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Eileen Dunn

The Art of Listening

Join us on our journey into the space between speaker and listener.

Introducing The Art of Listening

On the surface, today’s communication technology may appear as a utopia for human connection. We can message and video call anyone we want at any time we choose, yet in order to embrace these means of communication, true and meaningful human connection must be sacrificed.

The value of genuine human-to-human relationships and interactions has never been more important. Particularly in the therapeutic space, where quick-fix technology has begun masquerading as a solution to our growing disconnect.

Thankfully, Linda Michaels is on a mission to bring the humanity back into modern therapy. 

Linda is a co-founder of the nonprofit organization Psychotherapy Action Network (PsiAN) which advocates for awareness and policy to bring talk therapy to as many people as possible.

In this episode of The Art of Listening, she shares her personal journey abroad and in the business world, which led her to make a significant shift into the field of psychology. Through her experiences, she will illustrate how she discovered the importance of human connection and why she believes it is a critical factor in the realm of mental health.

We’ll also learn about how PsiAN is using research and history to defend psychotherapy’s unique proven ability to provide deep insights, healing, and personal growth– something that cannot be provided or done alone. 

Chapters

1 - Linda’s experience and business, and the search for human connection (3:57)
2 - Finding self-fulfillment in psychology (11:45)

3 - The origin of the Psychotherapy Action Network (15:00)
4 - PsiAN's research findings on human connection (19:59)
5 - Issues with modern tech “quick fixes” in therapy (25:21)
6 - Self-investment and trusting the therapy process (30:06)
7 - PsiAN's current initiatives (31:44)
8 - Eileen’s Monologue: “The Action of the Cause” (33:33)

Links

Linda MichaelsPsychotherapy Action NetworkLinda Michaels and Santiago Delboy's Psycohanalytic Journal Eileen Dunn’s Website

Human to Human: Taking action to bring human connection back to therapy with Linda Michaels

Academia is a critical part of any scientific or medical practice. It provides the necessary knowledge, skills, and research findings that form the foundation of these fields. But in a field like talk therapy, which relies on nuance and circumstance, academia also has its limitations. 

On the other hand, taking an approach to the practice which blends personal feelings, experiences, and biases alone can be equally as dangerous to patients and their providers. 

The challenge of striking this balance is something that Dhwani Shah has embraced with unwavering determination throughout his journey in the field. 

Dhwani is the author of ‘The Analyst’s Torment: Unbearable Mental States in Countertransference’, a book which tackles and demystifies this complex dynamic of ‘self’ within the patient-therapist relationship. From his life experience to his studies and private practice, Dhwani’s story epitomizes this delicate balance between knowledge and authenticity, –between simply knowing and truly being.

In this episode of the Art of Listening, Dhwani will share with us his journey in the art of listening. We will learn how he navigated the challenges of integrating personal experiences and biases while maintaining professional boundaries, and tell us how these situations have helped him improve as a listener. 

Chapters

1 - Dhwani's life at home, and experience as an Immigrant in the US (3:13)

2 - How Dhwani’s perspective of the field changed over time (7:56)
3 - Overcoming human barriers (11:30)
4 - How to show true, authentic empathy (20:30)
5 - Authentic and inauthentic listening practices (26:42)
6 - Dhwani's current studies (29:14)

Links

Dhwani ShahDhwani’s book ‘The Analyst’s Torment: Unbearable Mental States in CountertransferenceEileen Dunn’s Website

Knowing and Being: Self-awareness in Psychoanalysis and Fine-tuning Listening with Dhwani Shah

Nancy McWilliams is renowned for her immense contributions to the field of Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis. Her career, which spans six decades, has included roles in teaching, private practice, writing, and speaking. Of the many, Dr. McWilliams’ awards and achievements include the Gradiva prize, the Erikson Scholar award, and leadership, scholarship, and international academic excellence awards from Division 39 of the American Psychological Association. 

Clinicians of every theoretical persuasion appreciate her ability to translate complex theory, implications of research, and even the human dynamics between different subgroups within the profession defined most broadly into simply human and accessible language. 

In this brief and personal moment we share with Nancy in this episode, she touches on a nuance of listening to understand and be understood that doesn’t receive much attention. We seek to understand as clinicians dedicated to healing. We all yearn to be understood in the most personal and authentic way. But what people need and appreciate more than perfect understanding is to experience the effort – the ‘intent’ – to be understood. That’s what makes the space between us as fellow humans work. That’s what makes it count. As Nancy said, reiterating the fruits of much research, the outcome of work in therapy is determined by the fit and the relationship between speaker and listener, therapist and patient.

In this episode of The Art of Listening, Nancy will tell us how the power of the therapeutic process hinges on listening with the intent to understand, listening beyond reacting, listening for the meaning, the wisdom there to be received – for speaker and listener, patient and therapist.

