Matt sits down with John Pfaff, professor and author of Locked In, an influential and important 2017 book about mass incarceration in America. The two discuss some common misconceptions about America's prison population, three different meanings of the term "broken windows," and what might be the true cause of the current trending rise in violent crime across the nation. Resources: Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration and How to Achieve Real Reform by John Pfaff (2017; Basic Books) Ghettoside: A True Story of Murder in America by Jill Levoy (2015; One World) "Crime and Punishment: An Economic Approach" by Gary S. Becker (Journal of Political Economy v. 76 no. 2, Mar.-Apr. 1968) Uneasy Peace: The Great Crime Decline, the Renewal of City Life, and the Next War on Violence by Patrick Sharkey (2019; W.W. Norton) The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs (1961) "Broken Windows: The police and neighborhood safety" by George L. Kelling and James Q. Wilson (March 1982; The Atlantic)

Guest: John Pfaff (@JohnFPfaff), author; professor, Fordham Law School Host: Matt Yglesias (@mattyglesias), Slowboring.com Credits: Erikk Geannikis, Editor and Producer

As the Biden administration gears up, we'll help you understand this unprecedented burst of policymaking. Sign up for The Weeds newsletter each Friday: vox.com/weeds-newsletter.

The Weeds is a Vox Media Podcast Network production. Want to support The Weeds? Please consider making a contribution to Vox: bit.ly/givepodcasts

About Vox Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Follow Us: Vox.com Facebook group: The Weeds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices