingly Mundane Secrets of the World’s Most Exclusive Nightclub • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).

 Search Engine, • podcast by PJ Vogt.

 

 
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Are Human Drivers Finally Obsolete?

A ruthless (and ruthlessly efficient) industry is using digital tools to supercharge one of the world’s oldest behaviors. We look at how the industry works, and ask the scam-fighters what they’re doing about it.

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Kati Daffan • , former assistant director at the Federal Trade Commission's Division of Marketing Practices.

 Marti DeLiema • , assistant professor of social work at the University of Minnesota.

 Mark Frank • , professor of communications at the University at Buffalo.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 • "
Cambodian Scam Tycoon Wanted by U.S. Extradited to China • ," by Gabriele Steinhauser 
(Wall Street Journal, • 2026).

 • "
The Rise and Fall Of Accused Cambodian Scam Kingpin Chen Zhi • ," by Low De Wei 
(Bloomberg, • 2026).

 • "
Protecting Older Consumers 2024-2025 • ," by the Federal Trade Commission (2025).

 • "
Meta is earning a fortune on a deluge of fraudulent ads, documents show • ," by Jeff Horwitz 
(Reuters, • 2025).

 • "
Exposed to Scams: What Separates Victims from Non-victims? • ," by Marti DeLiema, Emma Fletcher, Christine Kieffer, Gary Mottola, Rubens Pessanha, and Melissa Trumpower 
(Stanford Center on Longevity, • 2019).

 • "
Why do Nigerian Scammers Say They are from Nigeria? • ," by Cormac Herley 
(Microsoft Research, • 2016).

 Thinking, Fast and Slow, • by Daniel Kahneman (2013).

 FTC Fraud Reporting Portal • .

 

 
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667. Here’s Why You Are Constantly Fighting Off Scammers

Economists don’t usually talk about “culture.” But Joel Mokyr argues that it’s the engine of innovation — and the Nobel Prize committee agreed. Stephen Dubner sits down for a thousand-year conversation (including advice!) with the new Nobel laureate.

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Joel Mokyr • , economic historian at Northwestern University.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 Two Paths to Prosperity: Culture and Institutions in Europe and China, 1000–2000, • by Avner Greif, Joel Mokyr, and, Guido Tabellini (2025).

 • "
The Outsize Role of Immigrants in US Innovation • ," by Shai Bernstein, Rebecca Diamond, Abhisit Jiranaphawiboon, Timothy McQuade, and Beatriz Pousada 
(NBER, • 2023).

 A Culture of Growth: The Origins of the Modern Economy, • by Joel Mokyr (2016).

 Why Nations Fail: The Origins of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty, • by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson (2012).

 • "
The Economics of Being Jewish • ," by Joel Mokyr (
Critical Review, 2011 • ).

 

 
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666. This Is How Progress Happens

Just beneath the surface of the global economy, there is a hidden layer of dealmakers for whom war, chaos, and sanctions can be a great business opportunity. In this updated episode from 2025, journalists Javier Blas and Jack Farchy help us shine a light on the shadowy realm of commodity traders.

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Javier Blas • , opinion columnist at Bloomberg News.

 Jack Farchy • , energy and commodities senior reporter at Bloomberg News.

 
 RESOURCES: • 

 The World For Sale: Money, Power, and the Traders Who Barter the Earth's Resources, • by Javier Blas and Jack Farchy (2021)

 The King of Oil: The Secret Lives of Marc Rich, • by Daniel Ammann (2010).

 
 EXTRAS: • 

 • "
How the Supermarket Helped America Win the Cold War (Update) • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).

 • "
The First Great American Industry • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 

 
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The Most Powerful People You’ve Never Heard Of (Update)

... of bad reviews, meager financing, or artificial intelligence. But he is worried that the world is full of sloppy thinkers who mistake facts for the truth.

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Werner Herzog • , writer, filmmaker, and actor.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 The Future of Truth, • by Werner Herzog (2025).

 Every Man for Himself and God Against All: A Memoir, • by Werner Herzog (2023).

 

 

 EXTRAS: • 

 • "
When Did We All Start Watching Documentaries? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2025).

 • "
Werner Herzog Thinks His Films Are a Distraction • ," by 
People I (Mostly) Admire • (2023).

 

 
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665. Werner Herzog Isn’t Afraid ...

Existing drugs can sometimes be repurposed to treat rare diseases. But making that match can be hard — and the financial incentives are weak. Guest host Steve Levitt tries to solve the puzzle.

 

 SOURCES: • 

 Chris Snyder • , professor of economics at Dartmouth College.

 David Fajgenbaum • , co-founder and president of Every Cure, physician-scientist at the University of Pennsylvania.

 Heather Stone • , health science policy analyst at the Food & Drug Administration.

 Sarrin Chethik • , senior policy analyst at the Market Shaping Accelerator.

 

 

 RESOURCES: • 

 Chasing My Cure: A Doctor's Race to Turn Hope into Action; A Memoir, • by David Fajgenbaum (2019).

 Strong Medicine: Creating Incentives for Pharmaceutical Research on Neglected Diseases, • by Michael Kremer and Rachel Glennerster (2016).

 Market Shaping Accelerator • .

 CURE ID Registry • .

 

 
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664. Are Thousands of Medical Cures Hiding in Plain Sight?

When Richard Thaler first published Nudge, the world was just starting to believe in his brand of behavioral economics. In this 2021 episode, we ask: How has nudge theory held up in the face of a global financial meltdown, a pandemic, and other existential crises?

 

SOURCES:Richard Thaler • , professor of economics at the University of Chicago.

 

RESOURCES:Nudge: The Final Edition • , by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein (2021).
Sludge: What Stops Us from Getting Things Done and What to Do About It, • by Cass Sunstein (2021).
 • "
Sludge: Americans Spend 11.4 Billion Hours Filling Out Federal Paperwork • ," by Cass Sunstein (
Big Think, • 2021).
 • "
Carbon Taxation in Sweden • ," by Government Offices of Sweden Ministry of Finance (2021).
 • "
The Climate Club: How to Fix a Failing Global Effort • ," by William Nordhaus (Foreign Affairs, 2020).
 • "
Organ Donation: Presumed Consent and Focusing on What Matters • ," by Rebecca Brown (
The Journal of Medical Ethics Blog • , 2017).

 

EXTRAS: • "
Sludge • ," series by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2025).
“People Aren’t Dumb. The World Is Hard. (Ep. 340 Rebroadcast) • ,” by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2018).

 
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In a Driverless World, Who Loses and Who Wins?

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