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Nate Hagens

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens explores money, energy, economy, and the environment with world experts and leaders to understand how everything fits together, and where we go from here.

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens

On this episode, Nate is joined by climate science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson to discuss how he contributes to the discussion of climate and pro-social changemaking through writing. There have been many calls to improve the communication of scientists to the general public in hopes it will help people understand the severity of the various global threats we face. A key component to such communication comes from art and literature. Even further, the humanities help us think about the type of future and culture we want to have given the information that science brings us. How can we incorporate fiction into our set of tools to bring more people into awareness of the pressing systemic dynamics underpinning global events?
 
About Kim Stanley Robinson:
 
Kim Stanley Robinson is an American science fiction writer. He is the author of over twenty books, including the internationally bestselling Mars trilogy, and more recently Red Moon, New York 2140, and The Ministry for the Future. He was part of the U.S. National Science Foundation’s Antarctic Artists and Writers’ Program in 1995 and 2016, and a featured speaker at COP-26 in Glasgow, as a guest of the UK government and the UN. His work has been translated into 28 languages, and won awards including the Hugo, Nebula, and World Fantasy awards. In 2016 asteroid 72432 was named “Kimrobinson.”
 
To watch this video episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/Xc53KPv7flk 
 
Show Notes & Links to Learn More: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/66-kim-stanley-robinson

Kim Stanley Robinson: "Climate, Fiction, and The Future"

(Conversation recorded on March 25th, 2024)
 Show Summary: 
In this episode, Nate is joined by educator and researcher Vanessa Andreotti to discuss what she calls “hospicing modernity” in order to move beyond the world we’ve come to know and the failed promises that “modernity” has made to our current culture. Whether you refer to it as the metacrisis, the polycrisis, or - in Nate’s terms - the human predicament, Vanessa brings a unique framing rooted in indigenous knowledge and relationality to aid in understanding, grieving, and building emotional resilience within this space. What does it mean to live and work within systems that are designed to fail, embedded in an aimless culture? How do we as individuals steady ourselves and create inner strength before engaging with such harrowing work? Importantly, what could education look like if founded in the principles of intergenerational knowledge transmission and emotional regulation, that are centered on our collective entanglement with the Earth? 
 
About Vanessa Andreotti:
 
Vanessa de Oliveira Andreotti is the Dean of the Faculty of Education at the University of Victoria. She is a former Canada Research Chair in Race, Inequalities and Global Change and a former David Lam Chair in Critical Multicultural Education. Vanessa has more than 100 published articles in areas related to global and climate education. She has also worked extensively across sectors internationally in projects related to global justice, global citizenship, Indigenous knowledge systems and the climate and nature emergency. Vanessa is the author of Hospicing Modernity: Facing humanity's wrongs and the implications for social activism, one of the founders of the Gesturing Towards Decolonial Futures Arts/Research Collective and one of the designers of the course Facing Human Wrongs: Climate Complexity and Relational Accountability, available at UVic through Continuing Studies.
 
 
 
For show notes, including referenced articles and additional resources:
 https://thegreatsimplification.squarespace.com/episode/125-vanessa-andreotti
 
 
 
To watch this video episode on Youtube → https://youtu.be/h5kQ7_IZ8YI
 

 
00:00 - Intro
 
1:52 - The House of Modernity
 
16:34 - Hospicing the House of Modernity
 
22:56 - Theory of Change
 
31:49 - Affective Responses
 
43:55 - Healing Trauma
 
54:42 - Relational Intelligence
 
59:11 - Metabolical Literacy
 
1:04:59 - Dopamine Dependence
 
1:07:25 - Depth Education
 
1:09:27 - Reception with Young People
 
1:14:38 - How Do You Keep Going?
 
1:20:22 - Personal Advice
 
1:28:34 - What Would You Do with a Magic Wand?

Vanessa Andreotti: "Hospicing Modernity and Rehabilitating Humanity"

(Conversation recorded on December 2nd, 2024)
 
 
 
One of the central ecological challenges of our time is addressing the plastic and petrochemical pollution that has exploded over the past several decades. This global issue will require the cooperation of all nations. But based on the disintegration of UN negotiations for a treaty on plastic pollution last Sunday, this is easier said than done. 
 
In this special episode, Nate is joined by toxicologist Jane Muncke, who provides an in-depth analysis following the final day of discussions in Busan, South Korea. Together, they explore the complex intergovernmental negotiations that have defined the treaty process, as well as the environmental and health policies that have shaped these conversations in recent years.
 
Will we ever be able to place chemical safety and public health above economic motivations at the global level? Could increased public awareness of the way these seemingly convenient products affect our health and well-being finally shut off the plastic tap? Finally, is it possible for the treaty to go beyond waste management and recycling, to instead move towards reducing the production and consumption of plastics at the source? 
 
 
 
About Jane Muncke: 
 
Jane Muncke holds a doctorate degree in environmental toxicology and a MSc in environmental science from the ETH Zurich. Since 2012 she has been working as Managing Director and Chief Scientific Officer at the charitable Food Packaging Forum Foundation (FPF) in Zurich, Switzerland. FPF is a research and science communication organization focusing on chemicals in all types of food contact materials. 
 
Jane Muncke is a full scientific member of the Society of Toxicology (SOT), the Society for Environmental Chemistry and Toxicology (SETAC), the American Chemical Society (ACS) and the Endocrine Society. Since 2019, she has been an elected expert member of the Swiss Organic Farming Association Bio Suisse’s committee on trade and processing where she contributes to further developing the standards for processing and packaging of organic food. She is a director of the FAN initiative, a collective of experts warning about resource overshoot, the polycrisis, and related societal collapse.
 
 
 
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Shutting Off The Plastic Tap: A Global Treaty To Regulate Petrochemical Pollution? with Jane Muncke

(Conversation recorded on November 5th, 2024) 
 
 
 
It is no secret that population dynamics significantly impact global stability. But what’s really behind today’s shifting global birth trends, the increased need for medically-assisted pregnancy, and the changing age demographics of industrialized nations? Furthermore, what are the implications of these shifts for future economic security? 
 
Today, Nate is joined by investment strategist Jeremy Grantham to discuss the critical but underreported issues surrounding toxicity and public health – particularly endocrine disruptors and their impact on human fertility, longevity, and societal structures. 
 
In this important conversation, Jeremy highlights the ubiquitousness of toxicity in our modern environments, the cultural and economic factors contributing to declining fertility rates, and the urgent need to transition to non-toxic materials and energy sources. 
 
In what ways could population decline pose serious economic challenges, particularly in aging societies? How might the alarming drop in sperm count affect future policies on immigration? Finally, how can we detoxify both our environments – and capitalism – before it’s too late?
 
 
 
About Jeremy Grantham:
 
Jeremy Grantham co-founded GMO in 1977 and is a member of GMO’s Asset Allocation team, serving as the firm’s long-term investment strategist. He is a member of the GMO Board of Directors, a partner of the firm, and has also served on the investment boards of several non-profit organizations. Additionally in 1989, Jeremy co-founded the Grantham Foundation for the Protection of the Environment. Prior to GMO’s founding, Mr. Grantham was co-founder of Batterymarch Financial Management in 1969 where he recommended commercial indexing in 1971, one of several claims to being first. He began his investment career as an economist with Royal Dutch Shell. Mr. Grantham earned his undergraduate degree from the University of Sheffield (U.K.) and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He is a member of the Academy of Arts and Sciences, holds a CBE from the UK and is a recipient of the Carnegie Medal for Philanthropy.
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
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The Baby Bust: How The Toxicity Crisis Could Cause the Next Economic Crash with Jeremy Grantham

(Recorded December 5, 2024)
 
 
 
It’s not everyday that a stranger thanks you for ‘ruining their life’. In this heartfelt Frankly, Nate reflects on a powerful encounter with a venture capitalist whose life was upended - and ultimately enriched - after immersing himself in the full content of The Great Simplification podcast. This man’s journey from techno-optimism to a deeper understanding of the limits of infinite growth on a finite planet shines a light on the purpose of this channel: to inspire and equip curious, prosocial individuals to channel their skills and creativity toward building a future that’s better than the default.
 
Nate shares an email from this listener, detailing the emotional and intellectual wrestling match of confronting uncomfortable truths. From sleepless nights to moments of clarity, this journey underscores the transformative power of knowledge - not just to inform, but to empower action, shifting us from passive consumers of content to active creators of responses.
 
What does it feel like to be confronted with the uncomfortable realities of the systems synthesis? Is it worth it? And are you ready to join a growing community of changemakers leaning into this challenge?
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
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"Thank You for Ruining My Life" | Frankly 80

(Conversation recorded on November 7th, 2024) 
 
 
 
Long-time listeners of The Great Simplification may have a good grasp of the many impending crises that humanity faces. But once we understand the scope of this predicament, what changes could we make to prepare in our own communities right now? 
 
Today, Nate is joined by local organizer and activist Christian Sawyer, to discuss how he’s built a pro-social community in rural Arizona. Christian emphasizes the power of local collaboration and demonstrates how the cultivation of social capital builds resilience in the face of challenges, as well as creates better lives for those who live in the community. Together, Nate and Christian explore the dynamics of community work parties, the skills learned through cooperation, and the significance of trust and friendship in building a supportive network. 
 
What do aspects of The Great Simplification look like in action? What are the most common challenges faced in group settings, and what lessons can it teach about the values of love, wisdom, and art in fostering meaningful connections? How can anyone, anywhere start creating local initiatives and engaging with ecological awareness? When fostering community, why should we emphasize empowering individuals in order to solve local problems and advocate towards the protection of our most important resources? 
 
 
 
About Christian Sawyer:
 
Christian Sawyer is a local organizer, community lobbyist, sustainable home builder, musician, researcher, and groundwater activist in rural southeast Arizona. He is a journalist for the Arizona Agenda, as well as for Ground Party Papers, a local newsletter for alternative, off-grid, sustainable lifestyles.
 
 Join Christian's Local Sensemaking Slack
 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
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The Great Simplification in Action: Building Resilience Through Local Communities with Christian Sawyer

(Recorded December 16, 2024)
 
 
 
As we wrap up another year of thought-provoking discussions on The Great Simplification, Nate takes us on an imaginative journey in this week’s Frankly - exploring a potential movie script idea that blends systems, science and fiction. What if someone who deeply understood the challenges of today's global economic Superorganism could travel back in time? Armed with the knowledge of our current ecological and economic trajectory, what would they change? What could they change?
 
Hollywood media could serve as a powerful tool to educate and inspire a wider audience on the systems science of our current predicament. Unpacking his movie idea, Nate shows us how the interventions highlighted - even if sci-fi - could educate audiences about the complex dynamics which have shaped the issues we now face. Through key character developments, we explore the constraints imposed by the path dependency of the Superorganism, realities about aggregate human behavior, and where degrees of freedom might exist to shift the trajectory of the future - in service of life.
 
If you could travel back through time to the 1970s (or to any date), how would YOU intervene to shape the future? Could education, regenerative ecology, or “Superorganism-free zones” alter the trajectory of civilization? And more broadly, how might Hollywood still play a role in translating the systems science towards providing agency to the general public?
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
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Time Travel & The Superorganism: A Movie Idea | Frankly 81

This year on The Great Simplification, we heard from 54 guests, 18 Reality Roundtable panelists, and Nate shared his thoughts across 31 Frankly episodes. But even after releasing 300+ hours of conversations and reflections since this show began, we are only just beginning to connect all the moving parts that make up The Human Predicament.
 
As 2025 approaches, we invite you to reflect on this compilation of answers to a question that Nate asks every guest: “If you could wave a magic wand – and there was no personal recourse to your decision, what is one thing you would do to improve human and planetary futures?” 
 
While some of these answers would truly take magic to achieve, and others involve actions that we have the power to enact on the individual level and within the communities around us right now, we hope you feel motivated and inspired by the magical thinking of these experts to wave a wand wherever you find yourself in the unfolding story of The Great Simplification.
 
 Thank you so much for your continuing support, and for caring so deeply about the topics of this show.
 
So, what would you do with a magic wand?
 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
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Best of TGS: What Would You Do With a Magic Wand?

(Conversation recorded on November 25th, 2024)
 
 
 
The crises that our world is facing seem to be constantly growing, leading to enormous and devastating systemic effects across the globe. Yet, the ripples of the human predicament are also reaching our personal lives in unexpected ways – through chronic loneliness, loss of coherence to reality, and a widespread feeling of insignificance. 
 
How do we begin to navigate the crisis of meaning that seems to accompany modernity, exacerbated by feeling out of control in the broader world we live in? 
 
In today’s conversation, Nate is joined by professor of psychology and cognitive scientist John Vervaeke to discuss the state of ‘the meaning crisis’, including the social and cultural contexts that have fostered such pervasive loss of connection and purpose. Vervaeke also unpacks the key practices that he and others have found most effective in regaining wisdom and direction while living in the modern era. 
 
What can cognitive science tell us about the role of spirituality and religion in living a life that is rich in relationships and clarity? How do flow states, rituals, and lifelong learning contribute to strengthening mental health and fostering adaptability? And perhaps most importantly, how might reconnecting with a sense of humility, wisdom, and shared humanity help guide us toward a more meaningful, collective existence?
 
 
 
About John Vervaeke: 
 
John Vervaeke, Ph.D. is an award-winning professor at the University of Toronto in the departments of psychology, cognitive science, and Buddhist psychology. He currently teaches courses in the Psychology department on thinking and reasoning, cognitive development, and higher cognitive processes.
 
John is also the director of the Cognitive Science program where he teaches additional courses on Cognitive Science and consciousness, wherein he emphasizes 4E (embodied, embedded, enacted, and extended) models of cognition and consciousness.
 
Additionally, John is the director of the Consciousness and Wisdom Studies Laboratory. He is also the co-author of the book Zombies in Western Culture: A 21st Century Crisis, which integrates Psychology and Cognitive Science to address the meaning crisis in Western society. 
 
He is the author and presenter of the YouTube series Awakening from the Meaning Crisis.

 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
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The Meaning Crisis: Wisdom, Purpose, and the Search for Coherence with John Vervaeke

(Conversation recorded on December 4th, 2024) 
 
 
 
It is an unfortunate reality that the countries least responsible for the climate and ecological crises we face are often the ones most vulnerable to their effects today and in the future. India – with its population of 1.4 billion, rapidly rising temperatures, and limited resources compared to many developed nations – finds itself at the crossroads of these challenges. What do India’s leading scientists and advocates have to say about coping with these extreme pressures? 
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by environmentalist and policy advocate Sunita Narain to discuss the intricate relationship between environmental issues and development, emphasizing the need for economically inclusive solutions. She highlights India’s challenges with sanitation, urban mobility, and climate change, while pushing for wiser approaches to governance and community planning.
 
How can the moral and cultural history of India combine with science and innovation to guide policy making decisions? Why does ‘sustainable development’ need to go beyond environmental considerations to include the economic availability for each nation’s poorest citizens? And perhaps most importantly, how could today’s challenges position India as a global leader in creating an economic system that prioritizes the health and well-being of all life on Earth?
 
 
 
About Sunita Narain:
 
Sunita Narain has worked at the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE), a research and advocacy centre based in New Delhi, since 1982. She is currently Executive Director of the Centre, Treasurer of the Society for Environmental Communications and Editor of the bi-monthly magazine Down To Earth.
 
She is a writer and environmentalist who uses knowledge for change. In 2005, she was awarded the Padma Shri, the fourth-highest civilian award of the Republic of India. She has also received the World Water Prize for her work on rainwater harvesting and for her political influence in developing paradigms for community water management. In 2005, she also chaired the Tiger Task Force, at the request of the Prime Minister, to develop a conservation action plan for the country after the loss of the tigers in Sariska. Sunita Narain was a member of the Prime Minister's Council on Climate Change as well as the National Ganga River Basin Authority.

 
 
 
Show Notes and More 
 
 Watch this video episode on YouTube
 

 
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Reality and Perseverance in India: Pollution, Poverty, and Policy with Sunita Narain

On this episode, Daniel Schmachtenberger returns to discuss a surprisingly overlooked risk to our global systems and planetary stability: artificial intelligence. Through a systems perspective, Daniel and Nate piece together the biophysical history that has led humans to this point, heading towards (and beyond) numerous planetary boundaries and facing geopolitical risks all with existential consequences. How does artificial intelligence, not only add to these risks, but accelerate the entire dynamic of the metacrisis? What is the role of intelligence vs wisdom on our current global pathway, and can we change course? Does artificial intelligence have a role to play in creating a more stable system or will it be the tipping point that drives our current one out of control? 
 
About Daniel Schmachtenberger:
 
Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. 
 
The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal.
 
Towards these ends, he’s had particular interest in the topics of catastrophic and existential risk, civilization and institutional decay and collapse as well as progress, collective action problems, social organization theories, and the relevant domains in philosophy and science.
 
For Show Notes and More visit: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/71-daniel-schmachtenberger 
 
To watch this video episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/_P8PLHvZygo

Daniel Schmachtenberger: "Artificial Intelligence and The Superorganism"

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