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Dan Turchin

🏆 Ranked #3, Best 30 HR Tech Podcasts in the US — Million Podcasts (2026). Host Dan Turchin, PeopleReign CEO, explores how AI is changing the workplace. He interviews thought leaders and technologists from industry and academia who share their experiences and insights about artificial intelligence and what it means to be human in the era of AI-driven automation. Learn more about PeopleReign, the system of intelligence for IT and HR employee service: http://www.peoplereign.io.

AI and the Future of Work

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Andrew Palmer is a long-time editor and columnist at The Economist, where he writes the widely read Bartleby column on work and life. He also hosts Boss Class, one of The Economist's most popular podcasts, whose most recent season explored generative AI in the workplace, a topic Andrew approached not just as a journalist, but as a self-described unsophisticated user determined to get smarter by doing.

In this episode, Andrew draws on his reporting and interviews with leaders across industries to offer an outside-in view of where AI adoption actually stands, and why the gap between the hype and the reality is not a sign of failure, but of how complex change really is.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why AI adoption faces three distinct barriers (behavioral, technical, and organizational) and why solving one without the others leaves productivity gains stranded.
 • Why structural reskilling frameworks (like Denmark's flexicurity model and Singapore's voucher-based lifelong learning system) offer a more credible response to AI disruption than waiting for policy to catch up.
 • Why Johnson & Johnson's "let a thousand flowers bloom" approach to AI experimentation produced a Pareto effect (15% of projects generating 85% of value) and what they changed as a result.
 • How the AI productivity boom is real at the individual level but not yet showing up in aggregate data, and why Andrew believes that gap is a question of time, not technology.
 • Why enlightened corporate leadership requires transparency about potential job disruption and a commitment to adjacent career planning rather than performative optimism.
 • What work in 2036 might look like, and why Andrew's most unsettling prediction has nothing to do with jobs, and everything to do with privacy.

Explore this conversation:

00:00 Introduction to AI and the Future of Work episode 391

01:14 AI fun fact: AI legislative speed versus technological advancement

03:51 Meet Andrew Palmer The Economist Bartleby Column Boss Class

06:14 Digital Doppelganger and AI Personality Traits

07:57 AI Adoption Barriers Behavioral Technical and Organizational

11:01 AI Impact at Work Startups vs Large Organizations

14:15 Leadership Humility and AI Uncertainty in the Workplace

17:41 AI Experimentation at Scale Lessons from Johnson and Johnson

24:26 AI vs SaaS Productivity Data and the Speed of Adoption

27:35 Balancing AI Automation with Human Meaning at Work

31:26 AI Policy Reskilling and Lifelong Learning for the Future

36:03 Work in 2036 AI Monitoring Privacy and Constant Surveillance

38:47 Who Really Controls AI and What That Means for Workers

44:08 Connect with Andrew Palmer and Boss Class The Economist

Resources:

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Andrew on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How Arvind Jain Is Shaping the Future of Enterprise Search • Another episode mentioned in the interview: 
How we can take back control from Big Tech • with Tom Wheeler, former FCC Chairman, CEO, VC, and author of Techlash.

391: Andrew Palmer from The Economist on Why AI Productivity Isn’t Showing Up Yet

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Arnnon Geshuri is Chief People Officer at Snowflake, where he leads culture development, talent strategy, and organizational design at one of the world’s leading data cloud companies. His career spans decades of scaling high-growth technology organizations, including leadership roles at Google, Livongo Health, and Tesla, where he oversaw its growth from a 400-person startup to a 35,000-person transportation juggernaut.

Throughout his career, he has consistently chosen companies that demand a people function as innovative, as creative, and as forward-thinking as the business itself. And across every role, he has focused on one core idea: the people function must evolve as fast as the business itself, grounded in data, experimentation, and trust.

