George Saunders On: Getting Un-Stuck, Calming the Inner Critic, and Building Empathy Without Becoming a Chump

A conversation with celebrated author George Saunders about his new novel, Vigil, and what fiction can teach us about empathy, self-awareness, and mortality. George Saunders is the bestselling, award-winning author of Lincoln in the Bardo, Tenth of December, and many other books. His new novel, Vigil, tells the story of a woman who died in 1976 and has spent the decades since comforting the dying—until she encounters a former oil executive responsible for early climate change denial. In this conversation, Dan and George talk about: •

Why George keeps writing about ghosts and the afterlife (hint: it's not just about mortality dread) • •

The lavish empathy at the heart of Vigil—and whether we should extend that empathy even to people doing civilizational damage • •

What George calls "warm metacognition"—the practice of dropping back out of your thought loops to examine what kind of goggles you're wearing • •

How fiction can turn your mind into a "reconsideration machine" (and why that matters in real life) • •

The difference between kindness and niceness • •

George's relationship with death anxiety, which he's had since childhood and which has only intensified with age • •

What George has learned about listening from teaching and hosting his Substack, Story Club • •

Why the older he gets, the more important it is to stretch himself creatively • •

His advice for dealing with stuckness (in writing and in life): curiosity over self-accusation • George's new novel Vigil is out January 27th from Random House. Check out his Substack, Story Club, where he discusses classic short stories with an incredibly thoughtful community. Related Episodes: •

George Saunders on "Holy Befuddlement" and How to Be Less of a "Turd" • Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here Follow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTok Subscribe to our YouTube Channel To advertise on the show, contact sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris