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The Lawfare Institute

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfareblog.com.

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The Lawfare Podcast

From April 13, 2023: A few weeks ago, China made headlines for brokering a deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia to thaw diplomatic relations after seven years of cutting ties and even more years of tense relations. Since then, we've already begun to see some downstream effects of this deal, with significant movement on the war in Yemen and the reopening of Iran's embassy in Saudi Arabia.

This is a story with two major strands—one about the potential effects of a successful normalization between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and another about how China, and not the U.S., seems to have made it happen. To understand what all of this might mean for the region, Lawfare Associate Editor Hyemin Han talked to Lawfare Senior Editor Scott Anderson and CNAS Middle East Security Program Director Jonathan Lord about the contours of the deal, China's involvement in the process, and what to look out for as this deal ripens.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Archive: The Saudi-Iran Deal Featuring China

From August 16, 2023: On July 18, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel unveiled criminal charges against 16 people—the “fake electors” from that state who featured in Trump’s effort to hold onto power in 2020. Just a few weeks later, a special counsel in Michigan announced additional charges related to the 2020 election, this time against three people who allegedly accessed voting machines in the state without authorization. So if you’ve been tracking developments when it comes to accountability for misconduct surrounding the 2020 election, it’s best not to take your eye off Michigan.

To discuss, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic sat down with Clara Hendrickson, a politics reporter at the Detroit Free Press. They talked through the backstory behind these prosecutions and why Michigan became such a hotbed of conspiracy theories and alleged crimes in 2020.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Archive: Explaining the Michigan Fake Electors Prosecution

For today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace and a Lawfare contributing editor, and Ambassador Jeffrey Feltman, the John C. Whitehead Visiting Fellow in International Diplomacy at the Brookings Institution, who previously served as Undersecretary General for Political Affairs at the United Nations as well as the Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, among other senior U.S. diplomatic positions.

They discuss Resolution 2803, which the U.N. Security Council adopted earlier this week to endorse and help implement President Trump’s peace plan for Gaza, including how it conforms and departs from usual international practice, what it says about the political positions of the various parties involved in the peace plan, and how it may (or may not) help contribute to an enduring end to the broader conflict—as well as a possible path to Palestinian self-determination.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: The New U.N. Security Council Resolution on Trump’s Gaza Peace Plan, with Amb. Jeffrey Feltman and Joel Braunold

Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina has written two recent articles for Lawfare on energy and the Ukraine war. The first deals with the ongoing Russian attacks on the Ukrainian civilian power grid—attacks which actually interfered with the recording of this very podcast. The second details an ongoing corruption scandal rocking the Ukrainian political system, emerging from an alleged kickback scheme in the energy sector. Lapatina sits down with Benjamin Wittes to talk about the current power outage affecting her ability to record, the Russian strikes, the Ukrainian strikes against Russia, and the most significant corruption scandal to affect President Volodymyr Zelensky since the dawn of the war.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: All Things Ukrainian Energy with Anastasiia Lapatina

At 4pm ET on Nov. 19, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Molly Roberts, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff to discuss two court hearings that occurred that day. First they discussed the hearing in the prosecution of James Comey. Then they briefly discussed the hearing in J.G.G. v. Trump, over potential contempt proceedings against the government concerning actions taken surrounding the deportation of some El Salvador immigrants to CECOT.

This episode is a part of Lawfare’s new livestream series, Lawfare Live: The Now. Subscribe to Lawfare on Substack or YouTube to receive an alert for future livestreams. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Live: Discussing the Hearings on James Comey’s Prosecution and the Alien Enemies Act

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower, Michael Feinberg, and Roger Parloff to talk through the week’s big domestic news stories, including:

 • “Diving Head First into the Shallow End of the Jury Pool.” A federal magistrate judge has concluded that the government may well have made substantial misrepresentations and other errors before the Grand Jury in the prosecution of former FBI director James Comey, and has ruled that Comey is entitled access to extraordinary discovery to make his case that these errors warrant dismissal, among other possible remedies. What does this ruling—which is now on appeal—mean for the Comey prosecution and for the Trump administration’s other efforts to prosecute the president’s enemies?
 • “The Ep Files: Fight the Future.” Republicans in Congress are hotly divided on the question of the Epstein files. While some Republicans (along with many Democrats) have sought broader disclosures from the Justice Department, among other sources, Speaker Mike Johnson and others have thrown up roadblocks to relevant requests, in part out of apparent concern that they may contain damaging revelations about President Trump. But the White House did an about-face this week, switching to support legislation that would compel disclosure of the investigatory materials—clearing the way for it to move forward. What explains the switch in time? And where might it lead?
 • “Pipe Dreams.” The right wing media outlet The Blaze
 • released a bombshell report last week, indicating that they had identified a law enforcement and intelligence official as the likely perpetrator of the Jan. 6, 2021, attempted pipe bombing of the DNC and RNC headquarters in Washington, D.C.—a longstanding obsession in certain corners of the internet. But its claims were quickly rebuked by senior FBI officials, triggering a round of mutual incrimination and accusation. What does this tell us about the state of the investigation and the broader relationship between the Trump administration, law enforcement officials, and prominent portions of his support base?

In object lessons, Anna revisits an older novel, echoed by some current events: Nora Ephron’s “Heartburn.” Roger revisits the November 13, 2015, terrorist attacks across Paris, commemorating the event’s 10-year anniversary with a recommendation of a video on Le Monde. Scott will be revisiting one of his favorite holiday events in the DC area: the Aimee Mann and Ted Leo Christmas Show. And Mike is revisiting novels of the past, bit by bit, through Edwin Frank’s “Stranger than Fiction: Lives of the Twentieth Century Novel.”

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Rational Security: The “Chicken Fight” Edition

Benjamin Wittes sits down with Emily Hoge, a historian at Clemson University, who has written a pair of pieces for Lawfare recently about Russian mobsters and the war in Ukraine. They’re getting out of prison in exchange for service at the front. Some of them are surviving their service there and returning home by way of reward—and the Russian crime rate is skyrocketing as a result. Is all of this altering the Russian social contract, which promised to make the violence of the 1990s a thing of the past in exchange to submission to Vladimir Putin’s rule?

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: Emily Hoge on Russian Mobsters at the Front

Senior Editor Anna Bower speaks with Lawfare Public Service Fellow Michael Feinberg and Senior Editor Eric Columbus about the extraordinary actions taken by the Justice Department and Congress in response to calls for the release of investigative files related to Jeffrey Epstein. The discussion covers the DOJ’s unusual “review” of the Epstein files, Congress’s oversight role, proposed legislation aimed at compelling the release of these materials, and the department’s newly announced probe into prominent Democrats with alleged ties to Epstein.

Listeners can read Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes’s column on the Epstein files here. Wittes’s writing on “ghost investigations” is available here.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Daily: The Epstein Files and the Politicization of the Justice Department

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Roger Parloff and Eric Columbus and Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss to discuss an update in the Georgia prosecution of President Trump, a hearing on whether Lindsey Halligan was lawfully appointed as U.S. attorney, a district court barring the deployment of National Guard to Portland, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Nov. 14

From August 9, 2024: On today's episode, Lawfare's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri speaks with Senior Privacy Engineer at Netflix and former Army Reserve intelligence officer, Lukas Bundonis. They talked about the relationship between law enforcement and tech companies, what that relationship looks like in the U.S. and other countries, and the different ways in which that communication can be politicized.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

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Lawfare Archive: Big Tech and Law Enforcement, with Lukas Bundonis

The spread of misinformation is one of the biggest challenges facing social media platforms. A standard approach is to label suspicious posts or links so as to warn users that what they're engaging with is not reputable, but warnings, despite their wide use, haven't proven to be particularly successful. So what's a social media platform to do? 

Two Princeton University computer scientists, Ben Kaiser, a PhD student, and Professor Jonathan Mayer, think they've found a better way. Instead of warning users about misinformation, they propose putting roadblocks between users and the misinformation they're tempted to click on. Alan Rozenshtein spoke with Ben and Jonathan about their research and about a piece they and Dr. J. Nathan Matias wrote recently for Lawfare entitled, "Warnings that Work: Combating Misinformation Without Deplatforming." 

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Ben Kaiser and Jonathan Mayer on Fighting Misinformation Online

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