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BBC News

Big Boss Interview is where the most high-profile chief executives and entrepreneurs come to give you their insights and experiences of running the world's biggest and well-known businesses. The series is presented by Sean Farrington, Felicity Hannah and Will Bain, who you'd normally hear presenting the business news on BBC Radio 4's Today programme as well as BBC 5 Live's Wake Up To Money. Each week they'll be finding out just what it takes to run a huge organisation and what the day to day challenges and opportunities are. You can get in contact with the team by emailing bigboss@bbc.co.uk

Business Matters

AI and drone warfare will force a “complete reimagining” of how conflict risk is calculated and insured, the chief executive of Lloyd’s of London has warned, because traditional assumptions about how wars escalate may no longer hold.

Patrick Tiernan, who runs the 337-year-old insurance marketplace, told the Big Boss Interview that autonomous weapons and AI-driven decision-making could remove the warning signs and diplomatic pauses that have historically allowed insurers to adjust cover as conflicts intensify.

“When we talk about the way war is insured at the moment, it assumes that it’ll build up, that there’ll be breaks in there, and that you can increase the cover,” he said. “It’s very possible that won’t be the case as there is more drone warfare, more artificial intelligence in the decision-making. So we’re going to have to completely reimagine how we cover that.”

His warning comes as governments increase defence spending and NATO allies reassess their military commitments. Tiernan said Lloyd’s must ensure it has the capacity to insure growth in defence, energy and infrastructure, while being clearer about which forms of defence it supports.

He said the current risk environment is unlike anything in Lloyd’s history, with physical infrastructure, data and cyber systems, financial services and the international rules-based order all under pressure at the same time. “We are very underprepared for the risks we’re facing because we rely on things that maybe won’t be there tomorrow,” he said.

Tiernan also warned that the “protection gap” between economic losses and what is actually insured is widening. He said businesses and governments can no longer assume the state will step in when disaster strikes, arguing that high debt levels mean governments may not have the same financial firepower they had in the past.

He called on governments to spell out what they will and will not protect, so private capital can price the remaining risk. Businesses, he said, are being “wilfully ignorant” if they fail to understand their exposure.

A major state-backed cyberattack remains one of Lloyd’s realistic disaster scenarios and could be “deeply crippling” to the global economy, Tiernan said. He added that take-up of cyber insurance remains too low, particularly among European SMEs, despite policies offering prevention and resilience support as well as financial cover.

On the Strait of Hormuz, Tiernan said Lloyd’s drew on lessons from previous Gulf shipping disruption and the Black Sea closure during the Ukraine war. Insurance capacity remained available, he said, with crew safety rather than the price of cover the main factor affecting shipping.

He also argued that the insurance industry, and perhaps the wider economy, has lost some of its appetite for calculated risk since the financial crisis. Pointing to opportunities in undersea data centres, autonomous vehicles and AI-led drug development, he said: “The risk of missing out is greater than the risk of overstepping.”

On climate, Tiernan said Lloyd’s has added US flood, severe convective storm and fire to its realistic disaster scenarios, with flood, fire and drought all on an upward trajectory. He defended Lloyd’s continued insurance of legal, unsanctioned fossil fuel activity, but said the market should use its capital to support new energy technologies including small modular reactors, nuclear fusion and renewables.

#47 Lloyd's of London CEO: Autonomous Weapons Are Rewriting War Risk

Britain should stop taxing workers and start taxing robots, according to the chief executive of one of the country's biggest recruitment firms, who says the UK's tax system is pointing in entirely the wrong direction at the worst possible moment.

James Reed, CEO of Reed Recruitment, told the Big Boss Interview that the government is taxing employers who hire young people "to pick up beer glasses in gardens" whilst letting AI and automation — the technologies actively replacing those workers — go entirely untaxed. His mantra: "Back humans, tax robots." And he wants the next prime minister and chancellor to make it the centrepiece of a wholesale redesign of how Britain raises revenue.

