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The Verge

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

Decoder with Nilay Patel

My guest today is Sonos CEO Tom Conrad. Tom was on the board at Sonos during the disastrous 2024 app redesign that threatened to crash the entire brand, and he took over as interim CEO to right the ship during that period. About a year ago, he took the permanent role. 

I have been dying to have Tom on the show to talk about how the board decided to move on from previous CEO Patrick Spence, how he diagnosed the issues inside the company, and what decisions he made to fix them. Plus. Tom was willing to get into the weeds and nerd out with me, and I think this one is pretty fun because of it.

Links: 

 After two years of turmoil, Sonos attempts a triumphant return | The Verge

 How Sonos’ Tom Conrad Is reshaping the brand after app disaster | Bloomberg

 An in-depth interview with Sonos interim CEO Tom Conrad | The Verge (2025)

 Sonos’ smart assistant is expanding from music to home control | The Verge

 Inside Sonos’ decision to sue Google — and how it won | Decoder (2022)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Sonos rebooted itself

It’s an election year, with a shocking amount of tech policy at stake, and Gov.Hochul has taken strong positions on almost every major tech issue there is. You'll hear us talk about the settlement Meta reached with dozens of states, including New York, and about widespread age verification. 

We also discussed 3D printing ghost guns; surveillance and Flock cameras; the politics of building — or not building — AI data centers; and, of course, Mayor Zohran Mamdani.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 New Yorkers will need to verify their age for algorithmic feeds | The Verge

 The cat-and-mouse game over 3D-printed guns has begun | The Verge

 Hochul says she’s using AI to analyze ‘every single rule’ in New York | The Verge

 NY becomes the first state to enact a data center moratorium | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Governor Kathy Hochul thinks AI should be ‘less evil’

Today, I’m talking with Hayden Field, The Verge’s senior AI reporter, about some pure Decoder bait: the seemingly-endless org chart changes at OpenAI, and how all of them seem to consolidate power under cofounder Greg Brockman, the company’s president.

While Sam Altman is the CEO and still OpenAI’s most public face, Brockman has amassed enormous power and influence within the top ranks of the company as other senior leaders have left in rapid succession. So I wanted Hayden to break down for me what’s going on at OpenAI, and the increasingly important role Greg Brockman will play in its future.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 It’s Greg Brockman’s OpenAI now | The Verge

 OpenAI’s Brockman brushes off concerns about leadership changes | CNBC

 Sam Altman on building OpenAI & betting on the impossible | David Senra

 OpenAI’s Q2 sales show tepid growth compared to Anthropic | WSJ

 Anthropic's revenue run rate reportedly surpasses $65 billion pre-IPO | Axios

 OpenAI President On Reinventing Computers | Johanna Stern / YouTube

 Greg Brockman takes control of OpenAI’s products in latest shake-up | Wired

 OpenAI’s president is a Trump mega-donor | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

OpenAI's executive exodus has one big winner

Tim Cadogan is CEO of GoFundMe, the for-profit platform where you can donate to help people with everything from medical expenses to little league uniforms to starting a new business.

Tim took over as CEO in March 2020 — a chaotic moment when GoFundMe became a load-bearing part of American culture. So you can imagine I had a lot of questions for Tim, how he thinks about all this, and how he makes some very tough decisions on what money to make and what money not to make. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 The GoFundMe CEO wants you to ask: ‘How can I help?’ | New York TImes

 GoFundMe CEO: We weren't meant to replace COVID relief | USA Today

 GoFundMe Is a healthcare utility now | The Atlantic

 As Gaza is bombarded, GoFundMe donations are stuck in limbo | The Verge

 For the uninsured, crowdfunding provides little help in paying for healthcare | University of Washington

 Oregon nonprofits claim GoFundMe impersonated them | Central Oregon Daily News

 The causes and consequences of medical crowdfunding | ScienceDirect

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How GoFundMe became America's backup plan

My guest today is Robert Hart, The Verge’s London-based AI reporter. Robert recently wrote a fantastic story for us about the debate raging inside the world of mathematics — and the existential crisis over what it means that new frontier AI models have become very good at math in a shockingly short period of time. 

I wanted to dive into all of this with Robert, who actually spoke to some of the most accomplished mathematicians working today to figure out what’s hype and what’s real — and to get a sense of just how exciting, and how scary, all of this is. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 The AI takeover of mathematics has begun | The Verge

 Ten advances in mathematics and theoretical computer science | OpenAI

 An unreleased Anthropic model made progress on the Riemann hypothesis| TechCrunch

 OpenAI’s amazing — but vastly oversold — new model Astra | Gary Marcus

 OpenAI’s math breakthrough played to AI’s strengths | Understanding AI

 Why the legendary Erdős problems are falling to AI | Quanta

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our supervising producer is Greg Ott, and our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the AI crisis in math

Today I’m talking to Ben Smith, the editor-in-chief of Semafor. Ben ran BuzzFeed News at the height of the Facebook traffic boom, and even wrote a book about it, called Traffic, which he discussed with me on Decoder back in 2023. 

