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Personal Finance Expert | Cumulus Podcast Network

Paula Pant

45 million downloads. One question: what does it actually take to build wealth?

Each week, Paula Pant brings in economists, investors, business leaders, authors, and researchers to dig into the five pillars of financial freedom — financial psychology, increasing income, investing, real estate, and entrepreneurship. Deep insights rooted in economics and behavioral finance. First-principles thinking. No surface-level tips.

Follow or Subscribe to hear new episodes every Tuesday and Friday.

Get smarter with money. Build wealth.

Afford Anything

#752: A caller's rental is performing fine, but a late-paying tenant and a roof replacement have her ready to sell it before she moves to Madrid for her MBA. Paula argues the real fix isn't selling — it's a hire she hasn't made yet.

This week, Joe joins Paula to help a caller decide whether to sell a rental property from abroad, then dig into new data on why women's labor force participation dropped in July while their share of new jobs surged in August.

In this episode, we discuss:

 How to tell if you're making the right call for the wrong reason

 Why a new roof or a set of windows can be a form of forced investing

 The one hire that can solve the same problem as selling your rental

 A simple way to estimate a rental property's real return

 What to weigh before selling a working investment on gut feel alone

 Why women's labor force participation fell in July even as their job gains led the year

 Why the trades are becoming a stronger bet than a four-year degree for some new grads

This one's for anyone facing a big financial decision that feels more emotional than mathematical — whether that's a rental property, a career move, or a job you're not sure is worth keeping.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements. 

(01:45) Why she wants to sell a rental that's "objectively good"

(03:25) When it's actually okay to sell a good investment

(10:03) One hire that stops panic-selling a rental property

(14:44) The simple math to compare rental returns vs. stocks

(17:31) Paula's own confession about hating her first rental property

(22:22) Why doing what you're best at beats doing everything yourself

(30:11) 100% of last month's labor force drop was women

(31:54) The real reasons women are leaving the workforce right now

(32:18) Why women got 85% of new jobs created this year

(47:00) The industry that could fix jobs and housing at once

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

👉 Torn on selling a rental? Get our free 10-day guide, which includes a deal-analysis exercise to help you decide with the numbers, not just your gut: https://affordanything.com/fiire

 👉 Sign up for our newsletter (get the new site first): https://affordanything.com/newsletter 

👉 Leave us a voicemail with your own money question: https://affordanything.com/voicemail

 👉 Read the BLS jobs report Paula cites in this episode: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

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Q&A: I’m Tired of Managing My Rental Property. Should I Sell It?

#751: The belief that’s quietly sabotaging your progress might not even be true. Free worksheet to question it: https://affordanything.com/turn-it-around

Two people can grow up with the exact same test scores — and as adults, one of them ends up earning double the other. Psychologist Marisa Franco says the deciding factor isn't intelligence, and it isn't luck. It's whether you actually believe good things are allowed to happen to you.

Dr. Marisa Franco is a psychologist and professor at the University of Maryland, and the New York Times bestselling author of Platonic. She's back to talk about her new book, Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment.

In this episode, we discuss:

 How self-worth — not intelligence or family income — predicts how much you'll earn as an adult

 Why some people quietly sabotage their own portfolio right before they hit financial independence

 The difference between "good" and "bad" high self-esteem, and why one of them wrecks relationships

 Why getting more love or praise than you expect can make you pull away instead of lean in

 How to actually process a hard emotion instead of shoving it down

 Why hitting a big financial goal can leave you feeling strangely empty once you get there

 How to rebuild your sense of self after losing an identity you were attached to

Whether you've ever undermined your own progress right before a finish line, or wondered why reaching a goal didn't feel the way you thought it would, this episode gives you a framework for understanding — and changing — that pattern.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements. 

(02:05) The two very different types of high self-esteem 

(04:36) Self-esteem vs. self-worth: the real difference 

(05:37) Why self-worth predicts income more than SAT scores

(12:21) Sabotaging your own portfolio right before you hit FI

(14:15) The self-fulfilling prophecy behind financial fear 

(23:36) Why too much love can make you pull away 

(25:05) How low self-worth blocks promotions and job offers

(36:13) The memory trick that can change your brain 

(46:19) Why self-worth matters most in a bad market 

(1:06:10) Does self-worth actually drive your net worth?

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

 👉 Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment: https://drmarisagfranco.com/worth-the-book/

 👉 Marisa's website (speaking, articles, more): https://drmarisagfranco.com

 👉 Marisa on Instagram (for signed copies via Lost City Books): https://www.instagram.com/drmarisagfranco/

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Why Self-Worth Predicts Your Income More Than Your SAT Score Does, with Marisa Franco

#750: Free worksheet: question the belief that might be keeping you stuck — before reality forces the update for you: http://affordanything.com/turn-it-around

Alec Litowitz spent three decades building one of the world's largest hedge funds, and he says the highest-IQ people in the room are often the last to notice the world has changed. His answer isn't more intelligence — it's the willingness to be wrong, quickly, and update before everyone else catches up.