Reed argues this is not a fringe idea but an inevitability. "Taxation follows wealth," he said. "When you see these companies being valued at over a trillion, that's where the action is. So that's where the taxation should follow." He envisions transaction-based levies on AI services and automation — "rather like VAT" — or surcharges on businesses that replace human workers with machines. He acknowledged it would "take some designing" but said the principle is simple: the robots are generating the wealth, so the robots should be taxed.

The urgency, he said, is driven by the collision of two forces. The first is the October 2024 budget, which Reed described as a "historic mistake." The £25 billion employers' National Insurance increase was, in his words, "a tax on jobs" that caused clients to cancel hiring within a week and has driven businesses towards automation and offshoring at precisely the moment AI makes both easier than ever. 

The second force is AI itself. Reed warned it is "burning through entry-level jobs," destroying opportunities for young people at a pace the country is not prepared for. He said Britain is behaving like "rabbits looking into the headlights" of these changes, with no collective strategy for what happens when the jobs disappear — and with them, the income tax, employees' National Insurance and employers' National Insurance that fund public services.

Reed was unequivocal about the political response required. Asked whether there should be a new chancellor, he said: "Yes, absolutely. The incumbent made the decisions that caused the damage." He called the current period one of the toughest in his 30 years as chief executive, ranking alongside the financial crisis of 2008 and the early days of the pandemic — but worse in one respect. "In 2008 and 2020, there was a sense that we need to sort this out. I don't see that at the moment."

The consequences are already visible in the data. Vacancy numbers on reed.co.uk have been in decline for three years. National statistics show vacancies have fallen from over a million to around 700,000 — fewer than before the pandemic. But it is the graduate jobs market that tells the starkest story. Graduate vacancies on Reed's platform have collapsed from 180,000 to 50,000 in four years, and are still falling. The hardest-hit group is 21 to 25-year-olds, many of whom emerged from university with degrees that have, in Reed's words, "no currency out there in the world."

This led Reed to question the value of university itself. He said many graduates feel "mis-sold," that apprentices in their early twenties are now "way ahead" of their university-educated peers, and that the idea of half the country's young people attending university is "very outdated." Britain, he said, has been "ridiculously snobby about trades" — which he believes are the jobs of the future. He proposed a "three-lane superhighway" in which a third of school leavers go to university, a third do apprenticeships, and a third go straight into work with a short-term employer subsidy to help them get started.

Presenter: Sean Farrington
Producer: Olie D'Albertanson
Editor Henry Jones

Image Courtesy of Reed Recruitment

03:05 A real moment of opportunity and good opportunity for a reset.
04:18 The need for a new Chancellor
10:25 The need to change course on taxation around jobs 
12:05 AI is burning through entry-level jobs 
13:09 One of the toughest periods since 2008 (the financial crisis) 
13:47 Back humans, tax robots 
23:03 Is University still worth it? 
35:40 Applicants being ghosted by employers
41:00 Spelling mistakes on CVs now positively sought after
44:01 Big tech companies need to pay more tax: "back humans, tax robots" pt 2

#46 Reed Recruitment CEO: Back Humans, Tax Robots

Mondelēz International, the company behind Cadbury, Oreo, Toblerone and Ritz, has warned that future European investment could bypass the UK if regulatory instability persists.

Chief executive Dirk Van de Put says the UK is the company’s second-biggest market globally and contributes more than £2.3 billion to the economy each year, supporting 12,000 jobs and spending £1.3 billion with more than 1,000 UK suppliers. But he is sharply critical of food and drink being left out of the government’s industrial strategy, despite representing around a quarter of industrial turnover. He says the sector is being taken for granted and warns that repeated policy shifts have already cost Mondelēz £40 million in reformulation work that was then superseded by further changes. Asked whether future investment could go elsewhere in Europe because of government policy, he says: “Yes, of course.”

Van de Put also defends Mondelēz’s decision to continue operating in Russia, despite acknowledging the company pays taxes there that contribute to the war in Ukraine. He argues that withdrawal would have put 3,000 employees out of work, left 10,000 farmers without a buyer, and likely handed confiscated plants to Kremlin-linked interests that could generate even more money for the Russian state. He says: “I’m not pleased about that,” but maintains that staying was “not the most popular decision” but “the right decision”. 

The conflict in Ukraine is not theoretical for Mondelēz. Van de Put reveals that the company’s office building in Ukraine was hit on the morning of the interview, and its factories have been struck and rebuilt twice at a cost of tens of millions. He also said staff were evacuated to neighbouring countries during the worst of the fighting. 

More broadly, he describes the past two years as the toughest of his 30-year career. Wars, inflation, oil prices, packaging costs, fertiliser markets and weak household budgets have created cascading pressure across the business. He says global consumer confidence is among the worst he has ever seen.

The cocoa supply chain has also suffered its worst disruption in at least 40 years. Concentrated production in Ghana and Ivory Coast, endemic crop disease and back-to-back extreme weather events drove an 18 per cent fall in harvests and sent prices soaring. Two stronger crops have eased the immediate pressure, but Van de Put says the structural fragility remains and the sector needs long-term intervention from governments, companies and farming communities.

He also pushes back against the backlash against processed food, saying: “The world cannot live without processed foods.” He argues that processing is essential to food preservation and global food security, though he accepts the industry must continue to make products healthier.

On GLP-1 weight loss drugs, Van de Put says Mondelēz is not yet seeing a material impact, but expects the trend to reshape consumer habits over time. He sees the drugs as broadly positive and says the company is adapting through acquisitions in protein and health snacking, including Grenade, Clif Bar and Perfect Snacks, as well as developing products with more protein, fibre and cleaner ingredients.

Presenter: Leanna Byrne
Producer: Olie D’Albertanson 
Editor: Henry Jones

0:00 Will and Leanna intro the podcast 
03:01 Dirk Van de Put interview begins / His background as a vet
08:53 Forces shaping the business: wars, tariffs, climate, cocoa, regulation, GLP-1 drugs
13:25 Europe as a difficult market / Consumer confidence at historic lows16:28 Continuing operations in Russia / Moral decisions & taxes funding the war
21:51 Cocoa supply chain crisis, El Niño & prices
24:27 Consumer pricing, shrinkflation & recipe integrity
29:30 UK industrial strategy: food industry left out
33:00 Future investment in UK & HFSS regulation
36:07 Education vs. regulation on obesity & weight loss drugs
41:48 Acquisitions (Grenade, Clif Bar) & protein/fibre trends
43:50 Chocolate tasters & "tasting Neanderthal" confession

#45 Mondelēz CEO: We're Questioning Our Future UK Investment

The next great wave of demand for artificial intelligence chips could come not from chatbots, but from humanoid robots caring for ageing populations. That is the prediction of Wendell Huang, chief financial officer of TSMC, the Taiwanese company that manufactures the world’s most advanced semiconductors. As countries grapple with rapidly ageing societies, Huang sees robot carers and autonomous vehicles as major commercial frontiers beyond the current boom in AI data centres.

TSMC is already struggling to keep pace with demand. Huang says the company is expanding as fast as it can across Taiwan, the United States, Japan and Germany, but new fabrication plants take two to three years to build and a further year or two to reach full production. Despite concerns about overinvestment, he rejects the idea that AI is a bubble, describing it as a “multi-year structural megatrend” backed by the financial strength of the world’s biggest cloud and technology companies.

The most advanced chips will continue to be ramped up in Taiwan, Huang says, because research and manufacturing teams need to work in close proximity. Recreating Taiwan’s semiconductor ecosystem in the US will take at least five to ten years, even though TSMC’s Arizona lab has now matched the yield of its mother lab in Taiwan.

Huang is also pointed about Elon Musk’s stated ambition to manufacture chips. “There’s no shortcut in semiconductor manufacturing,” he says, arguing that government subsidies alone cannot guarantee success in the foundry business. TSMC’s advantage, he suggests, rests on technology, execution and nearly four decades of customer trust.

Geopolitics remain unavoidable. TSMC sits at the centre of US-China tensions over technology and Taiwan, but Huang declines to be drawn on the politics, insisting the company builds capacity according to customer demand rather than government instruction. On export controls and reports of chips reaching China through third parties, he says TSMC has robust compliance systems, while acknowledging the limits of tracing products once they leave its facilities.

Presenter: Suranjana Tewari
Producer: Jaltson Akkanath Chummar& Olie D'Albertanson

Picture Courtesy of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, LTD

3:10 The AI chip landscape
5:21 Is the AI boom a bubble?
7:28 Humanoid robots and the future of AI demand
8:14 Will AI replace jobs?
10:25 Will cutting-edge chips stay in Taiwan?
13:27 Huawei and Chinese chip ambitions
19:08 TSMC on receiving US government subsidies
19:27 Elon Musk's chip-making ambitions
20:45 Middle East, supply chains and stockpiling
21:35 Talent challenges and cultural adjustment in Arizona

#44 TSMC: Humanoid Robots Will Look After the Elderly

Debenhams was once one of the biggest names on the British high street. Founded in 1778, it collapsed into administration before being rescued in 2024 and rebuilt as a digital-only marketplace. Now, under chief executive Dan Finley, Debenhams Group is back to growth after reporting a £350 million loss in the year to February 2025. Finley argues the business is now one of the biggest turnarounds in recent UK retail history, with the Debenhams brand generating £654 million in annual revenue and a marketplace model built around 25,000 brands across fashion, home and beauty.

But his biggest fight is not just with the legacy of the high street. It is with China's fast fashion giants. Shein and Temu have disrupted the UK market, and Finley says the brands in his group — Boohoo and PrettyLittleThing among them, once the original online fashion disruptors — have taken a hit. He admits they have had a tough time but says the fightback is under way, with the group dusting itself off and competing again. The challenge is compounded by the de minimis tax exemption, which allows low-value parcels to enter the UK without import duties. Finley says this gives Chinese platforms a structural cost advantage over British retailers, which pay UK taxes, employ British workers and comply with domestic safety regulation. The government has committed to closing the loophole by 2029, but Finley wants action within 12 months, pointing to the United States, which moved in six months, and the EU, which begins rolling out changes from July.

There is also pressure closer to home. Frasers Group, controlled by Mike Ashley, owns close to 30 per cent of Debenhams Group and recently blocked the formal company name change from Boohoo to Debenhams Group. Finley says the business already operates as Debenhams Group in practice, trades under the stock market ticker "DEBS", and remains focused on delivering value for all shareholders. His own incentive plan is tied to a dramatic target: taking the share price from around 23p to £3, an 18-fold increase sustained over two years, creating more than £4 billion in shareholder value. Finley calls it a big challenge, but says he is determined to get there.

The next stage of the turnaround is built around AI and agentic commerce. Debenhams has struck a partnership with Meta and is preparing for a future where consumers shop through platforms such as ChatGPT and Perplexity. Internally, AI is being used to scale marketing content from a single photo shoot into millions of personalised assets, while a partnership with Multiverse will deliver more than 100 AI apprenticeships for staff. Finley describes AI as a "snakes and ladders moment" for both companies and individuals.

What is not coming back is the department store. Finley rules out a return to physical retail and says Debenhams' future is entirely digital. His ambition is for the brand to become "to retail what Spotify is to music": a curated marketplace where shoppers can discover thousands of brands in one place.

Presenter: Will Bain
Producer: Olie D'Albertanson
Editor: Henry Jones

00:00 Will and Sean intro pod
02:00 Dan Finley on the Debenhams turnaround
13:57 Frasers/Mike Ashley standoff
17:19 18x share price target
18:26 De minimis loophole benefitting Shein/Temu.
21:15 Fast fashion fight-back & influencer growth
27:50 AI and agentic commerce push
33:13 No return to physical stores

#43 Debenhams Group CEO: Our Fightback Against China's Fast Fashion

Jackie Jantos, CEO of Hinge, says the cost of living is reshaping dating habits, with daytime meet-ups becoming more common and traditional drinks dates becoming less popular as younger people look for cheaper ways to meet in person.

