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BBC Radio 4


Inside the world of crisis managers and spin doctors as David Yelland and Simon Lewis watch the week's biggest PR disasters unfold. In each episode our hosts go behind the scenes of the latest news stories and find out how, where and when it all began to hit the fan. 

When It Hits The Fan is hosted by two of the most influential and experienced people in the game; David Yelland is the former editor of the Sun and alongside him is Simon Lewis, former trouble-shooter for the Queen and Gordon Brown, as well as for major corporations like the Nat West, Vodafone and British Gas. Together they bring decades of experience in both creating and managing crises. They'll share all they know about what's keeping those big stories in and out of the news.


When It Hits the Fan

This episode will change your life. Seriously.

It's a big claim and carries an enormous risk of over-promising.

Welcome to the latest episode in our mini-series on the Golden Rules of PR. This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis look at the risks of rolling the pitch - of laying the PR groundwork - for a forthcoming announcement.

As the Chancellor Rachel Reeves found out in the run up to the Budget, trying to manage expectations can seriously backfire. But we all do it - we try to soften people up ahead of delivering some tricky news. David and Simon explain why there are very sensible reasons for doing this.

The problem is - if you say what's going to happen and people react badly - how do you change your plans without being accused of making a U-turn?

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

1. Rolling the Pitch

It may be the season to be jolly but there's not a lot of good cheer going around at the moment. With so much unrelentingly bleak news, how do you persuade anyone that not everything's as bad as it seems? 

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis look at the power of optimism. It's not just a useful PR tool, it's vital. When optimism is authentic, it can inspire and be incredibly infectious. The trouble is, it can also feel totally out of step with people's own experiences.

That's why it's such a tricky PR balancing act. You want to take people with you but not make them think you're living in a dream world.

When people are crying out for good news, David and Simon look at why the phrase 'positive spin' is almost always used in a derogatory way - even though the very last thing you want is a pessimistic PR team.

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, who's on the list and who isn't? The PR minefield that is Christmas cards. 

David and Simon discuss whether the festive staple is still a good way of judging where you sit in the business and social firmament.

Should you send cards to all your contacts, should they each get a personalised message - and if someone suddenly stops sending one to you, what are you supposed to think? And given the cost of postage - how do you decide who is really worth the price of a stamp?

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: William Miller
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

Why Optimism is a PR Superpower

It's panto season and panto villains don't come much bigger than Simon Cowell.

The music mogul's made a career and fortune playing the Bad Guy on TV talent shows. But is there more to him - and crucially, is it good PR for him to show a different side?

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis wade through the blizzard of publicity created ahead of Simon Cowell's latest show - to piece together a PR jigsaw that hints at his attempts to stay relevant while also offering glimpses into his world that he may not have intended.

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, what happens when a CEO goes missing in action? The good people of Tunbridge Wells are once again disgusted - following a drinking water crisis in the spa town. And their mood has not been helped by the boss of South Eastern Water, David Hinton, refusing to give any interviews. 

If the buck stops with you, do you have a duty to show your face in public - or can there be very good reasons for staying invisible when everything is going wrong?

Also, what is going on at HSBC? There's a distinct whiff of chaos around the search for a new CEO. George Osborne had been heavily touted, only for the job to be given to a 76-year-old internal candidate who, by all accounts, might not be hanging around for long. Given it's one of the most prestigious roles in global finance, where is the succession planning? And what does all this confusion at the top mean for the bank's reputation?

Producer: Duncan MIddleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter

Music by Eclectic Sounds.
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4.

Simon Cowell's PR: Judged!

It's not easy winning a PR fight when you're up against three octogenarian nuns whose story has become a global smash.

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis look at the case of Sister Bernadette, Sister Regina and Sister Rita. They ran away from the care home they'd been sent to and broke back into the Austrian convent where they'd lived for more than 60 years. In the process, they've gained huge support on social media.

Now, they've been told they can stay at the convent - so long as they stop posting online. The nuns and their hundreds of thousands of followers aren't happy.

David and Simon explain why harnessing authentic, joyful, grassroots support is the PR holy grail - and why it's almost impossible to counter. It almost doesn't matter what the Church authorities say or do. The facts are no longer important if people have already decided who is in the right and wrong. 

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, there's the distinct whiff of crisis at Campbell's. Its CEO has had to go on the record to insist the chicken used in its soups is "not made with a 3D printer". This follows a secret recording of a senior member of staff, who seemingly said the opposite during a long rant about the company. 

The claim is clearly nonsense so David and Simon look at whether Campbell's reaction is proportionate - or whether we now live in a world where a company has to respond, no matter how ludicrous a claim seems.

Keeping your customers happy is of course vital in any business. Which brings us to Turkish Airlines. It's facing accusations of poor treatment after the former BBC correspondent, Mark Mardell, was told he wasn't allowed to board a flight because of his Parkinson's. David and Simon examine the response - or lack of - from Turkish Airlines and explain why getting ahead of a PR problem is absolutely crucial.

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

Nuns on the Run

Imagine being able to read the private emails sent between some of the most powerful people on the planet. 

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis do exactly that. The release of thousands of pages from the so-called Epstein files shows the ways in which the elite communicate with each other. The exchanges reveal what one New York Times columnist describes as the 'nomadic bat signals' the rich send the rich. Epstein's criminality and cruelty are already crystal clear - but the legacy of these emails tells us so much more about the times we're living in.

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, a scandal threatening the reputation of a very British institution. The former CEO of Lloyd's of London, John Neal, has had his multi-million pound job offer with AIG rescinded - over claims of a workplace affair. Did Lloyd's do enough to investigate the matter - and does the case undo all the positive PR Lloyd's has received for trying to reform behaviour within the company?

