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Kelly Chase & Jay Christopher King

Reality isn’t what you’ve been told.
Cosmosis is your portal to the edge of what we know—and what we don’t. Hosted by writer and researcher Kelly Chase (The UFO Rabbit Hole) and lifelong experiencer and filmmaker Jay Christopher King (The Experiencer Group), this podcast explores the mysteries of UFOs, non-human intelligence, consciousness, the paranormal, and the hidden architectures of reality.
We’re not here for manufactured narratives about UFO disclosure or sanitized intelligence community talking points. We’re after the real story—one that’s far stranger, far more beautiful, and far more transformative than we've ever been told.
Each episode brings you in-the-field conversations and deep-dive interviews with experiencers, researchers, scientists, and visionaries—people pushing the boundaries of what’s possible and reimagining what it means to be human.
If you’ve ever felt the signal beneath the noise… if you’re ready to question everything and follow that signal into the unknown—you’re in the right place.
This is Cosmosis.
Come with us.
Brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.
https://Cosmosis.Media

[This is also where you can find all the archives from The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast.]

The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast

In this episode, Kelly Chase sits down with Dana Kippel—author of A New Force: Plasma, Consciousness, and the New Human Potential—to dive into her vision of plasma as a multidimensional, living intelligence that carries both consciousness and information. Dana opens up about her path as an experiencer, the role of downloads and intuition in her work, and why embracing the feminine side of plasma is key to unlocking human potential.

We talk about what it means to navigate reality through both science and spirit, how vulnerability can become a superpower, and why so many people are resonating with her message online. This conversation is raw, inspiring, and full of insights that reframe what it means to live in a participatory cosmos.

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

 
Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com

 
Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media

Resources & References

 
Dana Kippel, A New Force: Plasma, Consciousness, and the New Human Potential https://a.co/d/2Vq0kLx

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

https://www.cosmosis.media/

Join the Patreon: 

https://cosmosiscommunity.com

Subscribe to Cosmosis:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

Follow Cosmosis

X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media

Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117

Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC

TIMESTAMPS

05:27 Dana's Early Experiences with the Anomalous

08:31 The Impact of Trauma on Anomalous Experiences

12:39 Navigating Social Media and Personal Growth

19:08 Dana's Journey into Plasma Research

24:18 The Role of Women in Plasma Studies

32:47 The Hero's Journey and Authenticity

35:20 Sharing Personal Struggles and Authenticity

36:05 The Illusion of Enlightenment

38:10 Understanding Plasma: Science and Beyond

39:04 Plasma as a Multidimensional Substance

56:26 Exploring the Divine Feminine and Plasma

01:04:10 Future Projects and Final Thoughts

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A New Force: Dana Kippel on Plasma, Consciousness, and the Divine Feminine

In this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King are joined by philosopher James Madden, author of Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World. Jim has been part of this journey with us from the very beginning, appearing on The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast and in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality.

Together, we take a hard look at the state of ufology and how belief, ideology, and language shape the way we think about the phenomenon. We ask tough questions: Has ufology become a kind of religion? What does it mean to practice good “epistemic hygiene” in a field so vulnerable to disinformation and self-deception? How can we avoid falling into old patterns of certainty while still honoring the mystery?

This is a conversation about curiosity, responsibility, and the courage to sit with the unknown. Whether you’re new to the field or a long-time experiencer, Jim’s insights cut through the noise and remind us that sometimes the most important thing isn’t finding the answer—but learning to ask better questions.

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

 
Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com

 
Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media

Resources & References

 
James D. Madden, Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World: https://a.co/d/4F2Tpcl

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

https://www.cosmosis.media/

Join the Patreon: 

https://cosmosiscommunity.com

Subscribe to Cosmosis:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

Follow Cosmosis

X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media

Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117

Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC

TIMESTAMPS

04:57 The Evolution of Ufology: A Personal Perspective

07:37 Ufology as a Religion: Belief and Skepticism

14:15 The Hero's Journey in Ufology

29:59 Challenges in Ufology: Secrecy and Belonging

34:43 Navigating Blind Spots in Public Discourse

36:32 The Illusion of Ease in Public Engagement

37:42 The Trap of Daily Grind and Outrage Cycles

40:02 Questioning the UFO Narrative

44:13 Skepticism and Authority in the UFO Community

46:33 The Role of Media and Public Perception

54:02 Positive Aspects of Ufology

56:15 The Power of Unanswerable Questions

59:05 Maintaining Intellectual Sovereignty

01:04:31 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude

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The Call Is Coming From Inside The House: James Madden on Belief, Doubt, and UFOs

In this episode, Jay sits down with author of Time, Myth and Matter, LD Deutsch, for a wide-ranging conversation about time, myth, consciousness, and the instability of reality itself. LD Deutsch shares her journey from precognitive dreams to the cutting edge of consciousness studies, weaving together threads of Jungian psychology, mythology, physics, and technology.

Together, they explore:

 
How myth and physics act as complementary ways of “reading” reality.

 
The strange synchronicity between the I Ching and the birth of binary code.

 
Why the Simulation Hypothesis functions more like a creation myth than a scientific theory.

 
The paradox of time—eternalism versus presentism—and what it means for precognition.

 
The role of synchronicity, archetypes, and trickster phenomena at the boundaries of the unknown.

LD Deutsch’s insights point to a deeper, underlying order where psyche and matter are inseparably linked—and where the stories we tell become the architectures of reality itself.

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

 
Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com

 
Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

Resources & References

 
LD Deutsch, Time, Myth and Matter: https://www.sacredbonesrecords.com/products/sbb022-ld-deutsch-time-myth-and-matter?srsltid=AfmBOoow94a8kN69LM0qXghhuVun28QTBmv0mlBE6r6FjxzZKHEeOiKF

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

https://www.cosmosis.media/

Join the Patreon: 

https://cosmosiscommunity.com

Subscribe to Cosmosis:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

Follow Cosmosis

X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media

Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117

Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC

TIMESTAMPS

04:23 L.D.'s Journey and Inspirations

13:38 Exploring the I Ching and Binary Code

23:55 Techno-Mythology and the Simulation Hypothesis

44:35 The Paradox of Simulated Realities

45:41 Big Bang and Creation Myths

46:50 Eternalism vs. Presentism

47:40 Three Types of Time

50:35 The Block Universe Model

54:00 Reconciling Physics and Neuroscience

58:32 Precognition and Consciousness

01:03:39 Synchronicities and Consciousness

01:10:05 Archetypes and the Unknown

01:16:00 New Myths for a New Era

01:25:19 Future Research Directions
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Reading Reality: Myth, Time, and the Simulation Hypothesis with LD Deutsch

What if 99% of the universe holds the key to understanding UFOs, paranormal phenomena, and even consciousness itself?

In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King dive deep into the plasma hypothesis—a paradigm-shifting idea that plasma, the fourth state of matter, may act as a substrate for intelligence. Fresh from the University of Exeter workshop on plasma cosmology (with thinkers like Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, and Nick Cook), Kelly unpacks the conversations that are reshaping the frontier of science and anomalous studies.

Together, Kelly and Jay explore:

 
What plasma actually is and why it makes up nearly all of the visible universe.

 
Robert Temple’s groundbreaking book A New Science of Heaven and its implications for UFOs and consciousness studies.

 
Why orb encounters and plasma-like phenomena may be central to the experiencer narrative.

 
The limits of materialist explanations—and why plasma may not explain everything.

 
How process philosophy and transpersonal psychology open new frameworks for exploring intelligent plasma.

 
The overlap between orbs, UFOs, cryptids, and the land of the dead.

 
The risks of overreach and the need to resist turning plasma into the next “quantum” catch-all.

From the cutting edge of astrophysics to the lived realities of experiencers, this conversation wrestles with the biggest question of all: could plasma be the hidden medium of mind, matter, and mystery?

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

 
Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com

 
Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.MediaMusic for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

Resources & References

 
Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven: https://a.co/d/9cIc6Ec

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

https://www.cosmosis.media/

Join the Patreon: 

https://cosmosiscommunity.com

Subscribe to Cosmosis:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

Follow Cosmosis

X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media

Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:

Spotify: 

https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ

Apple Music:

 https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117

Amazon:

 https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC

TIMESTAMPS

01:51 Diving into Plasma Cosmology

03:45 Understanding Plasma: The Fourth State of Matter

06:55 The Potential of Plasma as a Substrate for Intelligence

09:53 Speculations on Plasma and Anomalous Phenomena

14:14 Challenges in Defining Plasma Intelligence

20:26 Exploring Plasma's Physical and Non-Physical Interactions

27:49 Philosophical Perspectives on Plasma Intelligence

31:53 Exploring Paranormal Phenomena

32:40 Interdimensional Theories and Consciousness

34:44 Plasma and Human Connection

35:24 Historical UFO Cases

38:35 Life, Death, and Plasma Phenomena

48:23 Orbs and UFOs: A Deeper Look

56:40 Future Research and Exploration

58:55 Closing Remarks and Community Engagement

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Plasma, Consciousness & the Future of Anomalous Studies