Alec co-founded Citadel alongside Ken Griffin and later founded Magnetar Capital, one of the largest alternative asset managers in the world. His new book, The Adaptability Quotient, is out September 15.

In this episode, we discuss:

 How adaptability quotient (AQ) differs from IQ and EQ — and why it matters more now

 What a doomed Antarctic expedition reveals about real adaptability

 Why AI makes knowledge abundant and judgment scarce

 How to stop needing to be right so you can update faster

 The real reason Blockbuster lost to Netflix (it wasn't a bad decision)

 A 4-part test for telling a temporary shift from a permanent one

 Why a "diversified" portfolio might secretly be one big bet right now

This episode is for anyone whose career, portfolio, or plans feel less certain than they used to — a way of thinking that doesn't require predicting the future, just noticing when your old model has stopped working.

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Your "Diversified" Portfolio Might Secretly Be One Big Bet on AI, with Alec Litowitz

#749: Michael Hingson was on the 78th floor of the North Tower of the World Trade Center when the first plane hit on Sept. 11.

He felt the impact, but couldn’t see it. Michael has been blind since shortly after birth.

Alongside his guide dog, Roselle, they descended 1,463 steps – escaping just before the South Tower, 100 yards away, collapsed. They then helped a woman who was temporarily blinded by the dust.

Michael's story answers the question – What do you do when something terrifying is happening, you don't have enough information, you cannot control the outcome, and everyone around you is beginning to panic?

Michael's answer is surprisingly practical. 

1. Prepare before you need the preparation. 

2. Know what you know, know what you don't know. 

3. Stop mentally rehearsing outcomes you cannot control

4. Keep acting on the part that remains within your control. 

He had deliberately learned the World Trade Center's exits, emergency procedures, physical layout, and systems long before Sept 11 because he believed that was part of being responsible for his office. 

When the building was struck, he describes that preparation as a “mindset” that simply kicked in.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements.

(00:00) Life before September 11

(24:34) The plane hits the North Tower

(34:03) Fear takes over in the stairwell

(1:04:01) Turning tragedy into a new career

(1:28:02) Challenging attitudes about blindness

(1:38:01) Supporting guide dog organizations

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

 michaelhingson.com

 guidedogs.com

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How a Blind Man and His Guide Dog Survived Sept. 11 — and What His Mindset Can Teach Us, with Michael Hingson

#748: The real question behind quitting a job you love or paying off debt anyway? Your money mindset. Take our free quiz to find yours: https://affordanything.com/fiire

A listener with $686,000 saved and a job she loves wants to take her family on a year-long trip — but Paula says her real question isn't about money at all. Later: a dad chooses to stop maxing his IRA to pay off a mortgage, even though the math says otherwise.

Joe joins from the road to help answer three listener questions: a family weighing a year off against a job she loves, a dad debating whether to stop maxing his IRA to pay off a house, and a longtime listener with a smarter way to save for college.

In this episode, we discuss:

 How to decide whether a job you love is worth walking away from for a family gap year

 The three factors that actually predict whether you'll love your next job

 Why "retiring early" might be the wrong goal — and what to aim for instead

 How to know if you're financially ready for a career break, and what to prep first

 Why paying off your mortgage can beat investing, even when the math says otherwise

 How to structure your mortgage term like a finance pro (and why the 30-year can win)

 Why saving in separate, labeled accounts makes it easier to actually hit your goals

Whether you're weighing a big life pivot, deciding what to do with extra cash, or just trying to make saving feel less abstract, this episode offers frameworks — not just formulas — for making the call.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements.

(07:12) Can you afford to quit a job you love?

(11:09) Three things that actually predict job satisfaction

(17:05) Why this window with your kids won't come twice

(22:20) Why retiring often beats retiring early

(30:14) Why bad trip experiences count as good data

(34:18) Why paying off debt can beat the math

(36:49) Why coasting on your current savings pace is risky

(44:26) How to think like a CFO about your mortgage

(51:09) Why one bucket per goal makes saving easier

(53:46) Why your 401k isn't really about retirement

🔗 OTHER RESOURCES

👉 The real question behind quitting a job you love or paying off debt anyway? Your money mindset. Take our free quiz to find yours: https://affordanything.com/fiire

👉 Camp Fi, the financial independence retreats Paula and Joe swap stories about this episode: https://campfi.org

👉 Heavy Metal Money, Chris Luger's personal-finance podcast (Joe recorded this episode from his place): https://heavymetal.money

👉 Got a question of your own? Leave a voicemail for Paula: https://affordanything.com/voicemail

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Q&A: My Dream Job Won't Wait If I Take a Family Gap Year — Do I Quit Anyway?

