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The Lawfare Institute

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfaremedia.org.

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The Lawfare Podcast

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Tyler McBrien, Michael Feinberg, and Ariane Tabatabai to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including:

 • “Between Iraq and a Hard Place.” Iran is engaged in perhaps its most serious bout of domestic unrest in a decade, spurred on by a failing economy and the seeming political weakness of the regime after its devastating military conflict with Israel and the United States this past summer. But the regime has struck back viciously, cutting off global media and communications access even as it has engaged in a vicious and violent campaign of repression that may have already led to as many as between 2,000 and 12,000 fatalities. That has led, among other things, to threats from the Trump administration that it may intervene militarily against the regime. What should we be making of this development? What does it mean for the future of Iran, and what role might the United States play in that future?
 • “A Slippery Slope.” ICE’s increasingly provocative immigration enforcement actions came to a violent head last week in Minneapolis, when ICE agent Jonathan Ross shot and killed driver and possible protest participant Renee Good. While the White House has sought to frame Good as a “domestic terrorist” who threatened Ross, videos of the incident instead suggest that her conduct came nowhere close to the standard normally required for the use of lethal force. The FBI is now reportedly investigating Good’s widow for ties to activist groups, an effort that led several career federal prosecutors to quit this week. How effective are the administration’s attempts to shape the truth likely to prove? 
 • “Green with Envy.” Diplomatic representatives from Denmark and Greenland are meeting with senior administration officials as we record to discuss a way forward on Greenland, the self-governing and all-but-independent Danish territory that President Trump has openly coveted since returning to office, up to and including the threat of military force to acquire it. How serious should the world take these threats? Where is the competition over Greenland likely to lead?

In object lessons, Tyler is setting the mood with a recommendation of Way Dynamic’s album “Massive Shoe.” Mike is boosting our moods with a preview of “One Movie After Another,” a retrospective of Paul Thomas Anderson films, coming soon to the AFI Silver Theatre in Silver Spring. Scott is setting some mood lighting with his Xenomorph-like bedtime reading light from Glocusent. And Ari is getting moody with a revisit of Pedro Almodóvar’s “Pain and Glory.”

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Rational Security: The “Scare Them When They’re Young” Edition

On today's episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Lawfare Contributing Editor Professor Ashley Deeks of the University of Virginia School of Law and Professor Kristen Eichensehr of Harvard Law School to discuss their recent article entitled, "Federalism and the New National Security," recently published in the Harvard Law Review.

Together, they discuss the new ways that states are engaging in national security policy (which Deeks and Eichensehr call "entrepreneurial federalism"), the costs and benefits of such practices, and strategies for how the states and the various branches of the federal government should engage with them.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: Entrepreneurial Federalism and the New National Security, with Ashley Deeks and Kristen Eichensehr

On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with John Dinkelman, president of the American Foreign Service Association (AFSA), to discuss his organization’s latest report, entitled, “At the Breaking Point: The State of the U.S. Foreign Service in 2025.” They talk about why AFSA undertook such a project after the federal government workforce survey was canceled earlier in the year, the report’s major findings, and why a robust foreign service is vital to U.S. national security.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: The U.S. Foreign Service at a ‘Breaking Point,’ with John Dinkelman

Iran is once again witnessing large-scale protests, on which the regime is cracking down through mass arrests and deadly force. President Trump has stated that the United States would come to the rescue of Iranians if the regime continues to kill protestors. Meanwhile, Tehran continues to reconstitute its nuclear program, which was damaged during the 12-day war over the summer. President Trump has threatened to eliminate Iran’s nuclear and missile programs if Tehran does not stop rebuilding its capabilities. Iran’s regional standing remains diminished, though its relationships with Russia and China continue even as tensions create limits to cooperation. 

On today’s episode, Lawfare Public Service Fellow Ariane Tabatabai sits down with Richard Nephew, Senior Research Scholar at the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University and former Deputy Special Envoy for Iran, to discuss the latest developments in Iran, take stock of U.S. policy toward Iran during President Trump’s first year back in office, and offer indicators for what to expect next.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: The Latest in Iran, with Richard Nephew

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff Michael Feinberg and Eric Columbus to discuss the shooting by an ICE agent in Minnesota, what the Maduro indictment means for the Alien Enemies Act cases, the disqualification of the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of New York, and moreYou can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Jan. 9

From June 18, 2024: On June 2, Mexico held one of the largest elections in its history and the electorate voted in the country's first women, and Jewish, president, Claudia Sheinbaum. Sheinbaum was endorsed by outgoing President Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), who critics charge as pushing a series of anti-democratic policies including a substantial judicial overhaul. 

