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Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

From the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything, hear authors like you’ve never heard them before. Stephen Dubner and a stable of Freakonomics friends talk with the writers of mind-bending books, and we hear the best excerpts as well. You’ll learn about skill versus chance, the American discomfort with death, the secret life of dogs, and much more.

To get every show in the Freakonomics Radio Network without ads and a monthly bonus episode of Freakonomics Radio, start a free trial for SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

The Freakonomics Radio Book Club

In his new book “Breakneck,” Dan Wang argues that the U.S. has a lot to learn from China. He also says that “no two peoples are more alike.” We have questions.

 

SOURCES:Dan Wang • , research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, author of 
Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future.
 

RESOURCES:Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future, • by Dan Wang (2025).
The Anaconda in the Chandelier: Writings on China, • by Perry Link (2025).
 • "
Is the U.S. Ready for the Next War? • " by Dexter Filkins 
(The New Yorker, • 2025).
 • "
How smartphones made Shenzhen China’s innovation capital • ," by Dan Wang (2016).
How China Escaped the Poverty Trap, • by Yuen Yuen Ang (2016).
The Art of Not Being Governed, • by Jame Scott (2009).

 

EXTRAS: • "
The Engineering State and the Lawyerly Society: Dan Wang on his new book 'Breakneck • ,'" by the 
Sinica Podcast • (2025).
 • "
Is the U.S. Really Less Corrupt Than China? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2021).

 
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28. China Is Run by Engineers. America Is Run by Lawyers.

Just beneath the surface of the global economy, there is a hidden layer of dealmakers for whom war, chaos, and sanctions can be a great business opportunity. Javier Blas and Jack Farchy, the authors of The World for Sale, help us shine a light on the shadowy realm of commodity traders.

 

SOURCES:Javier Blas • , opinion columnist at Bloomberg News.
Jack Farchy • , energy and commodities senior reporter at Bloomberg News.

 

RESOURCES:The World For Sale: Money, Power, and the Traders Who Barter the Earth's Resources, • by Javier Blas and Jack Farchy (2021)
The King of Oil: The Secret Lives of Marc Rich, • by Daniel Ammann (2010).

 

EXTRAS: • "
How the Supermarket Helped America Win the Cold War (Update) • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).
 • "
The First Great American Industry • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 
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27. The Most Powerful People You’ve Never Heard Of

Licensing began with medicine and law; now it extends to 20 percent of the U.S. workforce, including hair stylists and auctioneers. In a new book, the legal scholar Rebecca Allensworth calls licensing boards “a thicket of self-dealing and ineptitude” and says they keep bad workers in their jobs and good ones out — while failing to protect the public.

 

SOURCES:Rebecca Allensworth • , professor of law at Vanderbilt University.

 

RESOURCES: • "
The Licensing Racket: How We Decide Who Is Allowed to Work, and Why It Goes Wrong • " by Rebecca Allensworth (2025).
 • "
Licensed to Pill, • " by Rebecca Allensworth 
(The New York Review of Books, • 2020).
 • "
Licensing Occupations: Ensuring Quality or Restricting Competition? • " by Morris Kleiner 
(W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research, • 2006).
 • "
How Much of Barrier to Entry is Occupational Licensing? • " by Peter Blair and Bobby Chung 
(British Journal of Industrial Relations, • 2019).

 

EXTRAS: • "
Is Ozempic as Magical as It Sounds? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2024).

 
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26. Is Professional Licensing a Racket?

Adam Moss was the best magazine editor of his generation. When he retired, he took up painting. But he wasn’t very good, and that made him sad. So he wrote a book about how creative people work— and, in the process, he made himself happy again.

 

SOURCE:Adam Moss • , magazine editor and author.

 

RESOURCES:The Work of Art: How Something Comes from Nothing, • by Adam Moss (2024).
 • "
Goodbye, New York. Adam Moss Is Leaving the Magazine He Has Edited for 15 Years • ," by Michael M. Grynbaum (
The New York Times, • 2019).
Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat: Mastering the Elements of Good Cooking, • by Samin Nosrat (2017).