In this episode, Kelly shares her recent paper Unfurling the Myth, presented at the University of Exeter during a workshop on Process Philosophy, Plasma Cosmology, and Transpersonal Psychology. This gathering brought together scientists, philosophers, and researchers—including Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, Massimo Teodorani, and Nick Cook—to explore the possibility that plasma, the fourth state of matter, could serve as a substrate for non-biological intelligence.

Kelly’s paper argues that the UFO phenomenon is not just an anomaly in the sky but a relational event—an encounter that engages the psyche through the deep structures of narrative. Rather than delivering answers, the phenomenon generates mystery, catalyzing transformation on both personal and cultural levels.

Drawing on thinkers like Robert Temple, Jacques Vallée, and Eric Davis, as well as research in narrative cognition and the psychology of curiosity, Kelly explores how UFOs may function as mythic initiators: destabilizing our categories of knowledge, activating curiosity, and compelling us to tell new stories. These stories are not just interpretations but mechanisms of reality-making—reshaping our understanding of self, world, and cosmos.

 
Plasma cosmology and the possibility of plasma-based intelligence

 
The UFO as relational event, not just object or craft

 
Narrative as a generative interface between psyche and field

 
How curiosity and myth catalyze transformation

 
The “Call to Adventure” in experiencer narratives

 
Cultural and personal shifts documented in experiencer research

 
The UFO as evolutionary function, seeding new myths and meanings

Whether you’re new to these ideas or steeped in the mysteries of UFOs, this episode invites you to consider the phenomenon not as something to solve, but as something to participate in—a story in which we are all co-creators.

Resources

 
Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven

 
Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis, Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness

 
George Loewenstein, The Psychology of Curiosity

 
Will Storr, The Science of Storytelling

 
Stanislav & Christina Grof, Spiritual Emergency

 
Hernandez et al., Beyond UFOs

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

https://www.cosmosis.media/

Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismedia

Subscribe to Cosmosis:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

Follow Cosmosis

X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media

Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117

Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC

TIMESTAMPS

00:38 Exploring Plasma Cosmology

01:22 The Significance of Plasma-Based Intelligence

02:20 Introduction to the Paper: Unfurling the Myth

03:25 Understanding the UFO Phenomenon

04:51 The Role of Narrative in UFO Encounters

06:45 Rethinking the UFO

11:25 Curiosity and the Mythic Initiation

15:30 Awakening the Hero Within

19:57 Remaking the World Through UFO Encounters

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Unfurling The Myth: Narrative As Interface Between Psyche & The Field

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Fourth Wall Phantoms with Joshua Cutchin

[Trailer] The New Season of Cosmosis Is Coming Soon

Fan favorite, James Madden, has a brand new project with his brilliant co-host Jared Zimmerer called The Great Dangerous Books Podcast. Check out this episode to catch the vibe of the show, and if you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. 

Subscribe to The Great Dangerous Books Podcast

Spotify

Apple Podcasts

YouTube

In this episode, Jim and Jared discuss the complexities of the UFO phenomenon with special guest Kelly Chase, focusing on Jacques Vallee's influential work 'Messengers of Deception.' They explore themes of manipulation, the unconscious, and the power of images in shaping belief systems. The conversation delves into the psychological impact of UFO experiences, the dangers of ontological shock, and the need for critical thinking in the field of ufology. Throughout, they emphasize the importance of self-awareness and the challenges of integrating extraordinary experiences into one's worldview.

TIMESTAMPS

01:28 Introducing Kelly Chase and Her Work

03:09 Exploring Jacques Vallee's 'Messengers of Deception'

05:17 Vallee's Perspective on UFOs and Manipulation

09:47 The Reliability of Jacques Vallee

12:05 The Nature of Reality and Ideological Structures

15:04 The Impact of Ontological Shock

18:45 The Role of the Unconscious in UFO Phenomena

22:08 The Dangers of Manipulation and Belief Systems

27:44 Connecting Modernity and Public Manipulation

32:56 The Internet's Oppenheimer: Valet's Perspective

35:32 The Power of Images and Human Manipulation

39:57 Gnosticism and the Quest for Knowledge

44:05 The Nature of UFO Phenomena and Human Belief

47:35 The Intersection of Science and Mythology

52:11 Critical Inquiry and the Nature of Belief

55:32 The Joy of Inquiry and the Dangers of Ufology

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[The Great Dangerous Books Podcast] Jacques Vallée's 'Messengers of Deception' with Kelly Chase

