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The Lawfare Institute

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfareblog.com.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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The Lawfare Podcast

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes and Natalie Orpett, and Professor of Law at Cardozo Law School Rebecca Ingber, to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

 • “Uninvited Aerial Vehicles.” The Polish government is claiming that nineteen armed Russian UAVs penetrated its airspace last night. While Russians are suggesting no attack was intended, Poland has invoked Article IV of the NATO Treaty and worked with allied NATO aircraft to shoot the drones down. What might be happening here? And does it mean we’re on our way to World War III as some are suggesting?
 • “Bibi is a Killer Negotiator. No, Wait—Switch That.” Within days of the Trump administration tabling another ceasefire proposal—and, by some accounts, making progress in pressuring Hamas to accept it—Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu authorized a set of missile strikes that killed the leaders of Hamas’s political wing in nearby Qatar. It’s the first such move in a Gulf country, many of which have moved towards normalization with Israel through the Trump-backed Abraham Accords. What explains Israel’s actions? And what do they portend for the conflict in Gaza and the region as a whole?
 • “Cruise Control.” A week has passed since the Trump administration took the controversial step of targeting a boat alleged to be smuggling narcotics at the direction of the Venezuelan criminal organization Tren de Aragua with lethal force. The Trump administration hasn’t repeated the move, but it’s said it intends to. And U.S. military assets—including strategic assets whose use in a counter-narcotics military campaign is far from clear—have continued to build up in the region, leading some to believe that a broader campaign against Venezuela itself may yet be in the offing. How likely is a broader campaign? And could its implications be, legally and politically? 

In Object Lessons, Ben is cheering on a cadre of former FBI agents suing Kash Patel over their firings, and in the process, sings the praises of an accidental hero—the “Drizz.” Natalie, meanwhile, gets très littéraire with “The Elegance of the Hedgehog,” by Muriel Barbery—a book so French that almost nothing happens. Scott rang in his 8th wedding anniversary the traditional way: getting drunk in the basement and falling in love all over again—with The Paper. And Bec wonders just how much coin it’s going to take to change the Department of Defense to the Department of War.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Rational Security: The “Trump Ruined My Dinner” Edition

Twenty-four years ago today, two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in New York, another hit the Pentagon, and another went down in a field in Pennsylvania. It was the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil in American history. But the men the United States accuses of perpetrating the attacks haven't been held accountable. In fact, they haven't even gone to trial.

For today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett talks with John Ryan, a journalist at Lawdragon and author of the book, “America's Trial: Torture and the 9/11 Case on Guantanamo Bay,” to help explain why. They talk about John's 10 years covering the 9/11 case, why it's so hard to report from Guantanamo, why the case has been bogged down in pretrial proceedings for over a decade, and what torture has to do with it all. 

Note: Orpett referred to Lawfare's recent coverage of the 9/11 case, including pieces about Secretary Austin's withdrawal, the military commission's ruling upholding the pleas, the D.C. Circuit's reversal, and the recent suppression ruling in the Ammar al Baluchi case.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: The 9/11 Case in Guantanamo

For today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack sit down with Adam Chan, the first National Security Counsel at the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), to discuss the FCC’s increasingly important role in U.S. national security policy.

Together they discuss the origins of the FCC’s role in national security, how and why it has grown in an era of major power competition, and several of the initiatives they currently have underway. 

Since recording, the FCC has taken further action on one such issue: the problem of “bad labs.” You can read their press release here.

This episode is part of the special “The Regulators” podcast series, which features conversations with senior officials working at the intersection of national security and the economy.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: Adam Chan on the FCC’s Growing Role in National Security

For today’s episode, Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta interviews Joan Barata, Visiting Professor at the Catholic University of Porto; Laís Martins, journalist at The Intercept Brazil and Fellow at Tech Policy Press; and James Görgen, adviser to Brazil’s Ministry of Development, Industry, Trade, and Services, to discuss the dramatic intersection of tech policy and geopolitical pressure unfolding in Brazil. They discuss the trial of former President Jair Bolsonaro for his role in the January 8 insurrection, the legal battles surrounding social media regulation and platform liability, the influence of Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, and the controversy sparked by U.S. sanctions and tariffs. Together, they examine whether the intersection of tech and geopolitics in Brazil is an outlier—or a preview of what’s coming for democracies worldwide.

Read more on this topic from this episode’s guests:

 • “
Trump’s Attack on Brazil’s Sovereignty May Backfire on US Tech Firms • ,” by Laís Martins
 • “
Trump’s New Brazil Tariffs Aren’t About Trade, and They’re Not About Free Speech • ,” by Laís Martins
 • “
Brazil’s Supreme Court Overturns Platform Liability Rules—Now Comes the Challenge of What’s Next • ,” by Laís Martins
 • "
Brazil Has a Bridge to Defending the Internet • ," by James Görgen
 • "
O Vale do Silício contra a parede? • " by James Görgen
 • "
O sequestro da soberania digital • ," by James Görgen
 • "
Felca, Trump e fatiamentos digitais • ," by James Görgen
 • “
Regulating Online Platforms Beyond the Marco Civil in Brazil: The Controversial ‘Fake News Bill, • ’”by Joan Barata
 • “
JOTA: Dilemmas of Platform Regulation in Brazil • ,” by Joan Barata

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: Sanctions, Speech, and Sovereignty in Brazil

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Scott Anderson, Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss, and the Brennan Center's Katherine Yon Ebright to discuss the ongoing activation of National Guard in the District of Columbia, the Trump Administration's lethal strike in the Caribbean, and Harvard University's win over its funding fight in federal court. You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Sep 5

From March 28, 2024: One of the gravest threats to U.S. national security today—and also one of the newest—is the risk of cyberattacks. They come in many forms, and they can incapacitate companies, institutions, and even the government. 

To better understand these threats—and how the government is responding to them­—Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett and Lawfare Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack sat down with Brett Leatherman, Deputy Assistant Director for Cyber Operations at the FBI. They discussed the FBI's recent operations, threats from both state actors and criminal gangs, and the role of the private sector in U.S. cybersecurity.

This is the latest episode in our special series, “The Regulators,” co-sponsored with Morrison Foerster, in which we talk with senior government officials working at the front lines of U.S. national security policy.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Archive: How the FBI is Combating Cyberattacks, with Brett Leatherman

From August 22, 2024: Anastasiia Lapatina is a Kyiv-based Ukraine Fellow at Lawfare. Leopoldo Lopez is a Venezuelan opposition leader living in exile in Madrid, after escaping prison for leading protests against Nicolás Maduro in 2014. Lapatina and Lopez discuss the results of Venezuela’s recent presidential election, ties between Venezuela’s autocrat Nicolás Maduro and other dictatorships, and the path forward for Venezuela after the rigged election.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Archive: A Conversation with an Exiled Venezuelan Opposition Leader

In a live conversation on Sept. 4, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Professor of Law at Cardozo Law School Rebecca Ingber to discuss the U.S. strike on an alleged “drug boat” traveling from Venezuela, the president’s authority to use lethal force outside of war, and more.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: U.S. Military Conducts Lethal Strike on Venezuelan ‘Drug Boat’

Anu Bradford, Professor at Columbia Law School, and Kate Klonick, Senior Editor at Lawfare and Associate Professor at St. John's University School of Law, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to assess the ongoing, contrasting, and, at times, conflicting regulatory approaches to Big Tech being pursued by the EU and U.S. The trio start with an assessment of the EU’s use of the Brussels Effect, coined by Anu, to shape AI development. Next, they explore the U.S.’s increasingly interventionist industrial policy with respect to key sectors, especially tech.

Read more:

 • Anu’s op-ed in 
The New York Times"The Impact of Regulation on Innovation, • " by Philippe Aghion, Antonin Bergeaud, and John Van Reenen
Draghi Report on the Future of European Competitiveness
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Scaling Laws: Contrasting and Conflicting Efforts to Regulate Big Tech: EU v. U.S.

For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviews Mark Cancian, a Senior Adviser with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, to assess the impact and implications of a Chinese blockade of Taiwan. Cancian discusses why China might choose blockade over an outright invasion, how the blockade might affect Taiwan, the risks of escalation, and what the United States and Taiwan must do to make a blockade less likely and less risky. 

For more, take a look at “Lights Out? Wargaming a Chinese Blockade of Taiwan,” a recent CSIS report by Mark F. Cancian, Matthew F. Cancian, and Eric Heginbotham.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: Wargaming a Chinese Blockade of Taiwan

Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sits down with John Speed Meyers, head of Chainguard Labs, and Paul Gibert, a research scientist at Chainguard Labs to talk about the distinct challenges of securing open source software (OSS). They discuss what sorts of harms OSS compromises can lead to, how Log4J opened a political window for action on OSS security, and how the software liability debate affects OSS developers.

Meyers and Gibert authored a Lawfare article questioning the conventional wisdom on how software liability could deal with OSS.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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Lawfare Daily: Securing Open Source Software, with John Speed Meyers and Paul Gibert

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