 

EXTRAS: • "
David Simon Is On Strike. Here’s Why • ," by 
People I (Mostly) Admire • (2023).
 • "
Samin Nosrat Always Wanted to Be Famous • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).
 • "
What’s Wrong with Being a One-Hit Wonder? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 
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25. How to Make Something from Nothing

John J. Sullivan, a former State Department official and U.S. ambassador, says yes: “Our politicians aren’t leading — Republicans or Democrats.” He gives a firsthand account of a fateful Biden-Putin encounter, talks about his new book Midnight in Moscow, and predicts what a second Trump term means for Russia, Ukraine, China — and the U.S.

 

SOURCES:John Sullivan • , former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State and former U.S. Ambassador to Russia.

 

RESOURCES:Midnight in Moscow: A Memoir from the Front Lines of Russia's War Against the West, • by John Sullivan (2024).
 • "
The ‘Deathonomics’ Powering Russia’s War Machine • ," by Georgi Kantchev and Matthew Luxmoore (
The Wall Street Journal, • 2024).
War, • by Bob Woodward (2024).
 • "
On the Record: The U.S. Administration’s Actions on Russia • ," by Alina Polyakova and Filippos Letsas (
Brookings, • 2019).
 • "
Why Economic Sanctions Still Do Not Work • ," by Robert A. Pape (
International Security, • 1998).

 

EXTRAS: • "
The Suddenly Diplomatic Rahm Emanuel • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).

 
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24. Is the U.S. Sleeping on Threats from Russia and China?

The economist and social critic Glenn Loury has led a remarkably turbulent life, both professionally and personally. In a new memoir, he has chosen to reveal just about everything. Why?

 

SOURCE:Glenn Loury • , professor of economics at Brown University and host of 
The Glenn Show • .

 

RESOURCES:Late Admissions: Confessions of a Black Conservative, • by Glenn Loury (2024).
 • "
Amy Wax – The DEI Witch Hunt at Penn Law • ," by Glenn Loury (
The Glenn Show, • 2024).
 • "
The Conservative Line on Race • ," by Glenn Loury (
The Atlantic, • 1997).
 • "
Will Affirmative-Action Policies Eliminate Negative Stereotypes? • " by Stephen Coate and Glenn Loury (
The American Economic Review, • 1993).

 

EXTRAS: • "
Roland Fryer Refuses to Lie to Black America • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2022).
 • "
How Much Does Discrimination Hurt the Economy? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2021).
 • "
The Pros and Cons of Reparations • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2020).

 
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23. Confessions of a Black Conservative

From politics and economics to psychology and the arts, many of the modern ideas we take for granted emerged a century ago from a single European capital. In this episode of the Freakonomics Radio Book Club, the historian Richard Cockett explores all those ideas — and how the arrival of fascism can ruin in a few years what took generations to build.

 

SOURCE:Richard Cockett • , author and senior editor at 
The Economist • .

 

RESOURCES:Vienna: How the City of Ideas Created the Modern World, • by Richard Cockett (2023).
 • "
Birth, Death and Shopping • ," (
The Economist, • 2007).
The Hidden Persuaders, • by Vance Packard (1957).
 • "
An Economist's View of 'Planning • ,'" by Henry Hazlitt (
The New York Times, • 1944).
The World of Yesterday: Memoires of a European, • by Stefan Zweig (1942).

 

EXTRA: • "
Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Some Advice for You • ," by 
People I (Mostly) Admire • (2024).

 
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22. How Does the Lost World of Vienna Still Shape Our Lives?

Nobel laureate, bestselling author, and groundbreaking psychologist Daniel Kahneman died in March. In 2021 he talked with Steve Levitt — his friend and former business partner — about his book Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment (cowritten with Olivier Sibony and Cass Sunstein) and much more.

 

SOURCES:Daniel Kahneman • , professor emeritus of psychology and public affairs at Princeton University.

