It’s been an explosive week of evidence at the Covid inquiry. Government by WhatsApp and chaotic scenes at Downing Street.

Amol and Nick discuss how badly the UK handled Covid and whether a different approach would have fundamentally altered the response and outcomes of the pandemic.

Joining them in The Today Podcast studio is Louise Casey, who spent nearly 20 years in the civil service and who has run a range of inquiries, . She tells Amol and Nick what she made of her time working with the former Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

And Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter, emeritus professor of statistics at Cambridge University, takes us through the data. Just how badly did Britain really do?

Episodes of The Today Podcast land every Thursday and watch out for bonus episodes. Subscribe on BBC Sounds to get Amol and Nick's take on the biggest stories of the week, with insights from behind the scenes at the UK's most influential radio news programme.

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The Today Podcast is hosted by Amol Rajan and Nick Robinson, both presenters of BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, the UK’s most influential radio news programme. Amol was the BBC’s media editor for six years and is the former editor of the Independent, he’s also the current presenter of University Challenge. Nick has presented the Today programme since 2015, he was the BBC’s political editor for ten years before that and also previously worked as ITV’s political editor.

The producers are Tom Smithard and Stephanie Mitcalf. The editors are Jonathan Aspinwall and Louisa Lewis. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths. Studio direction from Mike Regaard.

Note: This audio has been edited to include a fuller answer.