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Nate Hagens

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens explores money, energy, economy, and the environment with world experts and leaders to understand how everything fits together, and where we go from here.

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens

The Dust Bowl of the 1930s is one of the worst ecological disasters in American history. Across the great plains, roughly 2.5 million people left the region over the decade, amid severe crop failures, livestock losses and widespread hunger. Caused by drought and extreme land degradation, this regional collapse is also an example of what is now happening in ecosystems across the globe. The glimmer of hope in this story lies in the equally remarkable recovery of the Dust Bowl region, which has continued on as one of the most productive agricultural regions in the world. What if we could name and replicate the techniques used to rehabilitate this once inhospitable landscape and use them to restore and regenerate local ecosystems across the planet? 
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by regenerative change practitioner Brett KenCairn for a conversation that reframes the dominant narrative about climate change, emphasizing that it was never just a carbon problem but also one centered on living systems degradation. Brett explains that the desolation of foundational, life-supporting ecosystems has resulted in our planet now operating at roughly half its biological productive capacity. Remarkably, this reframing also clears the way for a path forward: because most degradation is due to how humans have used the land, it means – if we act soon – altering our use of the land can also help regenerate lost capacity. Brett describes how his team and other regenerative experts are attempting to do just that by restoring biodiversity, water cycles, photosynthetic capacity, and (most importantly) opening the door to broad community participation through training, compensation, and meaningful work. 
 
What sorts of regenerative techniques might help bolster our local ecosystems' capacities to buffer, absorb, and cycle energy in order to support life during the extremes ahead? How could we alter our economic and social incentives to better support those doing the critical work to stabilize local ecology? And lastly, could the principles of living systems regeneration also act as an opportunity to reconnect with our place among the web of life, paving the way toward a humanity rooted in stewardship and reciprocity? 
 
(Conversation recorded on May 13th, 2026)
 
 
 
About Brett KenCairn:
 
Brett KenCairn is the Founding Director of Center for Regenerative Solutions and Senior Policy Advisor for Climate and Resilience in the City of Boulder's Climate Initiatives Team. He coordinates the city's nature-based solutions work. Brett has worked across the western US in community-based initiatives in rural, Native American, and other marginalized communities. He is the co-founder of multiple organizations including the Rogue River Institute for Ecology and Economy, Veterans Green Jobs, and Community Energy Systems.
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
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Back to the Land: Why Restoring Earth's Capacity Will Take All of Us with Brett KenCairn

Link to submit: https://senja.io/p/the-great-simplification/r/share-your-technology
 
 This week, Nate is putting out a call to listeners of this platform to share stories from the work they're doing on the ground, within their own communities and connections. He's specifically seeking stories that reflect technological innovation – either through goldilocks technology, social innovation, or inner tech stacks – as responses to the more-than-human predicament. This can look many ways and apply to multiple scales, but the overall goal of this campaign is to celebrate the creativity and impact you've had while working on the issues that are most meaningful to you.
 
 Chosen stories will be shared on social media, and some will be included in upcoming Frankly episodes. It is our hope that showcasing the projects and initiatives of those actively shifting their own lives in response to the metacrisis may inspire a domino effect of ideas from others. The link to submit videos will only be live for the next two weeks, until June 12th – so if you'd like to share your story for this project the time is now. Thank you for the continued support for this content, and I look forward to hearing from you about your projects and how you embody this work.
 
 (Recorded May 27th, 2026)

Casting Call for a Future Frankly

In this week's Frankly, Nate discusses his long-running attempt to understand non-duality, and why this concept has remained just out of his grasp despite years of conversations with teachers, thinkers, and podcast guests. He begins with a personal reflection on the possibility that his difficulty understanding non-duality does not stem from lack of intelligence or a short attention span, but from the particular cultural operating system that Westerners seem to inherit from birth. This operating system – which appears everywhere from language to economics to institutions – reinforces separation between the subject and the object, the observer and the observed, the self and the world. It trains us to experience ourselves as isolated individuals standing apart from the living systems that sustain us. 
 
The latter part of this episode turns toward identifying moments where this separation starts to soften: experiences with music, grief, nature, and deep presence, to name a few. Nate connects these insights to the metacrisis as a whole, suggesting that humanity's treatment of the biosphere might be rooted in the same underlying assumption of separateness. Rather than arriving at an outright definition of non-duality, Nate closes with the possibility that loosening our grip on certainty may itself be a large part of the work. 
 
Have there been moments in your own life when the boundary between yourself and the world briefly dissolved? Why does non-duality seem so difficult to define within modern Western culture? And what does it mean to consider separation from nature to be the foundation beneath many of today's global crises?
 
(Recorded May 28th, 2026)
 

 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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A Word I Can't Seem to Understand: Non-Duality and Our Living World | Frankly 144

Most responses to civilizational crises focus outward – policy levers, energy systems, geopolitical actors, and material flows – with little focus on how the humans inside these systems might change and grow in parallel. At the same time, the minds that built this complex and fragile world are also the instruments we must use to navigate its unraveling, making them a critical factor in defining humanity's future. With that said, who will we be as simplification unfolds, and how do we prepare our inner terrains for what's coming?
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by meditation practitioner, Andrew Holecek, for an exploration of the concept of dark retreats, periods of extended time in complete absence of light, as a practical path toward reflection and reconnection with ourselves and others. Andrew draws on decades of study in Tibetan Buddhism and non-dual wisdom traditions to explore how the external complexity of modern life is mirrored in the internal complexity of the modern mind. Central to his work is the concept of non-duality: a return from the fragmented display of self-versus-world toward a more unified, less suffering-prone relationship with reality. Andrew and Nate also explore the misleading entanglement of happiness and consumption, arguing that satisfaction arises not from acquiring what we want, but from the cessation of wanting itself. 
 
What would it mean to practice darkness as a needed reprieve from constant light and stimulation, rather than deprivation? If the coming decades hold a forced reduction in external, material complexity, how could a deepening of our internal worlds make us more resilient, compassionate, and grounded? And could confronting fear – by learning to move through it rather than avoid it – be one of the most practical preparations for navigating future uncertainty and social fracture?
 
(Conversation recorded on April 28th, 2026) 
 
 
 
About Dr. Andrew Holecek:
 
Andrew Holecek is an interdisciplinary scholar-practitioner in Tibetan Buddhism and other nondual wisdom traditions who has spent over thirty years helping people transform life's greatest challenges into opportunities for awakening. A dedicated meditation practitioner who completed the traditional Tibetan Buddhist three-year retreat, Andrew is known for making profound contemplative practices accessible and practical.
 
He is actively involved in scientific research on dark retreat with the University of Wisconsin-Madison, as well as the Institute for Advanced Consciousness Studies where he serves as Resident Contemplative Scholar. Andrew is a member of the American Academy of Sleep Medicine, the author of several scientific papers on lucid dreaming, and was also the host of the now-concluded Edge of Mind podcast, where he interviewed guests to explore ancient teachings and modern topics about the nature of mind and reality.
 
Andrew's newest area of focus is dark retreat, the ancient Buddhist practice of extended meditation in complete darkness. His most recent book, Total Eclipse of the Mind: Unleashing the Power of Darkness for Creativity, Healing, and Transformation, draws on more than thirty years of personal dark retreat experience. True to his approach, Andrew teaches dark retreat – and the more accessible gray retreat practice of weaving in and out of darkness – as a genuine path to healing, creativity, and self-understanding.
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
 
 
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 Join our Hylo channel and connect with other listeners

Darkness Deficit Disorder: How Constant Stimulation Has Shaped our Consumption with Andrew Holecek

In this week's Frankly, Nate offers the third episode in his series on staying human, this time focused on presence. Nate shares a personal reflection on presence, and its importance in a reality where we are constantly living in anticipation of the future. What begins as a missed moment of coffee and a birdsong unfolds into an examination of the brain's "default mode network" – one of the most studied structures in neuroscience, which supports functions like memory, future simulation, self-narrative, and wandering thought. Drawing from neuroscience, contemplative traditions, and his own decades spent modeling civilizational risk, Nate examines how the modern world – especially for those immersed in the metacrisis – pulls attention away from lived experience and into endless internal simulations about collapse, uncertainty, and what comes next.
 
He also reflects on the emotional burden carried by people who are deeply aware of ecological decline, social instability, and systemic fragility, while questioning the widely held assumption that constant preoccupation is equivalent to care. Through stories, research, and practical reflections, Nate offers five pathways back to embodied awareness through using sensory attention, taking pause, single-tasking, remaining open to beauty, and embracing the finitude of life itself. Ultimately, this episode asks whether protecting the future requires us to stop abandoning the present – and whether presence itself may be one of the most necessary forms of resilience in the years ahead.
 
How does the brain's default mode network shape our experience of dread, distraction, and time? What do we lose when awareness of the metacrisis becomes a form of absence from our own lives? And how can people engaged in difficult, world-facing work use strategies to remain emotionally present for the relationships and moments directly in front of them?
 
(Recorded May 18th, 2026)
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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A Guide to Staying Human (Part 3): Why Mindfulness Matters When the World Is Breaking Down

Over the past century, standardized testing evolved from a wartime sorting tool into the defining feature of how we measure children's worth and potential, fundamentally altering the mental health and learning outcomes of an entire generation. Now, as global crises mount and our leaders struggle to navigate staggering complexity, a growing number of researchers are asking: what if the root cause of civilizational dysfunction is something as upstream and innately human as the way we educate our children?
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by developmental psychologist Dr. Theo Dawson alongside returning guest and philosopher of education Dr. Zak Stein to explore the history of educational testing and show how we've progressively narrowed our definition of learning while stunting the very mental capacities we most need. Together, they make the case that without restoring the developmental health of the next generation, no amount of policy reform or technological innovation will be sufficient to change humanity's current trajectory. At the core of this argument, they discuss the need to pivot our testing and developmental measurements toward those that foster mental complexity, individual growth, and fundamental human skills, ultimately leveraging change through the entire educational system. Both guests emphasize the central importance of cultivating an "earned sense of competence" – the deep, embodied confidence that comes from learning through genuine engagement with the world – which they believe is the most powerful resource a civilization can regenerate.
 
What are the effects on critical thinking and development as a result of years of memorization and high stakes testing? How might reframing the goals of our educational systems toward cultivating human flourishing help both average citizens and those in power make better decisions for the whole of society? And if education truly shapes everything from geopolitics to economic behavior, what would it require of us to treat the next generation as civilization's most precious resource as we continue to face more societal and ecological turbulence?
 
(Conversation recorded on March 25th, 2026)

 
 
 
About Theo Dawson:
 
Dr. Theo Dawson is the founder and executive director of Lectica, a nonprofit organization that develops evidence-based developmental assessments and builds knowledge about learning and its role in the future of society. She received her master's and PhD from the University of California at Berkeley and is widely published in the field of cognitive developmental psychology.
 
 
 
About Zak Stein:
 
Dr. Zak Stein is a philosopher of education and co-founder of Lectica. He is also co-founder of the Center for World Philosophy and Religion, the Civilization Research Institute, and the Consilience Project. He is the author of dozens of published papers and two books, including Education in a Time Between Worlds. Zak received his Doctor of Education from Harvard University.
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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Learning in a Way that Actually Matters: Why Standardized Testing Contributed to the Metacrisis – and How to Fix It with Theo Dawson & Zak Stein | RR 25

In this week's Frankly, Nate offers the second episode in his series on staying human, this time focused on dread. Opening with a personal reflection on his own relationship to dread, Nate describes how the chronic anticipation of collapse affects the human nervous system long before any single crisis fully arrives. He walks through how the neuroscience behind the body's threat response was wired for more immediate risk, rather than the slow-moving and abstract risks of the more-than-human predicament.
 
The latter part of the episode turns toward response. Nate outlines five practical pathways for metabolizing dread, drawing on insights from a wide variety of thinkers across neuroscience, trauma research, and contemplative traditions. These pathways include tools like mental reframing, somatic practice, reclaiming agency, community and co-regulation, and what Nate calls "befriending the darkness." He closes the episode with five concrete steps individuals can take when dread arises in daily life in order to move from dread into presence amidst widespread transformation. 
 
Where in your body do you actually feel the weight of what you know about the future? What is one action within your reach today that is small but real? And who in your life can sit with what you carry, without trying to fix it?
 
(Recorded May 14th, 2026)
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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A Guide to Staying Human (Part 2): Navigating Dread and Carrying the Weight of Tomorrow | Frankly 142

The last pre-war shipments of oil products from the Strait of Hormuz have arrived at their destinations as of early May, meaning the promise of an energy crisis as a result of the Iran war is fast approaching. Leading experts are now forecasting energy disruptions ranging from rationing to severe shortages in import-dependent economies, with roughly 11% of global oil supply already offline. This leaves us with the question: even if this war were to end today, what sort of system-wide effects are locked in given the current loss in production, and what will be required of us to cope with the fallout? 
 
In this episode, Nate welcomes back petroleum geologist Art Berman to break down the timeline of the looming oil shortages stemming from the Strait of Hormuz crisis and just how severe they could become within a tightly coupled, complex global system. Art explains why, even if the war were to end today, the inherent lags in our industrial supply chains mean shortfalls are already baked into the coming months. The resulting rise in energy prices will reach far beyond the pump, rippling out into the cost of virtually everything and confronting much of the world with conditions not seen in over five decades. Ultimately, Art sees this as a forcing mechanism that could compress decades of needed adjustment into months. The outcome will rely less on policy than on whether societies can absorb the shock without breaking.
 
Amid all the speculation about oil prices in the wake of the Iranian conflict, what do these numbers actually mean in physical terms? If this conflict signals the beginning of a long-term decline in energy availability, are we already past the peak of the global material economy, with the financial layer not yet caught up to the physics? And if this conflict signals the beginning of a long-term decline in energy availability, what lessons from our deep past might help us find our way forward?
 
(Conversation recorded on May 6th, 2026)
 
 
 
About Art Berman: 
 
Art Berman is a petroleum geologist with over 40 years of oil and gas industry experience. He is an expert on U.S. shale plays and is currently consulting for several E&P companies and capital groups in the energy sector.
 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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A World On the Precipice: The Last Oil Tanker From the Strait of Hormuz has Arrived – Now What? with Art Berman

This week's Frankly is another edition of Wide Boundary News, where Nate invites listeners to view the constant churn of headlines through a wider-boundary lens. He begins with the misleading framing of recent oil production statistics by the United States, which blurs distinctions between crude oil and broader petroleum products. Nate uses this as a case study in how data can be technically correct, yet structurally misleading – particularly when used for political storytelling. The lens widens as he considers whether the peak of the carbon pulse could pass without clear public understanding, especially as access to the underlying data becomes more restricted and fragmented.
 
Nate then moves into the geopolitical and physical consequences of energy strain, focusing on Iran and the Strait of Hormuz as a critical chokepoint in global oil flows. He connects ongoing disruptions not only to price spikes, but also to how energy functions as a security commodity. These disruptions also extend into cascading effects on food systems, as things like fertilizer supply and cooking fuel reverse in access and affordability. Moving closer to home, Nate discusses the opening of Minnesota's Boundary Waters for copper-nickel mining, highlighting the tension between ecosystem protection and demand for mineral inputs to power any magnitude of energy transition. He also touches on the rapid expansion of AI data centers and the large share of electricity they use, framing this trend as the economic Superorganism diverting massive energy flows toward its cognitive layer, rather than only its muscular layer. Finally, Nate closes with a reflection on industrial livestock productivity as another expression of a system optimized for high output, but operating under energy conditions that may no longer hold. 
 
Why do we need to think about energy as a security commodity? How much of our future depends on being told the truth? And what have we bred for – in cows, seed varieties, supply chains, cities, and financial systems – that we will not be able to feed, medicate, or transport on the backside of the carbon pulse?
 
(Recorded May 5th, 2026)
 
 
 
 Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
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Wide Boundary News: Sacrificing Wilderness, Oil Data Propaganda, and Feeding the Superorganism's Brain

Many of us were taught that humans have been the dominant force shaping the modern world through sheer grit, ingenuity, and innovation. While true to an extent, there are also deep, embedded laws of energy that have both constrained and enabled human cleverness and our influence over our surroundings. What exactly are these laws, and what happened in the past few centuries that allowed for an explosion of technology and consumption? Perhaps more importantly, how can that knowledge help us understand how the decades and centuries ahead might be different?
 
In this episode, Nate is joined by earth scientist and thermodynamicist Tad Patzek for a deep dive into the mathematics and physics driving humanity's energetic and material predicament. Tad walks us through the six great flows of power and materials that keep civilization running, and explains why our public conversation about all of them is dangerously detached from physical reality. He argues that planetary breakdown is not merely a side effect of an economic system built on growing these flows – it is a direct mathematical consequence of overshoot. He rounds out this picture by pointing out that every energy transition in history has been additive, not subtractive – increasing total power in the system – and the current push toward renewables is no exception.
 
What if we were to truly see ourselves through the lens of all the energy we consume – for Americans, the equivalent of a 40-ton whale – would that change how we live? How do technology, population, and per capita energy consumption amplify each other, creating an exponential demand for power? And if we were to acknowledge the inseparability of our ecological crises and our energy blindness, would it help us change our behavior in accordance with the kind of world we'd want our grandchildren to inherit?
 
(Conversation recorded on March 11th, 2026)\
 
 
 
About Tad Patzek:
 
Tad Patzek is Professor Emeritus of Petroleum and Chemical Engineering at the Earth Sciences Division and Director of the Ali I. Al-Naimi Petroleum Engineering Center in KAUST, Saudi Arabia. Formerly, he was the Lois K. and Richard D. Folger Leadership Professor and Chairman of the Petroleum and Geosystems Engineering Department at The University of Texas at Austin. Additionally, he was previously a Professor of Geoengineering at the University of California, Berkeley. Prior to joining Berkeley, he was a researcher at Shell Development, a research company managed for 20 years by M. King Hubbert. He is also a full Presidential Professor in Poland, which is the highest honor, and also served as a member of the DOI Macondo Well Advisory Committee.
 
Patzek's current research involves mathematical and numerical modeling of earth systems with emphasis on fluid flow in soils and rocks that can be hydrofractured. He is working on the thermodynamics and ecology of human survival, and food and energy supply for humanity. His current emphasis is the use of unconventional natural gas as a fuel bridge to the possible new energy supply schemes for the world. Patzek is a coauthor of over 400 papers and reports, and most recently, he has cumulated his research into his upcoming book Thermal Power and Climate Change: A Data-Driven Analysis of Cause and Effect, 1800-2100 (Preprint available now)
 
 
 
Show Notes and More
 
 
 
Watch this video episode on YouTube
 
 
 
Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.
 
 
 
---
 
 
 
Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
 
 
 
Join our Substack newsletter
 
 
 
 Join our Hylo channel and connect with other listeners

Casting Call for a Future Frankly

Lyt når som helst, hvor som helst

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