 

RESOURCES:Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment, • by Olivier Sibony, Daniel Kahneman, and Cass R. Sunstein (2021).
Thinking, Fast and Slow, • by Daniel Kahneman (2011).

 

EXTRAS: • "
What’s the Secret to Making a Great Prediction? • " by 
No Stupid Questions • (2021).
 • "
The Men Who Started a Thinking Revolution • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2017).
 • "
How to Be Less Terrible at Predicting the Future • ," by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2016).

 
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EXTRA: Remembering Daniel Kahneman

Fareed Zakaria says yes. But it’s not just political revolution — it’s economic, technological, even emotional. He doesn’t offer easy solutions but he does offer some hope.

 

SOURCES:Fareed Zakaria • , journalist and author.

 

RESOURCES:Age of Revolutions: Progress and Backlash from 1600 to the Present, • by Fareed Zakaria (2024).
 • "
The Ultimate Election Year: All the Elections Around the World in 2024 • ," by Koh Ewe (
TIME, • 2023).
 • "
The Tea Party and the Remaking of Republican Conservatism • ," by Vanessa Williamson, Theda Skocpol, and John Coggin (
Perspectives on Politics, • 2011).
The Post-American World, • by Fareed Zakaria (2008).
The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad, • by Fareed Zakaria (2003).

 

EXTRAS: • "
Is the U.S. Really Less Corrupt Than China? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2021).

 
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

21. Are We Living Through the Most Revolutionary Period in History?

Lewis got incredible access to Sam Bankman-Fried, the billionaire behind the spectacular FTX fraud. His book is a bestseller, but some critics say he went too easy on S.B.F. Lewis tells us why the critics are wrong — and what it’s like to watch your book get turned into a courtroom drama.

 

SOURCES:Michael Lewis • , author.

 

RESOURCES:Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon, • by Michael Lewis (2023).
 • "
Column: In Michael Lewis, Sam Bankman-Fried Found His Last and Most Willing Victim • ," by Michael Hiltzik (
Los Angeles Times, • 2023).
 • "
Even Michael Lewis Can’t Make a Hero Out of Sam Bankman-Fried • ," by Jennifer Szalai (
The New York Times, • 2023).
 • "
Michael Lewis Goes Close on Sam Bankman-Fried — Maybe Too Close • ," by James Ledbetter (
The Washington Post, • 2023).
 • "
What You Won’t Learn From Michael Lewis’ Book on FTX Could Fill Another Book • ," by Julia M. Klein (
Los Angeles Times, • 2023).
 • "
Michael Lewis’s Big Contrarian Bet • ," by Gideon Lewis-Kraus (
The New Yorker, • 2023).
 • "
He-Said, They-Said • ," by John Lanchester (
London Review of Books, • 2023).
 • "
Downfall of the Crypto King • ," by Jesse Armstrong (
The Times Literary Supplement, • 2023).
 • "
FTX Debtors vs. Joseph Bankman and Barbara Fried • ," in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (2023).
Federal Prosecution of Election Offenses: Eighth Edition • , by Richard C. Pilger (2017).
 • "
Pay Candidates to Drop Out? That Should Be Legal • ," by Stephen L. Carter (
Bloomberg, • 2016).
 • "
The History of the Term 'Effective Altruism • ,'" by William MacAskill (
Effective Altruism Forum, • 2014).

 

EXTRAS: • "
Is This 'The Worst Job in Corporate America' — or Maybe the Best? • " by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2023).
 • "
A Million-Year View on Morality • ," by 
People I (Mostly) Admire • (2022).
 • “
Did Michael Lewis Just Get Lucky with 'Moneyball'? • ” by 
Freakonomics Radio • (2022).

 
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20. Why Are People So Mad at Michael Lewis?

Bren Smith, who grew up fishing and fighting, is now part of a movement that seeks to feed the planet while putting less environmental stress on it. He makes his argument in a book called Eat Like a Fish; his secret ingredient: kelp. But don’t worry, you won’t have to eat it (not much, at least). Hosted by Stephen Dubner.

 
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8. Is the Future of Farming in the Ocean?

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