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Nate Hagens

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens explores money, energy, economy, and the environment with world experts and leaders to understand how everything fits together, and where we go from here.

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens

To best understand this episode, please watch this ~2 minute video on the biotic pump.
 
 
 
It’s widely known that Earth’s forests provide home to countless numbers of species, act as a vast sink for carbon, and provide much of the food, materials, and clean water on which our societies rely. But emerging science shows us that forests may play another critical role: making rain. This theory, called the biotic pump theory, hypothesizes that instead of being passive recipients of rain, forests may actively create the conditions for precipitation over land – a premise that turns modern meteorology on its head.
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by physicist Anastassia Makarieva about the critical yet often overlooked role forests play in maintaining ecological balance and climate stability. Through the lens of the biotic pump theory, she highlights the importance of moisture and rainfall cycles, the dangers of ecosystem tipping points, and the escalating risks of deforestation. Anastassia argues that a paradigm shift is needed – one that redefines how humanity understands and manages forests in the fight against global heating.
 
What would climate models reveal if they fully integrated the Biotic Pump Theory? How might policies protecting against deforestation evolve if societies recognized the irreplaceable role forests play in how water moves on land? And beyond policy, how might reconnecting with our deep interdependence on forests help us rediscover a richer connection to ourselves as individuals?
 
(Conversation recorded on July 9th, 2025)

 
 
 
About Anastassia Makarieva:
 
Dr. Anastassia Makarieva is a Russian atmospheric physicist and senior researcher at the Petersburg Nuclear Physics Institute. She obtained her Ph.D. in atmospheric physics from St. Petersburg State University in 2000. Makarieva is best known for co-developing the "biotic pump" theory alongside the late Professor Victor Gorshkov. The theory posits that forests play a crucial role in driving atmospheric moisture transport, effectively influencing rainfall patterns over land. Her work emphasizes the importance of intact forests in maintaining climate stability and has challenged conventional climate models to incorporate the dynamic role of vegetation in atmospheric processes.

 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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Why We Need Forests: Their Vital Role in Climate Dynamics, Rain, and The Biotic Pump with Anastassia Makarieva

In this week’s Frankly, Nate weighs the value of a pound of gold with other things that we derive worth from in our lives – from dollars and bitcoin to...less pecuniary markers. Although gold is simply a metal, it has long been a symbol of wealth in human cultures. Through highlighting other important, sometimes intangible forms of wealth, Nate encourages the viewer to not only examine what they place the most worth on in their own lives, but also to consider why things have worth to us as humans living in a complex, modern system.
 
What contributes to the real wealth of your life – and can it be measured and held, or is it something more intangible? And finally, how might our definitions of wealth change if we were -as individuals and as a culture - to fully appreciate the miracle that is human life and connection with one another and the natural world?
 
(Recorded August 31, 2025)
 

 
 Show Notes and More
 
 Watch this video episode on YouTube

 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 

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10 Things Worth More Than a Pound of Gold | Frankly 106

Water has always been a fundamental force shaping our planet – both in sustaining life across ecosystems and in guiding the organization and survival of human societies. Yet, many of us are unaware of how intertwined our lives are with the water cycle, much less of the ways we deplete and degrade the water resources that we and other living creatures rely upon for our very existence. What might change if we had a deeper understanding of global and regional hydrological cycles?
 
On this Reality Roundtable, Nate is joined by Heather Cooley, Zach Weiss, and Mike Joy to discuss the importance of water and hydrology and the complex ways they impact our planet. Together, they unpack how we are disrupting global water systems through global heating and pollution, resulting in increases in droughts and flooding across the globe. Additionally, each expert offers their perspective on the action required to heal our water systems – including ecosystem restoration, regional watershed planning, and national policies to reduce industrial and agricultural pollution.
 
If we continue with our same patterns of agriculture, industrial production, and consumption, what will the availability of clean and affordable water be like just decades from now? Are we already beginning to see the signs of destabilized hydrological cycles in our planetary system? And could fostering a better relationship and understanding of the water cycle lead to a broader recognition of our interdependence with all systems that support rich, complex life on Earth?
 
(Conversation recorded on June 11th, 2025)
 
 
 
About Heather Cooley:
 
Heather Cooley is the Director of the Pacific Institute’s Water Program. She conducts and oversees research on an array of water issues, such as the connections between water and energy, sustainable water use and management, and the hydrologic impacts of climate change. 
 
 
 
About Mike Joy:
 
Mike Joy is a leading freshwater ecologist and an advocate for the conservation of our waterways. He has been working for two decades at the interface of science and policy with a goal of addressing agriculture's polluting impacts on New Zealand’s waterways.
 