Also, insert your own joke about weird handshakes. The Freemasons are making a fresh attempt to become more transparent. The 600 meeting halls of the Grand Lodge of Scotland are throwing open their doors to public guided tours. It's all part of an effort to be more 'inclusive' and 'engaging'. But what if secrecy is part of your selling point? If you lose the mystique, what have you got left?

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

Power, PR and the 'Epstein Class'

When a top job becomes available, there very soon follows a list of potential 'runners and riders'. But how do you get your name on it? And how do you get your name off it?

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis reveal the PR secrets of The List. Whether it's the BBC, HSBC or Apple, there are suddenly lots of big names being touted around for some very serious jobs.

But there are PR traps along the way. Being seen as the frontrunner doesn't always end well - and if you didn't put your name forward, who did and what are they playing at?

And when it comes to these lists, there is sometimes great value in not appearing on them at all.

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds - Penguin PR. David and Simon look at the campaign to get 15 Gentoo penguins released from London Aquarium. The owner, Merlin Entertainments, has pledged to listen to 'constructive ideas' about how best to care for the animals. But has the company already lost the argument?

Also, when someone says AI will "evolve and transition certain jobs", what do they really mean? Especially when that someone is the head of Google's parent firm, Alphabet. 

Sundar Pichai sits at the top of company valued at more than $3tn - so when he says he's worried about the AI bubble bursting and the effect it'll have on every company, it's probably worth paying close attention to his choice of words.

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

The Secrets of the List: Putting Yourself in the Frame for a Top Job.

"They make really stupid basic mistakes and they are hopeless at PR."

If you're a podcast about PR, then that quote - made about the BBC this week - is a good place to start when assessing the reputation of the Corporation. 

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis examine the crisis engulfing the BBC. One which began with a leaked memo, resulted in two huge resignations and now has President Trump threatening to sue for $1bn.

How did we get here and did the BBC make some cardinal PR mistakes along the way?

Maybe the BBC could do with putting in a call to the man dubbed 'Drastic Dave'. On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, David and Simon look at the risks and rewards of parachuting a 'superstar CEO' into a struggling company. In this case, it's Dave Lewis - who's now tasked with turning round drinks business Diageo. The company has seen an immediate bounce in its value, but how long can that PR honeymoon period last?

And what happens if you need to get hold of your CEO - superstar or otherwise - but they're not picking up? The answer, according to the boss of Heathrow, is to give them an extra loud phone. 

Thomas Woldbye says that's what he's now got - after sleeping through several alerts when the airport was hit by a huge power failure back in March. David and Simon recall moments from their own careers when they had to decide if, when and how to wake the boss. 

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

Is the BBC 'hopeless at PR'?

It was barely a fortnight - but in that time everything seemed to change.

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis look at the dramatic way Buckingham Palace responded to the growing crisis over the then-Prince Andrew. Going from an initial statement that seemed - to many - to get almost everything wrong to a second statement that went further than almost anyone was expecting.

Behind-the-scenes, just what was going on for the Royal comms team? What powers were at play, how was there such a gulf between the two statements and just how hard is it to react quickly when working for an institution as unwieldy as the Royal Family?

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, we're on patrol with the 'Pleasure Police'. Well, that's who the gambling industry has in its sights as it fights to stop the sector being hit with higher taxes. But David and Simon think it's a particularly old fashioned type of PR campaign - complete with backing from The Sun and a slogan to Save Our Bets. With the Budget looming large, they examine whether these campaigns ever work.

And what price loyalty? John Lewis is making a fresh attempt to lure members into its flagship store - with the promise of free fizz, nibbles and arm massages. But beyond the pampering, how hard is it for brands and businesses to secure loyalty - and what are the reputational risks if you have to withdraw or adapt those perks?

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

Two Weeks that Shook the Palace

As PR moves go, it would surely have earned a '10 from Len'.

But what about the BBC's own communications team, who were seemingly as surprised as everyone else when Tess Daly and Claudia Winkleman announced they were leaving Strictly Come Dancing?

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis look at what happens when a PR team is left blindsided by events. And while not strictly a double act, Tess and Claud are a Strictly double act - so it's a chance to discuss the challenges of how to bow out when your reputation is, at least in part, tied up with someone else.

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, the Prince Andrew scandal still looms large. The clamour for some kind of decision on his living arrangements is only growing. As yet, there's nothing official. But there does seem to be an awful lot of briefing behind-the-scenes. David and Simon look at how this lack of formal information is playing out for both the King and Prince William.

And how many times have we heard there's a problem at head office? That seems to be the case at Waitrose. The supermarket chain has reversed its decision not to offer paid work to an autistic man after initially saying he had to stop stacking shelves at the store where he had volunteered for four years. 

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

The Strictly Bombshell

No more Duke of York, no more Order of the Garter. But he is still Prince Andrew. And he is still the King's brother.

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis look at how Buckingham Palace is trying to distance the Royal Family from the constant slew of damaging headlines. But many questions remain about the way it's being handled.

Why was Prince Andrew allowed to sound like he was giving up his titles voluntarily, in a statement that may be argued to show little contrition, focussing instead on his innocence? If it was a decision based on short-term PR pain, has it backfired spectacularly?

Buckingham Palace has asked the public to look at the King's Royal work rather than the scandals involving his brother. But if you're having to ask, have you already lost the argument?

Producer: Duncan Middleton
Editor: Sarah Teasdale
Executive Producer: Eve Streeter
Music by Eclectic Sounds
A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4

1. Rolling the Pitch

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