In this episode of Cosmosis, Jay Christopher King sits down with historian and esoteric scholar Mitch Horowitz for a wide-ranging conversation about magic, consciousness, and the anomalous. He is the author of numerous books Occult America, The Miracle Club, and Practical Magick, Mitch is a singular voice who bridges the academy, pop culture, and the esoteric underground with rare clarity and rigor.
Together, they explore:

The convergence between magical practice and parapsychology

Ritual as an experimental interface with anomalous phenomena

The significance of emotional investment and “skin in the game” in psi effects

Chaos magic, sigils, and how to test magical practice for yourself

Ethics in magic and the overlooked power of reciprocity

Sexual transmutation and sex magic as tools of transformation

The strange reality of retrocausality and backwards time effects

The cultural blind spots of mainstream science and skepticism

Mitch’s pivotal experience editing The Super Natural with Whitley Strieber and Jeff Kripal 

This episode offers a powerful invitation to take magic seriously—not as superstition, but as a methodology of intention, experimentation, and meaning-making. Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or an experiencer just starting to make sense of your reality, Mitch’s grounded, historically informed approach opens new doors.
🎧 Listen if you’re curious about:

How magical frameworks might stabilize or map high-strangeness phenomena

What it means to “test” magic—and why your results might come dressed in the unexpected

How to reclaim personal agency in the face of ontological shock

More From Mitch Horowitz

Books

Substack

Podcast

X

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Donate to The Experiencer Grouphttps://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=TBPJNDVY9QJFUJoin the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107
Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC
TIMESTAMPS​04:55 Diving into the Conversation with Mitch Horowitz05:20 Exploring the Intersection of Magic and Ufology23:01 Mitch Horowitz's Journey into Magic26:51 Ethics and Practical Magic37:08 Introduction to Sil Magic37:51 Origins and Practice of Sil Magic39:30 The Role of Climax in Sil Magic41:26 Anarchic Magic and Deity Petition43:55 Exploring Sex Magic48:48 Sex Transmutation Techniques52:19 Backwards Causation and Time01:06:10 Parapsychology and JB Rhine's Experiments01:11:19 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Ep 12: Magic, Consciousness, and Anomalous Reality with Mitch Horowitz

In this special episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase presents an updated version of her 2025 Contact in the Desert keynote, “UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure.” This talk goes beyond the surface of the UFO phenomenon to explore the hidden architecture of secrecy and the sophisticated mechanics of narrative control.

Drawing from deep research into intelligence tradecraft, counterintelligence, and disinformation—along with firsthand interactions with members of the intelligence community—Kelly unpacks how belief itself becomes a weapon in the battle for truth. From psychological operations to perception management, from limited hangouts to the “secret onion” model of secrecy, this episode reveals how our search for answers is being actively shaped, steered, and contained.

But this isn’t a story about villains. It’s a call to responsibility. Kelly challenges listeners to reclaim their intellectual sovereignty, resist easy answers, and build discernment in an information landscape designed to confuse. Whether you're a skeptic, experiencer, journalist, or just UFO-curious, this talk will change how you see not just the phenomenon—but the stories we tell about it.

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC 

TIMESTAMPS

02:55 The Role of Intelligence in UFO Narratives

07:42 The Complexity of Secrecy and Perception Management

16:08 The Secret Onion: Layers of Deception

26:35 The Scale and Impact of Institutionalized Secrecy

37:31 Heroes, Villains, and Controlled Opposition

45:58 The Power of Sincere Belief

48:10 The Hero Trap in UFO Narratives

50:47 Counterintelligence and Narrative Control

54:14 The 80-20 Rule in Disinformation

55:49 Limited Hangouts and Perception Management

01:00:54 Character Assassination and Narrative Flooding

01:08:03 The Weaponization of Belief

01:14:50 Reclaiming Intellectual Sovereignty
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Ep 11: UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure

In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowBOOKS BY MIKE CLELLANDThe Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO AbducteeThe UnseenMore Books By Mike ClellandFOLLOW MIKE CLELLANDTwitterWebsiteGET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

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[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen

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