In this episode, Arnnon draws on that experience to challenge how leaders think about AI in the workplace, arguing that the real opportunity is not automation alone, but redefining how humans contribute, decide, and grow inside modern organizations.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why the people function must speak the language of data and analytics to influence engineering-led organizations and earn credibility in high-growth, technical environments
 • The shift from transactional HR to a strategic role focused on connection, education, and rebuilding trust after workforce disruption and disconnection during COVID
 • How Snowflake frames AI adoption by automating repetitive work, augmenting creative tasks, and preserving human judgment in decisions that require empathy and context
 • Why employees adopt AI faster when leaders encourage curiosity, remove fear of experimentation, and make tools accessible through simple interfaces like natural language
 • The risks of over-automating decisions like hiring and performance reviews, and why removing human accountability breaks trust inside organizations
 • How building a culture of experimentation, measurement, and iteration allows people leaders to scale organizations without relying on intuition alone

Explore the Conversation

00:00 Intro & Fun Fact: How AI manipulation threatens autonomy

05:06 Meet Arnnon Geshuri: CPO at Snowflake, from Google, Tesla, and Livongo Health

10:24 The Evolution of HR: From Transactions to Amplifying Humanity

13:37 Snowflake's AI Framework: Automate, Augment, and Preserve Human Judgment

21:44 Driving AI Adoption: AI for Everybody and a Culture of Experimentation

26:26 Data Privacy and Trust: Building Guardrails for Enterprise AI

28:36 AI in Hiring: Mitigating Bias to Rescue Human Connection

32:28 Setting AI Boundaries: Why Algorithms Should Never Conduct Performance Reviews

34:16 Scaling Culture in Hyper-Growth: The Power of People Analytics

41:33 The AI Ride-Along Prediction and What Comes Next

43:15 Where to Connect with Arnnon Geshuri and Snowflake

Resources

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Arnnon on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How Rodrigo Liang, Raised Over $1B to Build the First Generative AI Unicorn

390: Automate the Work, Amplify the Humanity, with Snowflake's CPO Arnnon Geshuri

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In this special episode of AI and the Future of Work, we are bringing you an exclusive conversation recorded live on the show floor at the HumanX 2026 event. This full interview kicks off a special three-part series, with the upcoming two episodes releasing in a compilation format. To start things off, we are sharing our uncut conversation with the man who made this entire gathering possible.

Stefan Weitz is the Co-founder and CEO of HumanX, an organization and premier event dedicated to cutting through the AI hype to find practical, world-changing applications. He joined Microsoft in 1996, working alongside leaders like Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer on iconic product launches and foundational tech like Bing and Windows.

In this live episode, Stefan draws on his extensive product development background to explain why our survival in the AI era depends on treating technology as an evolving tool and why the most powerful thing a leader can say today is "I do not know".

In this conversation, we discuss: 

 • Why relying on focus groups and lean product development is the wrong approach for building breakthrough AI hardware and software.
 • The reason established tech giants risk losing the AI race if they rely solely on distribution over building superior products.
 • How AI differs fundamentally from all previous human tools and why its ability to learn creates unprecedented exponential growth.
 • Why the speed of current technological adaptation threatens to outpace our natural ability to transition roles and find new purpose.
 • The danger of anthropomorphizing artificial intelligence and why framing it as human creates unnecessary fear and resistance.
 • How saying "I do not know" has become the most powerful leadership tool in a non-deterministic technology landscape.

Resources:

Connect with Stefan on LinkedIn

Special Episode: Why Real AI Progress Starts With Saying "I Don’t Know", with Stefan Weitz, CEO of HumanX - Live from HumanX 2026

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Robb Wilson is the CEO and co-founder of OneReach.ai, an agent-building platform focused on complex enterprise use cases across healthcare, government, and telecommunications. A serial entrepreneur and former creative executive at Time Warner, Robb has spent decades working at the intersection of design and technology. He is also the co-owner of UX Magazine, a global community of more than 640,000 members, and the author of two bestselling books, including Age of Invisible Machines.

His career spans designing high-stakes systems like the Boeing 787 cockpit to building conversational AI platforms that rethink how humans interact with technology. Along the way, he earned an Academy Award nomination for Technical Achievement, reflecting his ability to bridge creativity and engineering at scale.