 
 
About Zach Weiss: 
 
Zachary Weiss is the founder of Elemental Ecosystems, an ecological development company specializing in watershed restoration and ecosystem regeneration, and has worked in over 25 countries across 6 continents. After 10 years, Zach also founded Water Stories as a way to train others in the same work through his watershed restoration expertise. 
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
 
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
 
 
 Join our Hylo group and connect with other listeners

How Water Shapes Our Planet: The Undervalued Resource that Supports Everything We Do | Reality Roundtable 18

In the next 25 years, the International Organization for Migration estimates that one billion people will be displaced from their homes due to climate-related events. From island nations underwater to inland areas too hot and extreme to sustain life, the individuals and communities in these areas will need somewhere new to live. Where will these people go, and how will this mass migration add further pressure to the stability of nations and the world? 
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by environmental and migration historian, Sunil Amrith, to explore the complex history of human movement – and what it reveals about the looming wave of climate-driven migration. Sunil explains how the historical record shows migration has always been a defining feature of human life, not an exception. Together, they examine projections for future migration trends and the urgent need for acceptance, planning, and infrastructure to support the integration of new communities.
 
What lessons can we draw from past environmental crises that forced people to move, and how do today’s challenges overlap or differ? How have countries historically responded to large-scale migration, and what long-term impacts did those choices have on their stability and prosperity? Ultimately, how might a more open and welcoming mindset help us face the unprecedented migrations ahead, as well as transform them into opportunities for survival, resilience, and shared thriving?
 
(Conversation recorded on August 14th, 2025) 
 
 
 
About Sunil Amrith:
 
Sunil Amrith is the Renu and Anand Dhawan Professor of History at Yale University, with a secondary appointment as Professor at the Yale School of the Environment. He is the current Henry R. Luce Director of the Whitney and Betty MacMillan Center for International and Area Studies at Yale. Sunil’s research focuses on the movements of people and the ecological processes that have connected South and Southeast Asia, and has expanded to encompass global environmental history. He has published in the fields of environmental history, the history of migration, and the history of public health.
 
Sunil’s most recent book The Burning Earth, an environmental history of the modern world that foregrounds the experiences of the Global South, was named a 2024 “essential read” by The New Yorker, and a “book we love” 2024 by NPR. Additionally, Sunil’s four previous books include Unruly Waters and Crossing the Bay of Bengal: The Furies of Nature and the Fortunes of Migrants. 
 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
 Join our Hylo channel and connect with other listeners

Where Will Humanity Move When the World Gets Too Hot? Mass Climate Migration & The Rise of Uninhabitable Regions with Sunil Amrith

In this week’s Frankly, Nate unpacks some key blindspots of “the walrus movement”—a placeholder label that's a gentle nod to those championing bold social and ecological ideals. While mostly well-intentioned, this "movement" can miss the stark limits of our planet’s unfolding biophysical reality.
 
What happens when lofty goals sidestep ecological and energetic realities? How might we incorporate these oversights to drive clear, purposeful action towards a (more) sustainable future? And how do we ground ourselves in biophysical truths while envisioning a system that better serves the planet and its people?
 
(Recorded August 11, 2025)
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube

 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.

 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
 
 
Join our Substack newsletter

 
 
 
 Join our Hylo channel and connect with other listeners

Key Blindspots of the “Walrus” Movement | Frankly 105

Our personal concept of identity shapes every decision we make – ranging from life-altering choices to our smallest daily preferences. Identity influences our values, the relationships we build, and how we respond to an increasingly unpredictable world, whether in constructive or destructive ways. But how are these identities formed, and how might we take a more deliberate role in cultivating a healthy sense of self – and therefore a healthier way of relating to the world?
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by social neuroscientist Taylor Guthrie to delve into the neuroscience of identity, exploring how the brain constructs a sense of self and the implications for our modern societal challenges. They discuss the role of values and personal narrative in identity formation, the impact of technology and consumerism on self-perception, and the distinction between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation as they relate to purpose and success. 
 
How is today’s consumer culture undermining our ability to actively participate in the development of our own identities? Could a better understanding of how we think about ourselves be key to fostering better relationships with others? Ultimately, how could purposeful reflection – about who we are and who we want to be – lead to lives that are richer in connection, community, and fulfillment? 
 
(Conversation recorded on June 24th, 2025) 
 
 
 
About Taylor Guthrie:
 
Taylor D. Guthrie, PhD, is a social cognitive neuroscientist who studies how the human brain constructs a sense of self, both individually and in relationship with others. Taylor’s work bridges neuroscience, psychology, and culture. He investigates how attention and value systems interact with brain networks to form narrative identity – and how modern cultural forces like social media, status-seeking, and consumerism can hijack this process. 
 
Additionally, Taylor has earned the Distinguished Teaching Award from the University of Oregon. He also creates public-facing content, including The Cellular Republic, a lecture series that demystifies cognitive and social neuroscience. Now preparing for a postdoctoral fellowship in the Netherlands, Guthrie continues to explore how identity transformation – at both individual and collective levels – could support meaningful responses to today’s ecological, psychological, and cultural challenges.
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
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How Do You Become Who You Want to Be?: The Science Behind Identity, Purpose, and Motivation with Taylor Guthrie

In this week’s Frankly, Nate shares an excerpt from his daily life that mirrors a larger observation on the human predicament. A grocery shopping trip turns into a reflection on value vs cost, and how consumption in our society is driven by the perception of value that’s presented to us. 
 
What is the difference in value that our minds create between a $5 container of blueberries, and a $1 container? What is the difference between price, cost and value? What things in our lives do we treat as disposable when they are cheap, but treat as treasure when they are pricey? What would it look like if the things we consume were priced to account for both the value and the cost of that item? How do we approach our lives with a more critical and systems-lens eye? 
 
Among the in-video questions for viewers: Have you had a “blueberry moment” in the buying and reflecting of things?
 
(Recorded August 13, 2025)
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube

 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
 
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
 
 
Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners

Ducks and Blueberries: A Reflection on Price, Cost and Value

In Western culture, topics surrounding death and dying are often considered taboo and are generally avoided in everyday conversations. But this reluctance to fully acknowledge and integrate death as a natural part of the human experience has rendered us less able to cope with the end of life and less prepared to show up for ourselves and the people around us as we inevitably navigate loss. But what if a more skillful engagement with death and grief could actually offer us a more mindful approach to living?
 
In this conversation, Nate is joined by Stephen Jenkinson, a cultural activist and author on the topic of grief, loss, and dying, to discuss his extensive work on grief literacy and the shortcomings of the dominant cultural attitudes towards death. Stephen reflects on his experiences as a palliative care counselor, offering insights on how to navigate the complexities of life and death, advocating for a more profound participation with grief.
 
What if we viewed grief as a skill rather than an affliction? What opportunities and insights become available to us as we more deeply understand and accept death as a part of life? In what ways does modern culture's reliance on hope act as a distraction from facing reality – and how does this harm us towards the end of life? 
 
(Conversation recorded on June 12th, 2025)

 
 
 
About Stephen Jenkinson:
 
Stephen Jenkinson is a cultural activist and author on the topic of grief, loss, and dying. Along with his wife Nathalie Roy, Stephen co-founded the Orphan Wisdom School, where he writes and teaches about the skills of deep living, making human culture, and how to die and grieve well – skills he believes we have forgotten in our culture today.
 
Stephen holds a master’s degree in theological studies from Harvard and an additional master’s degree in social work from the University of Toronto. Additionally, he served for years as the program director of a palliative-care center in a major Toronto teaching hospital, where he provided counseling at hundreds of deathbeds. He is the author of many books, including the award-winning Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul, as well as his upcoming book titled Matrimony: Ritual, Culture, and the Heart's Work.
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners

The Forgotten Skills of Dying and Grieving Well: How Engaging with Loss Can Help Us Live More Fully with Stephen Jenkinson

Insects, bugs, creepy-crawlies – these small animals are often considered a nuisance (or worse) by humanity, bringing up an ongoing desire to kill or mitigate these “pests” that plague our backyards, homes, and gardens. But we’re beginning to see that, despite our cultural misconceptions, insects are actually at the foundation of our biosphere, food supply, and nearly every life process on Earth. This makes recent reports of rapidly declining insect populations all the more troubling – but can we recognize the vital importance of insects and reverse the harm we’ve done before it’s too late?
 
On this episode, Nate is joined by environmental journalist, Oliver Milman, to discuss the alarming decline in insect populations in the past few decades and the far-reaching consequences this has for ecosystem stability, human well-being, and the overall health of the biosphere. From pollination and nutrient cycles to being the base of food webs for countless other animals, the loss of insects has cascading effects beyond what we could imagine. Oliver outlines the human activity that is driving the worst of these trends, including how accelerating global heating is amplifying these ecological pressures. 
 
How would a major collapse of insect populations immediately disrupt our everyday lives — and are we already starting to see those impacts? How do various sectors of human activity, from industrial agriculture to urban development, influence insect health? And ultimately, would supporting thriving insect populations require us to fundamentally rethink our relationship with the creatures with which we share the biosphere? 
 
(Conversation recorded on June 25th, 2025) 
 
 
 
 
About Oliver Milman:
 
Oliver Milman is a British journalist and the environment correspondent at The Guardian. His first book, The Insect Crisis, is a devastating account of how a silent collapse in worldwide insect populations is threatening everything from the birds in our skies to the food on our plates. It was published by Atlantic in 2022 and shortlisted for the Wainwright Prize for Conservation Writing.
 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners

The Silent Collapse: What the Disappearance of Insects Means for Humanity and the Earth with Oliver Milman

In this week’s Frankly, Nate reflects on a moment of unexpected insight during a morning bike ride, which catalyzed a larger meditation on the modern human predicament. This episode explores the neuroscience of dopamine, and offers a reflection on the ways it plays into distraction, technology, and how we interact with the hyperstimulating world around us. 
 
What is the “ghost of dopamine past,” and how does it shape not only our individual lives, but our collective economic and ecological behavior? Why does the urge to scroll on our phones override the deep calm of watching wildlife? And how might tactics like dopamine fasting or socialization help us rebalance our nervous systems in a culture engineered to constantly produce more?
 
(Recorded July 28th, 2025)
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
 
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
 
 
Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners

The Ghost of Dopamine Past | Frankly 103

The second part of The Great Simplification Animated Series is now available!
 
Visit http://thegreatsimplification.com to view now.

The Human Superorganism - TGS Animated Series Preview

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