She argues that AI should help users express themselves rather than speak on their behalf, rejecting suggestions that AI is making online dating less authentic. Hinge has introduced a range of AI-powered tools, including features that help users improve profiles, start conversations and reconsider potentially offensive messages before sending them. Jantos defends these interventions, saying they encourage reflection rather than creating a filtered version of users online.

Jantos says it "breaks her heart" that some young people are turning to AI chatbots for emotional support instead of confiding in friends, arguing that difficult conversations and human connection remain essential parts of building relationships. She points to research showing high levels of loneliness among Gen Z and says younger generations are spending significantly less time together in person than previous cohorts.

Jantos also discusses the wider dating-app industry, arguing that Hinge is continuing to grow despite broader challenges across the sector. She attributes that growth to the company's focus on helping users to meet in person and ultimately leave the app altogether.

Presenter: Sean Farrington
Producer: Jeevan Nerwan
Editor: Olivia Baron

03:18 Gen Z loneliness and isolation
07:19 Hinge’s growth compared to other dating apps
09:18 Growth in the UK and the gender balance
15:20 AI features on the app and authenticity
32:37 The younger generation's relationship with AI
36:12 Age restrictions on social media usage
39:20 Tinder and other Match Group apps
42:25 Is “Designed to be deleted” at odds with the business model?
46:20 The cost of living crisis is leading to growth in daytime dating as opposed to traditional bar dates
54:46 Her career in tech, including roles at Spotify

#42 Hinge CEO: The Cost of Living Crunch Is Changing How We Date

David Thomas, the outgoing chief executive of Barratt Redrow, says bricklaying robots are already being deployed on commercial building sites and predicts a revolution in how homes are built over the next decade.

Factory-built timber frames, off-site manufacturing and “brick-simulation” cladding are beginning to reshape the construction industry, reducing the amount of labour required on site and changing how developments are assembled. Thomas believes the biggest transformation will come beyond ten years, as automation and factory production become increasingly embedded across housebuilding.

The industry has struggled with recruitment for more than two decades, with far fewer young people entering trades such as bricklaying, plumbing and electrical work than in previous generations. Drone technology and AI are also becoming more common across large developments, helping with surveying, infrastructure monitoring and site security — though Thomas sees technology augmenting workers rather than replacing them entirely.

He also explores the mounting pressures facing Britain’s housing market, warning that conditions for first-time buyers are now as difficult as they have been since the Great Financial Crisis, but without the government support schemes that existed in 2009. Student debt, higher borrowing costs and rising interest rate expectations following the recent Middle East conflict are all reducing affordability and pushing the average age of home ownership higher.

At the same time, the cost of building homes has surged. Thomas says construction costs have risen by around £75,000 per typical property in just five years, driven by inflation, supply chain disruption and tightening environmental regulation. The shift away from gas boilers towards air source heat pumps is adding thousands more to the cost of new homes, whilst repeated periods of 40-degree heat are forcing the industry to rethink how houses are designed for a warmer future.

Presenter: Sean Farrington
Producer: Olie D'Albertanson
Editor: Henry Jones

03:40 Climate change and overheating homes
11:12 Rising build costs
18:32 Housing demand, affordability and regional challenges
21:18 First-time buyers: toughest market since the financial crisis
26:20 Supply and demand: a whole generation at risk
28:18 Interest rates, the war in Iran and market uncertainty
38:21 Skills shortages and the future of construction
40:20 Bricklaying robots, factory production and modern methods
42:57 AI, drones and technology on building sites

#41 Barratt Redrow CEO: Bricklaying Robots & Echoes of 2008

Lord Wolfson, Chief Executive of Next and a Conservative peer, warns Britain is facing a crisis in entry-level employment. Applicants for every shop vacancy at Next have almost doubled from 10 to 19 in just two years — a trend he describes as “indicative of just how big the crisis is in youth unemployment.” Across retail and the wider economy, he says there has been “a dramatic fall in entry-level employment opportunities” as rising National Insurance and National Living Wage costs push up the cost of hiring younger and less experienced workers. UK youth unemployment has now reached 15%.

The crisis, he argues, will deepen under the Employment Rights Bill. Restrictions on flexible part-time working mean retailers risk being locked into permanent contracts when offering extra hours at Christmas or during university holidays. The result, Lord Wolfson says, will be fewer opportunities for students and reduced service for customers — consequences, he says, the government never intended. The legislation was “cobbled together very quickly”, he argues, reflecting a broader problem in British politics: governments arriving in office with slogans rather than detailed plans. “Becoming prime minister is not an achievement. Being a great prime minister, that’s an achievement.”

Lord Wolfson also makes the case that Britain’s planning system is the single biggest drag on economic growth. He says an acre of agricultural land worth around £15,000 rises to £1.5 million once planning permission is granted — wealth he argues is being extracted from the economy rather than invested in better homes and infrastructure. His solution is to replace the planning system with principle-based building regulation, allowing development provided it does not damage neighbouring property values or overload local infrastructure.

He also argues for pay-per-mile road pricing, warns against government industrial strategy becoming “the referee becoming the player”, and says reopening the Brexit debate would distract from the structural reforms — planning, energy and transport — that could do far more to drive economic growth.

Presenter: Simon Jack
Producer: Ollie Smith & Olie D'Albertanson

02:00 Entry-level jobs crisis and youth unemployment
05:30 Employment Rights Bill and seasonal work
07:00 Shareholders vs workers benefitting from profits
09:56 Brexit and closer ties with Europe
11:02 Planning reform and the cost of development land
13:15 Road pricing and transport policy
15:13 Industrial strategy and government intervention
20:44 AI and the future of jobs
25:37 Winning office vs winning government

#40 Next CEO: The Crisis Facing Entry-Level Employment

Amazon's UK boss has called for work experience to be made mandatory for everyone aged sixteen and over, describing it as "the most transformative thing" he has seen for young people entering the workforce. John Boumphrey argues that the education system is not producing work-ready school leavers and that the blame should fall on the system rather than on young people themselves.

The cost of living crisis and its effect on retail pricing is a constant theme. Just this week the govenment called on supermarkets to cap the price of some goods to help consumers. Boumphrey - who is the UK Country Manager - sets out how Amazon aims to match the lowest price among national competitors and resists the suggestion that government intervention could do a better job than competitive markets. He acknowledges the impact of National Insurance increases and global disruption, including the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, on business costs, while insisting these have not yet fed through to customer prices.

Amazon's record as a supplier is challenged directly. The Groceries Code Adjudicator ranks Amazon worst among retailers for supplier complaints, and Boumphrey, UK country manager at Amazon, accepts the company has "a lot more to do," particularly around delayed payments in its grocery division. He points to recent changes including named contacts for every grocery supplier.

A pilot drone delivery service in Darlington, the first outside the United States, is delivering products within two hours. Boumphrey suggests the service will initially suit rural and remote areas rather than city centres, and expects the timescale to shorten towards thirty-minute delivery.

The conversation addresses the near-miss union recognition vote at Amazon's Coventry warehouse, where the result fell just short of the threshold. Boumphrey says he personally values the existence of unions but prefers direct engagement with employees, adding that if workers choose union recognition, the company will comply.

Amazon's UK tax contribution of more than five point eight billion pounds is set out, though Boumphrey resists calls to publish a standalone corporation tax figure, citing the volatility of that number during periods of heavy investment. He also addresses illegal streaming on Fire Stick devices, confirming that sideloading has been restricted on newer products and that Amazon is working with a global anti-piracy coalition.

And could Ai soon be ordering your shopping for you? Amazon is piloting a service in the United States called Buy For Me, where an AI agent can purchase products on a customer's behalf — buying items automatically when they hit a specified price, without the customer needing to place the order themselves. Boumphrey confirms there are no immediate plans to bring it to the UK but describes it as part of a broader shift in how retail is evolving. Boumphrey acknowledges the responsibility that comes with holding a customer's payment details and acting on their behalf, but stresses that the customer remains in control at every stage.

Presenter: Sean Farrington
Producer: Olie D'Albertanson
Editor: Henry Jones

03:44 Cost of living & pricing
05:00 Government & price intervention
15:15 Supplier complaints & Groceries Code
21:48 AI, Alexa Plus & agentic shopping
25:53 Drone delivery in Darlington
29:40 Robots, automation & the jobs market
31:28 Mandatory work experience & skills crisis
37:08 Union recognition & Coventry vote
42:46 Tax transparency
45:48 Fire Stick piracy

#39 Amazon UK Boss: Make Work Experience Mandatory for Over-16s

Eben Upton, founder and chief executive of Raspberry Pi, joins the Big Boss Interview to discuss artificial intelligence, British manufacturing, semiconductors and why he believes there is a growing tendency to overestimate what AI tools can currently do. AI tools are “genuinely incredible”, Upton says, and he uses them regularly himself. But he warns against assuming they remove the need for human judgment, engineering skill or technical understanding. 

His concern is that the current enthusiasm around AI risks creating the impression that deep technical understanding is becoming less important, when in reality the opposite may be true. Raspberry Pi itself was originally created to reverse collapsing computer science applications at Cambridge University by giving children affordable programmable computers that could encourage them to “accidentally slide into engineering”.

 Upton’s message to young people is simple: “do more maths”. Despite advances in AI, he argues the world will need more engineers, not fewer, and describes engineering as “the most incredible job” where “they pay you money to mess about”. He also reflects on the persistence required to build successful companies, revealing that during Raspberry Pi’s early years he repeatedly drifted towards other ideas before family members — particularly his wife and co-founder — pushed him back towards the business that would ultimately become one of Britain’s biggest technology success stories. 

The interview also explores the future of British manufacturing and industrial policy. Upton argues that high energy prices are now the single biggest threat to manufacturing in the UK. Raspberry Pi designs its computers in Cambridge, builds them in Bridgend, South Wales, and carries out plastics moulding in Dudley — operations that rely heavily on automated production and energy-intensive manufacturing.

Britain, he warns, risks “quietly electing to move manufacturing and heavy industry out of your country” without properly accounting for the embedded carbon emissions in imported goods. The deeper issue, in his view, is political. Upton describes Britain as suffering from a “distributed failure of will” — an inability to sustain long-term decisions across successive governments. He points to decades of indecision over Heathrow’s third runway and repeated delays to nuclear power projects as examples of a country that struggles to commit to major infrastructure over time, despite possessing world-class engineering and industrial capability. 

The conversation also examines Raspberry Pi’s decision to list on the London Stock Exchange rather than in New York. The company floated in June 2024 at a valuation of £542 million and has since grown to more than £1.3 billion. Upton reveals he initially expected to favour a US listing, but meetings with American investors changed his mind. They argued the perceived valuation premium in New York was largely a “cohort effect” and warned that a business of Raspberry Pi’s size risked disappearing into the “noise floor” of the US market. 

Geopolitics also looms large over the semiconductor industry. Raspberry Pi’s chips are manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan, and Upton acknowledges the strategic risk posed by tensions around the island. However, he argues the United States cannot realistically allow access to Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing to disappear, because advanced chipmaking now underpins not only the global economy but the AI revolution itself.

 Presenter: Fliss Hannah 
Producer: Olie D'Albertanson 
Editor: Henry Jones 

02:10 What is Raspberry Pi? 
03:25 The decline in computer science students 
04:56 AI and overestimating these tools 
06:26 Startup intensity and pacing yourself 
08:08 Listing on the London Stock Exchange 
09:21 Luck and serendipity in business 
10:23 UK optimism and industrial strength 
12:32 Energy costs and manufacturing 
15:03 UK infrastructure and political will 
18:59 The IPO journey and the multiples gap myth 
26:14 Industrial & embedded growth 
30:00 Taiwan, TSMC, and geopolitical risk 
32:38 Agentic AI and the reality vs the hype 
36:57 Advice for young people and the case for maths

Presenter: Felicity Hannah
Producer: Olie D'Albertanson
Editor: Henry Jones

#42 Hinge CEO: The Cost of Living Crunch Is Changing How We Date

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