In this episode, Robb draws on that rare combination of design, product, and systems thinking to challenge how companies are adopting AI today, and why most are optimizing the wrong layer of the problem.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why companies are using AI to accelerate outdated software instead of rethinking what software should be, and how this creates the illusion of progress without meaningful change
 • The fundamental mismatch between human communication and traditional interfaces, and why conversational interaction exposes how poorly most software has been designed for real users
 • What “getting AI” actually means inside organizations, and why productivity gains often hide the fact that teams are still building systems they plan to replace
 • The concept of “invisible machines” and why the future of AI is not better interfaces, but removing interfaces entirely to prioritize human interaction over system interaction
 • Why evaluating AI systems based on what they do misses the point, and how understanding how they learn becomes the more critical question for decision-makers
 • The tension between building AI that drives engagement versus AI that strengthens human connection, and how market incentives continue to reward the wrong outcomes

Explore the conversation:

00:00 Intro and Fun Fact 

04:27 Robb Wilson's Journey at the Intersection of Design and Technology

06:26 The UX Collision: Why Using AI to Build Old Software Faster is a Mistake

10:47 Defining Human-First Design and the Concept of Invisible Machines

13:26 Lessons from the Boeing 787: Using Context to Remove Complex Interfaces

16:08 The Adoption Problem: Why We Must Evaluate How AI Software Learns

20:40 The OpenAI Dilemma: Choosing Between Dopamine-Driven AI and Healthy Innovation

25:22 The End of Compiled Software: Why True AI Transformation Requires Total Transparency

29:48 Future Interfaces: Valuing Human Connection Over Brain Chips and Productivity

35:09 Will Capitalism Reward Ethical AI? The Power of Consumer Choice

41:54 Where to Connect with Robb Wilson and OneReach.ai

Resources

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Robb on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How Steve Truitt Is Working to Save Humanity and Prevent AI From Ruining Us

389: Building AI for Human Connection, Not Dopamine Hits, with Robb Wilson, CEO of OneReach.ai

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Matt Fitzpatrick is the CEO of Invisible Technologies, an AI platform used to improve models for more than 80% of the world’s leading AI companies, including Microsoft, AWS, and Cohere. The company has raised $100 million and scaled to $134 million in revenue, making it one of the fastest-growing AI companies globally.

Before joining Invisible, Matt was the Global Head of QuantumBlack Labs at McKinsey, where he led large-scale AI and data engineering efforts and helped enterprises move from experimentation to production.

In this episode, Matt draws on years spent inside enterprise AI deployments to challenge the gap between model progress and real-world adoption, and to explain why most organizations still struggle to turn AI into measurable business outcomes.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why enterprise AI adoption lags far behind model performance improvements, and why most organizations still struggle to turn technical progress into real business impact
 • The hidden role of messy, fragmented legacy data, and why decades of accumulated systems make it nearly impossible to deploy reliable AI at scale
 • Why defining “good” output in generative AI is far harder than expected, and how unclear standards stall deployment across high-stakes enterprise workflows
 • The case for redesigning workflows from scratch, and why layering AI on top of existing processes fails to create meaningful efficiency gains
 • Why most AI initiatives fail due to lack of business ownership, and how separating technology teams from operators prevents projects from reaching production
 • How fear-driven narratives about job loss are slowing adoption, and why AI is more likely to shift work toward higher-value tasks than eliminate roles entirely

 

Explore this conversation: 

00:00 Intro and Fun Fact 

03:57 Matt Fitzpatrick's Path From McKinsey to Invisible Technologies 

09:56 Scaling Enterprise AI with Modular Platforms and Clean Data 

12:44 The Crucial Role of Expert Human Feedback in Model Training 

17:56 Why 95% of Enterprise AI Projects Never Reach Production

21:38 The Missing Link: Why True AI Transformation Requires Business Ownership 

26:54 Overcoming AI Fear and the Reality of Jevons Paradox 

32:24 Responsible AI: Governing Outcomes Over Technology 

39:05 The Future of Work: Moving From Administration to Innovation 

44:12 Where to Connect with Matt Fitzpatrick and Invisible Technologies

Resources:

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Matthew on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How Allison Baum Gates Reveals the Secrets to a Successful VC Career

388: From AI Hype to Real Deployment: What Enterprise Leaders Keep Getting Wrong, with Matt Fitzpatrick, CEO of Invisible Technologies

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Your employees are already ahead of you on AI. The data is in and the question is no longer whether this is happening, but what leaders choose to do about it.