#747: We have good news on multiple fronts to share about the job market, the stock market, the commodities market, and volatile news around the bond market.

And we begin it with some great news coming out of Nepal.

Welcome to the First Friday episode for September 2026.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements. 

(00:00) Rescued workers in Nepal

(04:53) Strong August jobs report

(10:14) Conflicting employment data

(12:27) Strong jobs, weaker stocks

(17:43) Why bonds matter more

(23:17) Inflation drives Treasury yields

(29:45) Hidden risks in bonds

(36:50) Treasury buyback controversy

(43:32) Liquidity versus warning signs

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

👉 Build a Life of Financial Freedom with our free workbook: https://affordanything.com/fiire

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

First Friday: Hope in Nepal; Trouble in the Bond Market

#746: We begin today’s episode with a discussion of the disastrous flash flooding in Nepal, a personal topic for Paula given her family there. There’s both a human story, one of the resilience of the Nepalese people and the strong community bonds there, and an economic story, where poor infrastructure and a lack of economic development have hindered disaster response and exacerbated the tragedies of recent events. 

Listeners can donate to help the victims here: 

The Prime Minister Relief Fund: https://pmdrf.nchl.com.np/

Caritas Nepal: https://www.caritasnepal.org/donate-now/

Learn more about the ongoing rescue efforts at https://help.ekantipur.com/

A caller wants to put part of her mom's $80,000 home-sale proceeds into an annuity — and it left her financial-planner co-host doing a double take. Turns out it might be the first caller in the show's history the product was actually built for.

This week's Q&A tackles two retirement questions from listeners: when it makes sense to ease off maxing out a 401k in favor of a more flexible brokerage account, and whether a guaranteed-income annuity is the right move for a retiree who isn't great at managing money on her own.

In this episode, we discuss:

 How to know when to stop maxing out your 401k and start filling a taxable brokerage account instead

 The real "deal" you're making with the government every time you use a tax-advantaged account

 Why an insurance company can keep 100% of the money if the annuity holder dies too soon — and how to avoid it

 The one type of person a guaranteed-income annuity is actually built for

 A simple daily habit trick for building consistency, borrowed from a world-class choreographer

 Why doing everything right doesn't guarantee a good outcome, and what that means for your own decisions

 What Nepal's disaster response reveals about the real payoff of economic development

Whether you're mapping out an early-retirement bridge or helping a parent build guardrails around a windfall, this episode will help you think more clearly about the trade-offs each option carries.

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

👉 Not sure which investments belong in your 401k, your Roth, or your taxable account? Grab our free guide to figuring out where each one goes: https://affordanything.com/assetlocation

 👉 Morgan Housel on the split-second decision that changed everything: https://affordanything.com/488-gut-instincts-and-big-decisions-with-morgan-housel/ 

👉 Our interview with retirement researcher Dr. Wade Pfau on annuities and retirement income: https://affordanything.com/271-retirement-planning-in-2020-with-dr-wade-pfau/

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Q&A: What Nepal Reveals About Wealth and Safety

#745: A friend once asked Sahil Bloom how often he saw his parents. About once a year, Sahil said.

How old are they? Mid-60s.

His friend did the math out loud. If they live to 80, you'll see them 15 more times.

Sahil was 30, living in California and making great money at a venture fund. Within 45 days of that conversation, he quit his job, sold his house and moved across the country to be near family.

He's now managing partner of SRB Ventures, an early-stage fund backing more than 60 startups, and he writes The Curiosity Chronicle, a newsletter read by millions. His book, "The 5 Types of Wealth," is a New York Times bestseller.

His framework starts with a scoring problem. Financial wealth gets measured every day. Time, social, mental and physical wealth run in the background, unmeasured, until something forces you to look.

You'll get exercises for each. Build an energy calendar that tracks which activities charge you up and which drain you.

Map your relationships by how healthy and how frequent they are. Ask what your family and your community need from you. Define what "enough" means in dollars, then write the number down.

Sahil also walks through anti-goals — the things you refuse to sacrifice on the way to a goal — and Memento Mori, the Roman habit of keeping your own death in view.

Two questions run underneath all of it. Think about how you spent yesterday. Would your 10-year-old self be impressed? Would your 90-year-old self?

You don't experience all four seasons in a single day. Sahil argues your life runs on seasons too. Some stretches call for financial growth. Others call for family.

Find Sahil at the5typesofwealth.com.
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The Four Kinds of Rich Nobody Counts -- with Sahil Bloom [GREATEST HITS]

#744: With about $200 and a crypto exchange, historian Joseph Moore turned himself into a legitimate billionaire — a stunt that says more about how money actually works than most financial advice does. It's also a preview of the 300-year argument he makes in this episode: that almost everything we're told about money is newer, and far less permanent, than we think.Joseph Moore, PhD, is a historian and the national bestselling author of How to Get Rich in American History: 300 Years of Financial Advice That Worked (& Didn't). His own self-experiments with historical money strategies helped him become financially independent in his mid-40s.

In this episode, we discuss:

 How "never save your money" used to be completely reasonable financial advice

 Why bonds quietly beat stocks for nearly all of the 1800s

 How to spot when today's "obvious" financial rules are about to expire

 Why real estate booms always show up right alongside inflation spikes

 Why young people's unemployment is outpacing everyone else's — and what history says to do about it

 Why economic optimism and economic data have stopped matching up

 Why building more housing is the only housing-crisis fix that's ever actually worked

This one's for anyone who feels like the rules of money keep changing under them — because they do, and always have. Understanding that pattern is the first step to building wealth in whatever era you happen to be living in.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements.

(05:18) How a runaway slave built his own legal currency

(06:52) How he legally declared himself a crypto billionaire

(13:22) Why a fifth of the Smithsonian's money collection is fake

(15:52) The bestselling book that told readers to commit fraud

(20:10) The decades when bonds quietly beat stocks

(26:04) How his grandfather secretly became a bond millionaire

(31:09) Why that "$10K in 1929" chart is misleading

(48:02) Why wages are up 50% and nobody believes it

(1:06:39) Why most Americans once owned one shirt

(1:23:48) The rent control law that backfired for renters

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

👉 Build a Life of Financial Freedom with our free workbook: https://affordanything.com/fiire 

👉 Joseph Moore's site — his book, essays, and more: https://www.josephmoorebooks.com 

👉 Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robin & Joe Dominguez: https://vickirobin.com/your-money-or-your-life/ 

👉 The Latte Factor by David Bach: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Latte-Factor/David-Bach/9781982120245
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This Historian Says We're Living in the Best Era Ever, with Joseph Moore

#743: Everyone talks about a loneliness epidemic — but Luke Burgis argues the opposite problem is just as real: we now have so much easy, frictionless community that we never have to develop a solid sense of who we actually are.

Luke Burgis is a professor of business at The Catholic University of America and the founder of the Cluny Institute, and the bestselling author of Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life. He returns to the show to talk about his new book, The One and the Ninety-Nine.

In this episode, we discuss:

 

Why having too much easy community can be just as damaging as having none at all

 

How to tell whether your beliefs are actually yours — or something you inherited without ever examining it

 

Why cutting people off has quietly become the default response to conflict

 

How to stop shrinking yourself just to keep other people comfortable

 

The zero-tolerance rule Luke enforces at his own company to kill passive-aggressiveness before it starts

 

How Luke actually decides who to trust, hire, and build relationships with

 

What an existential crisis at 29 — and five humbling years training for the priesthood — taught a successful entrepreneur about identity

This episode is for anyone who feels the pull between fitting in and standing out — in your family, your workplace, or your online life. Luke offers a way to build an identity solid enough to hold up under pressure, without giving up on real community.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 

Note: Timestamps may vary slightly depending on dynamic ad placements.

(7:42) Two competing drives wired into every human being

(10:11) Why group pressure breaks some people and not others

(17:39) Why cutting people off replaced working through conflict

(19:39) The real number of close friends you actually need

(26:51) Where your beliefs actually came from

(32:00) You're not responsible for how someone else feels

(36:09) The zero-tolerance workplace rule against passive-aggressiveness

(41:22) How to actually tell who you can trust

(53:33) The existential crisis that sent an entrepreneur toward the seminary

(55:39) The humbling lesson hidden in a vending machine

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED

👉 This free 10-day workbook helps you trace your money habits back to whether they're actually yours — starting with your own money mindset — https://affordanything.com/fiire

👉 Luke's website (books, newsletter, and more) — https://lukeburgis.com 

👉 Luke's new book, The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion — https://www.amazon.com/One-Ninety-Nine-Forging-Identity-Contagion/dp/1250373034 

👉 Paul Graham's essay "Cities and Ambition," on how the place you live shapes what you want — https://paulgraham.com/cities.html

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Everyone Wants a Piece of You. Here's How to Stay Whole -- with Luke Burgis

#573: An anonymous caller has always put her large purchases on zero percent APR credit cards, but something’s been nagging at her. Is she walking on thin ice with this strategy?

Von is confused why he keeps hearing that Roth accounts are better than traditional if they both lead to the same mathematical result. What’s he missing? 

Molly and her husband are well on their way to financial independence, but they feel unfulfilled with their careers. Can they afford to plunge into student debt with a 50 percent pay cut?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these three questions in today’s episode.
Enjoy!
P.S. Got a question? Leave it at https://affordanything.com/voicemail

For more information, visit the show notes at https://affordanything.com/episode573
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Q&A: Wait, Are We All Wrong About Zero APR Strategies?

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