Chapters

1 - The scientific benefits of therapeutic practice (3:59)

2 - The difficulty of listening and processing (5:23)

3 - How Nancy’s mother taught her how to listen (7:52)

4 - The difference between knowledge and wisdom (12:23)

5 - Where psychotherapy and academia do and don’t intersect (16:19)

Links

Nancy McWilliamsNancy’s Books Eileen Dunn’s Website

Intent to understand: Embracing human limits as our ultimate guide with Nancy McWilliams

Throughout our lives, in our quest for meaning, we often seek out intellectual pursuits, believing that the more we know, the more we will be able to understand ourselves and the world around us. 

While education equips us with theoretical knowledge, an excessive emphasis on intellectualism can overshadow the profound growth opportunities pure human connection is capable of, which often transcends the confines of logic. Similarly, we can only get so far analyzing our own internal thoughts, emotions, and behaviors. Genuine self-understanding requires more than just introspection. 

During his professional life, Dan Perlitz came to realize that while business ventures and academia benefitted personal growth, they still couldn’t satisfy his desire for true self-understanding. 

Dan is a physician, a former family doctor and real estate developer, and now a practicing Self-Psychological psychoanalyst in full-time practice in Toronto, Canada. Through his own experience with therapy, he realized the one crucial element missing in his search for meaning: an unbiased perspective. 

In this episode of the Art of Listening, Dan will tell us about how his unwavering commitment to find personal meaning led him to therapy, and to becoming a therapist after years in the business sector. He’ll explain the value an unbiased vantage point offers, and how human-to-human connection is the catalyst necessary to ultimately unleash our true potential for self-discovery and growth.

Chapters

1 - Dan’s transition from Business to Psychology (3:10)

2 - Over-Intellectualism in therapeutic practice (9:11)

3 - How Dan found a greater meaning through Psychology (13:40)

4 - Why Empathy is not value-neutral (22:29)

Links

Dan PerlitzDan’s Academic JournalsEileen Dunn’s Website

The Call of the Soul: Connection as a gateway with Dan Perlitz

The weight of grief descends upon us all at some point in life. It arises from loss, whether of people or parts of ourselves we can no longer recognize. 

When it comes to the unbearableness of grief, our primal instincts may be to swallow the feelings and push forward. But it is only when we allow the feelings of mourning and embrace what loss means that we can unmask the transformative nature it holds.

Through his extensive body of work teaching philosophy, practicing psychoanalysis, and publishing a series of books on the topic, Jonathan Lear has taken all he has come to know and study about grief and used it to analyze his own deeply personal confrontation with the mourning process.

In this episode of the Art of Listening, Jonathan will take us on a historical journey from ancient times to modern day as he discusses his studies that tie together the practices of philosophy and psychoanalysis, the importance of dialogue in thoughtful discovery. We’ll also learn how these studies provided Jonathan with the foundation to form his own philosophical findings on the process of grief and mourning.

Chapters

1 - Jonathan’s international philosophy studies (3:24)

2 - How philosophy led Jonathan to psychoanalysis (6:19)

3 - Where ancient philosophy and modern psychoanalysis intersect (8:59)

4 - The role narratives play in the psychoanalytic setting (14:01)

5 - Grief and mourning, and maintaining hope in human life (25:22)

Links

Jonathan LearJonathan’s BooksThe Art of ListeningEileendunnpsyd.com

Grief as a Catalyst: The Philosophical Dimensions of Mourning with Jonathan Lear

Knowing others is a fundamental part of our human experience... But it is also an impossible task. And while empathy brings us closer to understanding this ‘otherness’, it still maintains a quality of difference –that those we empathize with are inherently distinct from ourselves. 

But perhaps there is a space within our minds where we can understand each other simply as we are, or once were, before we shaped our own journeys – as equals, as solely human. This place, where all humanity is shared, is what Koichi Togashi refers to as 'The Psychoanalytic Zero'. 

In this episode of The Art of Listening, Koichi recalls his journey into the field of Psychoanalysis. He tells us how he learned to balance Eastern and Western perspectives between Japan, his native country, and New York, his adopted city. Koichi also describes how his own quest for acceptance and understanding fueled his need to create his own theory. Together, we learn how the ‘Psychoanalytic Zero’ considers the complexities of division and difference while uncovering the underlying threads that bind us all together in the tapestry of the universe.