Semafor, which is only four years old, is now a fast-growing and profitable media company, which makes about half of its revenue from events. So I wanted to talk to Ben about how that all works, and what it feels like to navigate the ethical conflicts that seem to be everywhere in media right now. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Jonah Peretti explains why he sold BuzzFeed | Decoder

 What’s after the social media era in news? | Decoder (2023)

 Semafor raises $30 Million after first profitable year | The Wrap

 Semafor’s new AI tool helped boil down its flagship conference | Nieman Lab

 Semafor launches Silicon Valley & The World | Semafor

 Semafor takes aim at Davos as events surpass half Its revenue | Adweek

 Semafor Is Betting Big on 'Anti-Scale' Video | Adweek

 Semafor wants to be ‘business outlet of record in the Gulf” | Press Gazette

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our Supervising Producer is Greg Ott and our Editorial Director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's about ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith

My guest today is The Verge’s Hayden Field, and we’re discussing a question that’s been rocketing around the tech industry for the past week: Is Google losing the AI race?

That's because last week, the company announced a bombshell reorganization of its AI division. You can read these moves, and Google’s reaction, in a lot of different ways. So I really wanted to sit down with Hayden to dig into some of the smartest analysis we’ve seen this past week, and what we think is really going on here.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 The messy politics behind Google’s big AI shakeup | The Verge

 Gemini is cooked but GCP is cooking | SemiAnalysis

 Google announced a major shakeup of its top AI leadership | The Verge

 AI lab musical chairs hits Google the hardest | Axios

 Demis Hassabis said this might be the ‘foothills of the singularity.’ What? | The Verge

 Google’s AI architect lived rent-free in Elon Musk’s head | The Verge

 Sundar Pichai on AI, search, and the future of the web | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our supervising producer is Greg Ott, and our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Does Google even want to win in AI?

My guest today is Lila Snyder, the CEO of Bose. Lila was last on the show about four years ago, and since then she’s dramatically rearchitected the company — she sold off Bose Professional, acquired the high end audio brands McIntosh Labs and Sonus faber, and, perhaps most importantly, started licensing all that core Bose technology to other companies.

That big change in the business comes with a big change in structure. Becoming a software company in addition to a product company comes with a whole new set of challenges, and Lila and I got into how it’s all working. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

 How Bose competes with AirPods, with CEO Lila Snyder | Decoder (2022)

 Bose thinks it can be a media company for some reason | The Verge

 Bose acquires premium audio brand McIntosh | The Verge

 Bose reinvented itself just in time. Now comes the tricky part | Wired

 Bose sells off its premium division after 50 years | Bose

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our supervising producer is Greg Ott, and our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bose CEO Lila Snyder on the fight for high-quality audio

Our guest today is Gaby Del Valle, a policy reporter here at The Verge, and we’re discussing the growing backlash against AI data centers. Gaby recently reported a fantastic piece about Hernando County, Florida, where last month the county commission unanimously approved a year-long moratorium on data center construction.

So I wanted Gaby to talk me through what these protests look like on the ground, from voters whose party affiliations have typically aligned them with big business.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Right-wingers protesting data centers have a lot in common with the left | The Verge

 No data centers in my backyard | Jasmine Sun

 Who’s afraid of the big, bad GPU? | The Verge 

 NY becomes the first state to enact a data center moratorium | The Verge

 The fight against AI data centers is just beginning | The Verge

 Florida gives millions in tax breaks to data centers under DeSantis-backed law | Tampa Bay Times

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our supervising producer is Greg Ott, and our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The left and right agree on one thing: no data centers

Today, I’m talking with Toni Schneider, the new head of social platform Bluesky who formally took over after a short stint as interim CEO. This is one of my favorite kinds of interviews, because a couple years ago we had Bluesky’s prior CEO, Jay Graber, on the show — she’s now the company’s chief innovation officer. All of that kind of shuffle is pure Decoder bait: a new CEO often brings with them new priorities, which is perhaps the most Decoder subject of all.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge⁠.

Links: 

 Bluesky CEO Jay Graber | Decoder (2024)

 Bluesky CEO Jay Graber steps down | TechCrunch

 Staying in the game | Toni Schneider

 The messy WordPress drama, explained | The Verge

 Proton CTO Bart Butler | Decoder

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bluesky’s new CEO wants a big tent, not a bubble

Today on Decoder, I want to lay out an idea that's been banging around my head for weeks now as we've been reporting on AI and having conversations here on this show. I've been calling it software brain, and it's a particular way of seeing the world that fits everything into algorithms, databases and loops. 

Software brain is powerful stuff. It's a way of thinking that basically created our modern world. But software thinking has also been turbocharged by AI in a way that I think helps explain the enormous gap between how excited the tech industry is about the technology and how regular people are growing to dislike it more and more over time.

Links: 

 Why software Is eating the world | Marc Andreessen

 Gen Z’s love-hate relationship with AI | The Verge

 The attacks on Sam Altman are a warning for the AI world | The Verge

 Silicon Valley has forgotten what normal people want | The Verge

 I saw something new in San Francisco | The New York Times

 Anthropic CEO issues dire warning about white-collar work | The Street

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

THE PEOPLE DO NOT YEARN FOR AUTOMATION

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