That is one of the key findings from Microsoft's 2026 Work Trend Index, and it is the starting point for this week's special episode. PeopleReign CEO Dan Turchin sits down with Matt Firestone, General Manager at Microsoft leading product marketing for Microsoft 365 Copilot and Agents, to unpack what trillions of anonymized signals across the Microsoft 365 ecosystem reveal about how AI is actually changing work right now.

What pairing telemetry with survey responses and in-house research reveals about the gap between where employees actually are and where their organizations think they are is striking. And the numbers on how organizations reward, or fail to reward, the people already doing this work will make most leaders uncomfortable. The bottleneck, it turns out, isn't where most people expect it.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why the job of a leader has shifted from designing transformation strategy to changing systems and culture
 • How the report reframes agentic AI collaboration, not as a threat to human agency, but as an expansion of it
 • What "frontier firms" and "frontier professionals" actually means, and why it's a mental model and rallying cry, not a marketing term
 • How building in the open, leaders experimenting visibly and removing the stigma of getting things wrong, is one of the most quantifiably impactful things a manager can do
 • Why agent adoption on the Microsoft 365 ecosystem is growing at a rate that will surprise even the optimists

Explore this conversation:

00:00 Intro

01:14 Inside Microsoft’s 2026 Work Trend Index

02:22 Telemetry, Not Just Surveys: What the Data Reveal

03:09 Employees Are Ahead of Their Managers on Agentic AI

04:37 The Transformation Paradox and Broken Reward Systems

06:15 More Agentic AI, More Human Agency: The 49% Finding

09:28 How Leaders Should Respond: Build in the Open

11:26 Safety, Trust, and Responsible AI at Microsoft Scale

13:36 Building a Manager Equity Dashboard in 25 Minutes with Copilot

17:31 What Frontier Firms and Frontier Professionals Actually Do

20:04 AI, Toil, and the Fear of Becoming Obsolete

22:52 The 1 Billion Agents Prediction and What Comes Next

Resources

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Matt on LinkedInMicrosoft's 2026 Work Trend Index

Special Episode: Inside the 2026 Work Trend Index with Matt Firestone, General Manager for Microsoft 365 Copilot and Agents

Send us Fan Mail

Emmanuel Daniel is an author, advisor, and global thought leader on geopolitics, the future of finance, and their intersection with business and society. 

As the founder of the research and consulting house TAB Global and a recognized top 10 global influencer in the Fintech Power50, Emmanuel has spent decades looking under the hood of the global economy to understand how nations and institutions truly interact. 

In this episode, Emmanuel draws on 25 years of building relationships with central bankers, policymakers, and fintech leaders across 157 countries to make the case that the disruption most financial institutions are bracing for is not the one that is actually coming, and that the leaders asking the wrong questions today will have no runway left when the real inflection point hits.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why financial markets distracted everyone from the real AI disruption, and what happens to large organizations when agentic AI finally reaches the Internet of Things.
 • Why the end user no longer interacts with your bank's app directly, and what that means for every institution investing in UX.
 • Why Emmanuel argues that debt is the economy, and why the conversation about U.S. debt-to-GDP is asking the wrong question entirely.
 • Why state-promoted digital currencies are structurally designed to fail, and what China's eCNY after 8 years in pilot reveals about the limits of government-driven innovation.
 • Why stablecoins have enabled a parallel global economy that traditional banking missed, and what that signals for the institutions still holding the rails.
 • Why originality of thought is the one human capability AI cannot replace, and why Emmanuel says AI is of no use to you if you cannot form the right questions yourself.

Resources:

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Emmanuel on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How AI Voice Assistants Will Make Meetings More Productive • Other episodes mentioned:
344: Can Decentralized AI Fix Banking? Crypto, Brain OS, and the Future of Finance with Paolo Ardoino, Tether CEO358: Inside Mastercard’s AI Adoption Journey: CTO George Maddaloni on Building Trust, Detecting Fraud, and the Future of Payments

387: Agentic AI, Stablecoins and the Future of Money. Most Institutions Are Solving the Wrong Problem, with Emmanuel Daniel, Founder of TAB Global

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Tom Scott is the CEO of Wrike, the work management platform trusted by over 20,000 customers including Walmart Canada and Sony Pictures Television, across more than 140 countries and nearly 2 million end users.