To discuss this historic election and what President-elect Claudia Sheinbaum may do in office, Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey sat down with former United States Ambassador Roberta Jacobson. They discussed the issues voters were concerned about, political violence by cartels plaguing the country, and whether Sheinbaum will follow AMLO's trajectory as a populist or chart her own path. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Archive: Former Ambassador Roberta Jacobson on the Mexico Presidential Election

From February 15, 2023: The Jan. 6 committee’s final report on the insurrection is over 800 pages, including the footnotes. But there’s still new information coming out about the committee’s findings and its work.

Last week, we brought you an interview with Dean Jackson, one of the staffers who worked on the Jan. 6 committee’s investigation into the role of social media in the insurrection. Today, we’re featuring a conversation with Jacob Glick, who served as investigative counsel on the committee and is currently a policy counsel at Georgetown’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection. His work in the Jan. 6 investigation focused on social media and far-right extremism. Lawfare senior editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Jacob about what the investigation showed him about the forces that led to Jan. 6, how he understands the threat still posed by extremism, and what it was like interviewing Twitter whistleblowers and members of far-right groups who stormed the Capitol.

You can read Jacob’s essay with Mary McCord on countering extremism here in Just Security and listen to an interview with Jacob and his Jan. 6 committee colleagues here at Tech Policy Press.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Archive: A Jan. 6 Committee Staffer on Far-Right Extremism

Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower speaks with fellow Senior Editors Eric Columbus and Mike Feinberg about the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good by an ICE officer in Minneapolis. The discussion covers what is currently known about the incident and the conflicting accounts offered by DHS and the White House in contrast with bystander video. The panel also discusses DHS use-of-force policies, the federal government’s reported investigation of the shooting, and the legal framework governing state prosecutions of federal officers.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: The Legal Fallout After a Fatal ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

Connecticut State Senator James Maroney and Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, for a look back at a wild year in AI policy.

Neil provides his expert analysis of all that did (and did not) happen at the federal level. Senator Maroney then examines what transpired across the states. The four then offer their predictions for what seems likely to be an even busier 2026. 

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Scaling Laws: A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney and Neil Chilson

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Natalie Orpett, and Molly Roberts for a special deep-dive into the intervention in Venezuela, including:

 • “A Hop, Skip, and Jump Across the Rubicon.” This past weekend, the Trump administration took the step that Trump has been threatening for months: he deployed special operations to capture Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro and bring him to the United States for criminal prosecution. The targeted operation was only hours long and resulted in no American fatalities, though more than 70 people in Venezuela were reportedly killed. The Trump administration has described it as a “law enforcement” operation. But what was it really? And where did he get the authority to do it?
 • “A Truly Extraordinary Rendition.” By Monday, Maduro and his wife were in New York being arraigned on an array of drug- and weapons-related conspiracy charges. But prosecuting a head of state—albeit one not recognized by the United States—presents certain unique challenges. How should we expect the criminal case to proceed? 
 • “Running in Place.” President Trump has asserted that he and his advisers are now going to “run” Venezuela. But he’s left Maduro’s deputy, Delcy Rodríguez, in place, in lieu of the opposition movement the United States and many other countries have recognized as Venezuela’s legitimate government. Trump and his advisers seem intent on dictating terms to Venezuela through the “leverage” provided them by the ongoing quarantine over Venezuela’s oil, and potentially the threat of additional military action. But can this light-touch strategy succeed? 

In object lessons, (notably Chicagoan) Natalie delights in her long-standing admiration of The New Yorker with Netflix’s documentary “The New Yorker at 100.” Molly approaches Trump’s takeover of D.C. golf courses with a pitch for Knotty by Nature’s wooden putters. Scott honors the 5th anniversary of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol with a recommendation of Ellie Silverman’s moving profile of Nathan Tate in the Washington Post. And Ben honors the same anniversary with both a revisiting of Lawfare's narrative podcast series The Aftermath, and, relatedly, a surprise interview by Holly Berkley Fletcher with one of the attack’s most infamous perpetrators. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Rational Security: The “Caracas Like a Hurricane” Special Venezuela Edition

NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, was founded in 1949 and quickly became the main way that the United States guaranteed the security of Western Europe, especially against possible invasion by the Soviet Union. But with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the end of the Cold War, NATO has faced a series of identity crises. Should it continue to exist in its current form or change? If it should change, should it shrink or expand? Should it continue focusing on European security or embrace global peacekeeping? What should its relationship with Russia be? And perhaps most importantly, should America continue to serve as the de facto head of NATO and the main guarantor of European security? Last week's NATO summit offers an opportunity to revisit all of these cases.

To discuss it all, Alan Rozenshtein spoke with two experts on U.S. foreign policy: Stephen Wertheim, a historian and director of the Grand Strategy Program at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, and Sara Moller, an assistant professor in international security at Seton Hall University. To frame the conversation, they focused on Stephen's recent essay in the New York Times, provocatively titled, "Sorry, Liberals. But You Really Shouldn't Love NATO."

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Stephen Wertheim and Sara Moller on the Past, Present and Future of NATO

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