Chapters

1 - Finding balance between Eastern and Western practices (4:07)
2 - The relationship between trauma, empathy and the Psychoanalytic Zero (13:35)
3 - In practice: the Psychoanalytic Zero as a philosophy (18:30)
4 - Difference in practice and approaches to trauma in Japan (22:22)
5 - Makoto: the potential of letting go (28:25)

Links

Koichi TogashiKoichi’s BooksEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’

I Could Be You, You Could Be Me: Embracing Our Shared Humanity with Koichi Togashi

What does it mean to truly know who you are? How do you represent you to you? As we navigate our lives, we find ourselves constructing an identity through expression; assembling a mosaic of behaviors, interests, and beliefs. These characteristics, Johanna Arenaza refers to as 'body, heart and soul.’ 

Johanna is a practicing psychoanalyst, an award-winning and internationally competitive dancer. Between her home country of Spain and her adopted home in the US, she has developed her psychoanalytic practice while pursuing her own journey of self-discovery. 

In this episode of The Art of Listening, Johanna shares how an early passion for the art of dance led her into a cycle of burnout, questioning her sense of self. After pivoting and training as a Psychoanalyst, Johanna found a new facet of her identity where she could exercise her intelligence and mental resilience. But with each new discovery, Johanna felt unrest in the separateness of all the parts of herself, yearning for a sense of unity. 

With Johanna today, we uncover how expression can lead us to believe that we are firmly represented; and that this newfound identity can be as restrictive as it is liberating. Through her lifelong journey, Johanna will show us that a true sense of who we are comes from accepting our shifting nature. Walking us through what it means to connect with others, and with ourselves, she reveals that cultivating self-reflection and awareness will land us to a sense of true harmony.

So join us in discussion with Johanna Arenaza, as we explore what it means to listen in, and speak our inner truths with body, mind, heart, and soul.

Chapters

1 - Dance as an instrument for communication and bodily connection (4:00)

2 - Dance burnout, and exploring intellectual agility through Psychology (7:41)

3 - Silence as a form of communication (13:14)

4 - Introspective listening and reflection through meditation (23:23)

5 - How Johanna found self-fulfillment through mental, physical, and spiritual harmony (29:06)

Links

Johanna ArenazaEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’

Between Body, Mind, Heart & Soul: Expressing and Connecting with Johanna Arenaza

We are wishing all Art of Listening listeners a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year as we return with more new episodes in 2024. Stay tuned!

Holiday Greeting

Among the myriad of beginnings, endings, losses and changes that punctuate our lifetimes, few are as challenging as the act of bidding farewell to a long and rewarding career. Over the years, substantial time, labor, and heartfelt devotion are invested, forging identities and finding purpose. So when the familiarity, the comforting sense of routine, and the deep relationships we have nurtured come to an end, we can experience emotions reminiscent of grief and loss. 

But the end of a career also signifies the dawning of a new chapter, brimming with possibilities to explore untapped passions or embark on new adventures. For analysts, the transition to retirement entails discovering who they are once they have left the analyst's chair. And for Marti Peck, it was a true opportunity for reinvention. Marti began her journey in the field at the tender age of 18, commencing an illustrious career that would span over 40 years, including 30 years in private practice. Recently, Marti gracefully said her final goodbyes and retired from a distinguished career in psychoanalysis.

In this episode of The Art of Listening, Marti walks us through the thoughts and feelings that accompany this profound life transition. Marti shares her wisdom on the intricate and profound relationship that therapists develop with their patients; she explores the challenges of releasing responsibility and connections. She depicts her own journey of introspection, emphasizing the vital importance of listening to oneself, discerning limitations, and recognizing individual capabilities.

Join us as we discuss Marti's life long career, and explore how she continues to harness her psychoanalytic wisdom even in retirement, as the practice never truly ends.

Chapters

1 - How Marti approached her retirement, and the emotions that follow change

2 - The responsibility therapists feel for their patients

3 - Marti’s life after retirement, and the separation of personal and professional identity

4 - Viewing retirement as a new beginning

Links

Marti PeckMarti Peck on LinkedInMarti’s Book ‘So Hard to Die’Eileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’

Endings and Beginnings: Retirement as Reinvention with Marti Peck

If you tune into this podcast every week, you know that we often start our episodes with a moment of reflection. We speak about identity, self-expression, faith, understanding, and deep moments of existential questioning. 

This moment of connection is what the Art of Listening is all about. It's a collection of voices dedicated to depth talk therapy and understanding, and it will be complete in a handful of episodes. In the spirit of that, this week I would like to connect with you, listeners, to hear what you think of this podcast.

What aspects of this project stay with you, week after week? What doesn’t resonate, sometimes? What do you want more of? And as we draw this collection to a close, do you have a wish for where we should take this podcast next?

If you feel like sharing your experiences, your thoughts, or even personal stories related to this podcast, you can leave us a review, or reach out to me via email, at dreileen@eileendunnpsyd.com

Learning from your perspective is another way to celebrate the power of listening. Together, let's create even more fruitful conversations. 

Links

Eileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’

A Moment of Reflection: Learning from your Listening Experience

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