Tom's path to the CEO seat is anything but conventional. He spent over 20 years leading finance and operations across some of the most hardware-intensive sectors in tech, from building cell towers to running finance at Zebra Technologies and autonomous robotics company Fetch Robotics, before joining Wrike as CFO and transitioning to CEO in July 2023.

In this episode, Tom draws on that rare vantage point (having led through multiple waves of technological disruption) to make a case that the leaders and companies that treat organizational intelligence as a combination of human judgment and AI capability, rather than a replacement of one by the other, are the ones building something that lasts.

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why transformation remains stubbornly hard in the AI era, and what leaders consistently underestimate about the real blockers to change
 • Why the biggest career risk today is not AI itself, but the decision to stop moving up the value stack of your current role
 • The two words Tom's customers and team use most to describe the current moment: pace and noise, and what that means for leaders trying to drive transformation.
 • How Tom coaches his leadership team to hire for intensity and ownership over domain expertise, and why that philosophy matters more now than ever
 • Why a deterministic career plan is no longer a viable strategy, and what curiosity and experience-chasing actually look like as professional operating principles
 • What Tom believes will be table stakes in the workplace well before 2031, and why the building blocks are already visible today

Explore this conversation:

 • 00:00 Intro and Fun Fact
 • 04:08 Scaling Work Management with Tom Scott, CEO of Wrike 
 • 04:47 From Cell Towers to the CEO Seat at Wrike 
 • 05:51 How Wrike Helps Teams Connect and Accelerate Work 
 • 10:21 The Hardest Part of Transitioning to the CEO Role 
 • 14:13 Wrike's Origins: Building Scalability for Complex Workflows 
 • 17:04 Managing Pace and Noise During AI Transformations 
 • 21:20 Why True Organizational Intelligence Requires Human Judgment 
 • 25:54 Embracing Technology to Move Up the Value Stack 
 • 28:11 Why Curiosity Outweighs a Deterministic Career Plan 
 • 31:25 Hiring Empowered Teams: Selecting for Ownership and Intensity 
 • 34:31 The Future of Work: When Agentic AI Becomes Table Stakes 
 • 36:32 Where to Connect with Tom Scott and Wrike

 

Resources:

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Thomas on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How Decentralized Intelligence and Data Precision Are Reshaping the Future of AI

386: Pace, Noise, and What's Really Blocking AI Transformation at Work, with Tom Scott, CEO of Wrike

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In this special April compilation episode of AI and the Future of Work, we’re bringing back six great former guests who published popular books about how AI is redefining humans at work. 

The future of work isn't about competing with algorithms. It’s about how we use technology to increase our capacity for trust, express our vulnerability, and discover meaning.

This episode brings together insights from authors who explore how AI is reshaping work and what it means for individuals and organizations. 

What You’ll Learn

 • Why delegating routine tasks to AI frees us to explore our human superpowers like empathy, rational thinking, and compassion.
 • How the future of knowledge work lies in navigating ambiguity and expressing entirely new ideas.
 • Why leaders must move beyond monitoring and productivity theater to build cultures of trust and give teams the space to experiment.
 • How the traditional, contract-based employment model is failing the next generation and what replaces it.
 • Why the era of the “superhuman” leader is over, and how showing your human side earns loyalty in times of disruption.
 • How the AI revolution is sparking a massive work quake, and why only you can write your own story and decide what gives you meaning.

