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The Lawfare Institute

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfareblog.com.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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The Lawfare Podcast

Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare, sits down with Sam Winter-Levy, a Fellow in the Technology and International Affairs Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; Janet Egan, a Senior Fellow with the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security; and Peter Harrell, a Nonresident Fellow at Carnegie and a former Senior Director for International Economics at the White House National Security Council under President Joe Biden.

They discuss the Trump administration’s recent decision to allow U.S. companies Nvidia and AMD to export a range of advanced AI semiconductors to China in exchange for a 15% payment to the U.S. government. They talk about the history of the export control regime targeting China’s access to AI chips, the strategic risks of allowing China to acquire powerful chips like the Nvidia H20, and the potential harm to the international coalition that has worked to restrict China’s access to this technology. They also debate the statutory and constitutional legality of the deal, which appears to function as an export tax, a practice explicitly prohibited by the Constitution.

Mentioned in this episode:

The Financial Times article breaking the news about the Nvidia dealThe Trump Administration’s AI Action Plan
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Scaling Laws: Export Controls: Janet Egan, Sam Winter-Levy, and Peter Harrell on the White House's Semiconductor Decision

This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Anna Bower, Chris Mirasola, and Mykhailo Soldatenko to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

 • “Wings and a Prayer.” The Ukraine conflict has been the subject of intense shuttle diplomacy over the past week, as President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin flew to a meeting in Alaska last Friday, only for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and a cadre of European leaders to fly to Washington, DC, to meet with Trump yesterday at the White House. What do we know about their conversations? And could this be a turning point in the conflict?
 • “Capital Offense.” It’s been more than a week since President Trump chose to make law enforcement in Washington, DC—a city he has derided as “taken over by violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals”—a national priority, by deploying hundreds of National Guard personnel and federal law enforcement officers to the streets and seeking to assert federal control over the police department, in ways that triggered a legal challenge by the city. What is motivating this major policy effort? And where does it seem likely to lead?
 • “The Ep Files: I Want to Believe.” The Trump administration is reportedly installing a new “co-”deputy director at the FBI, in part because of controversy the current incumbent—former right-wing radio host Dan Bongino—has courted relating to the release of the so-called “Epstein Files.” And it’s indicative of the major problems that these files—and the potential that they may say something about President Trump’s relationship with the notorious sex offender for whom they are named—are causing President Trump and his administration. What’s driving this rare point of dissent among the president’s core supporters? And what ramifications could it have for our justice system?

In object lessons, Anna hyped a new Kelce brothers podcast episode that featured some girl that Travis is dating. Chris recommended a crafty parenting hack: taking your kid to Michael’s for some unplugged, creative fun. Scott channeled his inner influencer, telling you where you can find the newest, hippest dog shirts. And Mykhailo brought us back down to Earth with a recommendation of Timothy Snyder’s YouTube series, The Making of Modern Ukraine, for a dive into the context and real causes for the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Rational Security: The “Whole Etsy Store of Horrors” Edition

Adam Chan, National Security Counsel at the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and inaugural Director of the FCC’s new Council on National Security, joins Lawfare’s Justin Sherman to discuss the FCC’s rulemaking on submarine cables and national security. They discuss the FCC’s new submarine cable rules, the role of submarine cables in the U.S. telecommunications supply chain and in the data and AI era, and the national security risks facing submarine cable infrastructure. They also discuss new requirements for submarine cable license applicants to make physical security and cybersecurity certifications, the objective of limiting Chinese influence on U.S.-tied submarine cables, and the future of how the FCC is thinking about threats, responses, and engagement with industry to address them.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Daily: FCC’s New Submarine Cable Rules with Adam Chan

In a live conversation on August 18, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Legal Fellow Mykhailo Soldatenko, Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina, and Carnegie Senior Fellow Eric Ciaramella about President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s meeting in Alaska on Aug. 15, Trump’s meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and other European leaders, in the White House on Aug, 18, and what it all means for the future of the Russo-Ukrainian War.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Daily: The Alaska Summit and Its Fallout

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff, and Lawfare contributor Chris Mirasola to discuss D.C.’s lawsuit challenging the Trump administration’s attempts to assume control of the Metropolitan Police Department, litigation over the freezing of federal funds, the 3-day bench trial in Newsom v. Trump on the federalization of the California National Guard,updates in lawsuits over the president’s immigration policies, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Aug. 15

From July 31, 2024: For this episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow Steven Cook to discuss his new book, “The End of Ambition: America’s Past, Present, and Future in the Middle East.” Together, they examined the United States’ long history in the Middle East, how it successfully (and unsuccessfully) pursued its interests there, and what should come next after the failed transformations of the post-9/11 era. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Archive: The End of U.S. Ambition in the Middle East with Steven Cook

From August 14, 2024: Over the past week, Ukrainian forces have launched a major incursion into Russia proper, occupying 1,000 square kilometers in Kursk Oblast, which borders Ukraine. The operation, which caught both Russia and the United States by surprise, is the first major Ukrainian offensive in more than a year. In this episode, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare's Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace to discuss the operation. What do we know amidst the Ukrainian media blackout? What is Ukraine trying to achieve militarily? How will the Kursk operation affect the other fronts in the ongoing war, in which Russia has been on the offensive? And what are the political implications of Ukraine occupying Russian territory?

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Archive: Ukraine Invades Russia

In this episode of Scaling Laws, Dean Ball, Senior Fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and former Senior Policy Advisor for Artificial Intelligence and Emerging Technology, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, to share an inside perspective of the Trump administration’s AI agenda, with a specific focus on the AI Action Plan. 

The trio also explore Dean’s thoughts on the recently released ChatGPT-5 and the ongoing geopolitical dynamics shaping America’s domestic AI policy.

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Scaling Laws: What's Next in AI Policy (and for Dean Ball)?

This week, a rejuvenated Scott returned from vacation to sit down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Daniel Byman, and Kate Klonick to talk through some of the week’s big national security news, including:

 • “Occupational Hazards.” The Israeli government led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has stated its intent to occupy Gaza City, the last segment of Gaza not under Israeli military control, and displace its civilians to “designated safe areas.” In an apparent response to both domestic and international outrage at the plan, Netanyahu later disavowed any intent to annex Gaza—even as he acknowledged calls to do so from within his coalition—and finally laid out a rough Israeli end-goal for Gaza: namely, a non-Israeli governing entity, led by neither Hamas nor the Palestinian Authority, operating under complete Israeli security control. But will this be enough to assuage these concerns? And what does it tell us about where the Gaza conflict may be headed?
 • “The Rake.” The Trump administration has struck a deal with chip manufacturers NVIDIA and AMD, allowing them to export certain high-end (but not frontier model) chips to Chinese companies engaging in AI research, among other relevant activities, so long as they share 15% of the profits with the government. It’s a move that has both Democrats and Republicans worried about major power competition with China crying foul, and lawyers raising serious doubts as to its legal viability. What appears to be driving this recent about-face? And what does it say about the trajectory of U.S. policy on AI (and China)?
 • “The War on Drugs. But, Like, Actually.” According to the New York Times, President Trump has reportedly signed a secret order authorizing the use of military force against drug cartels his administration has designated as terrorist organizations. Exactly what sort of military action may result is not yet clear, but it already has legal and policy experts raising concerns on a number of different fronts. How big a move is this, and what actions might it yield?

In object lessons, Dan, in learning more about 18th-century rivalries, recommends the game Imperial Struggle. Ben, in cheerful outrage, revealed his plans for 100lbs of blue and yellow marking chalk. Scott, in humble apology, reveled in his new-found love of pizza beans. Kate, in cheerful anticipation, expects a weekend of reverie with 14 pounds of fruit and vegetables.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rational Security: The “Business Casual August” Edition

In their new book, “Command of Commerce: America’s Enduring Economic Power Advantage Over China,” Steve Brooks and Ben Vagle argue that the United States’ economic advantage over China is much larger than is commonly believed. They contend that if the United States were to cut China off from the U.S. economy and from the economies of U.S. allies, China would suffer significantly more than the United States. 

Matt Gluck, Executive Editor at Executive Functions, spoke with Brooks and Vagle about the size and nature of the gap in economic power between the two countries, the importance of U.S. alliances in maintaining economic leverage over China, why decoupling from China now would undermine this leverage, and more. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: Steve Brooks and Ben Vagle on U.S.-China Economic Competition

From September 14, 2023: It’s been another brutal summer with seemingly constant natural disasters precipitated by climate change. The United States and other countries have rightfully begun thinking of climate change as a security issue. But extreme weather is not the only challenge we must contend with. There’s also the problem of climate change’s victims, many of whom are forced to leave their homes. 

Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Erin Sikorsky, Director of the Center for Climate & Security at the Council on Strategic Risks, to talk about this phenomenon, which is often referred to as climate migration. They discussed the scope of the climate migration crisis, its security implications, and how we can try to mitigate the harm.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Archive: Climate Migration and National Security

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