Featured Guests

 • Bernard Marr, Futurist and Bestselling Author of 
Generative AI in Practice • - Listen to the full conversation here: [
https://www.buzzsprout.com/520474/episodes/15441666 • ] 
 • Atif Rafiq, Former Fortune 500 Executive and Author of 
Decision Sprint • - Listen to the full conversation here: 
https://www.buzzsprout.com/520474/episodes/14507445 • ] 
 • Brian Elliott, Executive Advisor and bestselling author of "How the Future Works". - Listen to the full conversation here: [
https://www.buzzsprout.com/520474/episodes/17282891 • ] 
 • Josh Drean, Co-founder of the Work3 Institute and Co-author of 
Employment is Dead • - Listen to the full conversation here: [
https://www.buzzsprout.com/520474/episodes/16473644 • ] 
 • Linda Rottenberg, CEO and Co-founder of Endeavor, and Author of 
Crazy is a Compliment • - Listen to the full conversation here: [
https://www.buzzsprout.com/520474/episodes/8356582 • ] 
 • Bruce Feiler, Bestselling Author of 
The Search: Finding Meaningful Work in a Post-Career World • - Listen to the full conversation here: [
https://www.buzzsprout.com/520474/episodes/14158168 • ] 

💬 Inspired by something you heard in this episode? Share your favorite insight about redefining work, building trust, or finding meaning in the AI era, and tag us on social. 

We’d love to hear what resonated with you. And don’t forget to subscribe to AI and the Future of Work for more conversations with the authors and leaders shaping what comes next.

Authors on Redefining the Human at Work: The Shift from Efficiency to Meaning (Special Episode)

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Oren Michels is an entrepreneur, investor, board member, and advisor to technology startups in the US and Europe. He is the co-founder and CEO of Barndoor AI, the control plane for agentic AI, and the founder who previously helped define the API management category with Mashery, acquired by Intel in 2013. He is also a Tony-nominated Broadway and Off-Broadway producer whose credits include Romeo+Juliet and Good Night, and Good Luck starring George Clooney.

In this episode, Oren draws on two decades of building foundational infrastructure for the enterprise to make the case that governing AI agents is not a security problem. It is an entirely new category of problem, and most companies do not yet have the vocabulary to describe it, let alone the tools to solve it. 

If your agents can already write to your CRM, interpret your instructions, and act without life experience or fear of consequences, who is actually in control?

In this conversation, we discuss:

 • Why securing AI agents is entirely different from managing APIs, and why traditional security and identity access tools were never designed to handle what agents can do.
 • The reason most so-called agentic AI is still glorified robotic process automation, and what it will actually take to unlock enterprise value.
 • How Barndoor AI's "least privilege" framework for agents works, and why the permission logic goes far beyond the identity of the human using the tool.
 • Why an agent with delete access to your CRM is one probabilistic misfire away from a catastrophic outcome, and why ultimate responsibility always comes back to the humans operating the tools.
 • The BYO AI parallel to BYOD: why well-meaning employees using personal AI tools with company data may force the enterprise governance moment no one is ready for.
 • Why the same instinct that took Oren from API infrastructure to Broadway and back to enterprise AI may be exactly the mindset the agentic era demands from its builders.

Explore this conversation:

00:00 Intro and fun Fact

03:46 Oren Michels's Path From API Management to Building Barndoor AI

05:44 Redefining Trust: AI Lacks Life Experience and Fear of Consequences

08:24 History Repeating: Why AI Needs a Control Plane Just Like APIs Did

12:35 Deterministic APIs vs. Probabilistic Agents: Why Governing AI Is a Social Challenge

18:25 How Barndoor AI's "Least Privilege" Framework for Agents Actually Works

20:50 The Token Economy and Context Windows: Wandering Into the AI Home Depot

25:25 Preventing Catastrophic Failures: Why AI Agents Should Never Have Delete Access

31:39 The BlackBerry Moment of AI: Navigating the "BYO AI" Enterprise Trend

38:04 Balancing Tech and Creativity: From Enterprise AI to Producing on Broadway

Resources

Subscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with Oren on LinkedInAI fun fact articleOn How AI may eliminate jobs: what the data reveals

385: From API Management to Agent Control: Why Governing AI Actions Is the Only Path to Enterprise Value, with Oren Michels, Co-Founder and CEO of Barndoor AI

Special Episode: Why Real AI Progress Starts With Saying "I Don’t Know", with Stefan Weitz, CEO of HumanX - Live from HumanX 2026

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