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Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers

An advert free, Weekly digital marketing podcast with listeners in over 180 countries worldwide, The Digital Marketing Podcast combines interviews with global experts,  together with the latest news, tools, strategies and techniques to give your digital marketing the edge.  Perfect for your daily commute, the podcast aims to be both entertaining and informative. Produced by Target Internet and hosted by Digital Marketing and E-commerce Expert, Ciaran Rogers and Award Winning Author and Speaker, Daniel Rowles. Find out more at TargetInternet.com

The Digital Marketing Podcast

AI is accelerating change at a pace most organisations have never had to manage before. For marketers and business leaders, this is not just another wave of innovation. It is a fundamental shift from linear change to exponential change, where familiar planning cycles, transformation programmes, and long-term roadmaps start to break down. In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles is joined by Geoff Tuff, Consulting Principal at Deloitte and co-author of Hone: How Purposeful Leaders Defy Drift. Together, they explore why traditional transformation initiatives fail so often, and what leaders can do instead to build organisations that continuously adapt without losing their sense of direction. Drawing on real-world examples, behavioural science, and lessons from Geofff's latest book, the conversation reframes change as an ongoing discipline rather than a one-off event, and offers a practical way to respond to the disruption created by AI and other exponential forces . In This Episode Why AI represents a shift from linear to exponential change, and why this makes traditional planning models fragile Why large-scale transformation programmes fail so frequently, and the hidden costs they create for organisations The concept of "drift" and how companies slowly move away from their original purpose without realising it The difference between sharpening and honing, and why constant realignment beats radical reinvention How leaders can "bake in" innovation so it becomes urgent, not just important Why behaviour, not technology, is the real engine of change inside organisations The role of management systems as the invisible drivers of culture and decision-making What Minimally Viable Moves are, and how they help organisations adapt without overcommitting Lessons from Amazon and Jeff Bezos on designing systems that reinforce the right behaviours How informal signals from senior leaders can unintentionally shape priorities and outcomes Key Takeaways Exponential change makes waiting for the perfect moment to transform a dangerous strategy Most organisations drift off course through accumulated small decisions, not dramatic failures Honing is about continuous, incremental alignment rather than destructive overhauls Leadership power lies less in vision statements and more in the systems that guide everyday behaviour Small, testable moves reduce risk and keep organisations responsive in uncertain environments What leaders praise, question, or ignore can matter more than formal strategy documents Staying aligned to purpose requires constant attention, not periodic transformation projects 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/dealing-with-exponential-change-leading-in-an-ai-driven-world

Dealing With Exponential Change - Leadership in an AI-Driven World

The generative AI landscape has shifted again, and at speed. In this update episode, Daniel Rowles breaks down a rapid sequence of releases from OpenAI and Google, explaining what has actually changed, what genuinely matters, and how marketers and business leaders should respond. Covering everything from ChatGPT 5.x and Gemini 3 through to image generation breakthroughs, AI-powered apps, and the rise of accessible 'vibe coding', this episode is a practical briefing rather than hype-driven commentary. Daniel focuses on real-world capability, usability, and where these tools are already changing how marketing teams work, build, and analyse. Rather than asking which model is "winning", the episode reframes the question around task-based selection. Different tools now excel at different jobs, from coding and image editing to workflow automation and reporting. Understanding those strengths is quickly becoming a competitive advantage In This Episode How the AI model race intensified between OpenAI and Google at the beginning of 2026 What actually changed with ChatGPT 5.1 and 5.2, beyond the headline claims Why Gemini 3 represents a major leap in reasoning and coding capability How image generation tools have crossed a new threshold in photorealism and editing What Nano Banana Pro means for branded, on-style visual creation Why ChatGPT connectors becoming "apps" is more important than it sounds How tools like Canva, Adobe, and Figma now integrate directly into AI workflows What vibe coding really is, and why it matters for non-technical marketers How canvas mode transforms the way code, content, and interfaces are created Why AI-powered browsers and agent modes could redefine reporting and analysis Key Takeaways No single AI model is best at everything, and choosing by task is now essential Image editing and brand-consistent visuals are becoming dramatically more accessible Marketers can now create interactive tools and content without traditional development AI-assisted coding is shifting from novelty to practical everyday use Workflow automation and reporting are emerging as some of the biggest wins Understanding interfaces and deployment matters as much as model intelligence 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/generative-ai-update-what-the-latest-model-wars-mean-for-marketers

Generative AI Update - What the Latest Model Wars Mean for Marketers

Search is changing fast. With AI overviews now appearing in the majority of Google results, the rules of visibility are being rewritten in real time. In this episode, Daniel Rowles explores what answer engine optimisation actually means in practice, and how marketers can adapt without chasing myths, hacks, or constantly shifting theories. Drawing on real testing from Target Internet over the past year, this episode cuts through the noise around GEO, AEO, and SEO to focus on what genuinely works. The result is a practical framework for improving visibility both in traditional organic search and within AI-powered results, particularly Google's AI overviews. If you are worried about falling click-through rates, changing user behaviour, or how large language models decide what to reference, this episode provides clear, grounded guidance. Rather than treating AI search as a black box to be cracked, Daniel reframes it as a probability system influenced by clarity, credibility, and consistency. The five techniques covered here are designed to future-proof your content strategy while still delivering value to real users today. In This Episode Why the industry cannot agree on GEO vs AEO, and why the distinction matters less than you think What current data tells us about AI overviews, click-through rates, and changing search behaviour How question-led content aligns with the way people now search using AI Why inverted pyramid writing is suddenly more important than ever How digital PR and brand mentions influence entity reputation in AI systems The growing role of advocacy, reviews, and online sentiment in visibility Why multimodal content is becoming a core ranking signal, not a nice-to-have How schema markup removes ambiguity for search engines and large language models Where to focus your effort while Google's AI results are still evolving rapidly Key Takeaways Answer engine optimisation overlaps heavily with traditional SEO, so doubling down on fundamentals is still smart Clear, direct answers to specific questions improve your chances of being referenced by AI Brand visibility is no longer just about links, but about being mentioned in the right contexts Positive sentiment and third-party validation increasingly influence AI recommendations Publishing content in multiple formats strengthens your overall search footprint Structured data helps machines understand your content, and humans engage with it more easily 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/answer-engine-optimisation-aeo-how-to-optimise-for-google-ai-overviews

Answer Engine Optimisation (AEO) - How to Optimise for Google AI Overviews

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles speaks with Phil Treagus-Evans, author of the new book Human First Marketing, to explore why now, in a world dominated by AI, automation, and synthetic content, marketers must rediscover their humanity. As generative AI reshapes how content is produced, and digital channels become flooded with bland, algorithmically generated material, brands risk losing the very thing that makes them relatable: their people. Phil offers a timely and practical guide for putting humans back at the heart of your marketing strategy, from customer research to team culture and executive presence. Drawing on his work at Giraffe Social, Phil breaks down a four-part framework for building trust, fostering connection, and standing out in a sea of sameness. If you've ever felt like your content is just noise, or you're posting because you're "supposed to", this episode will help you hit reset. In This Episode: Marketing isn't working like it used to Phil opens with a bold claim, and backs it up with data on ad saturation, trust erosion, and content homogenisation due to AI. What is Human First Marketing? A new approach that prioritises people over platforms, empathy over efficiency, and purpose over vanity metrics. The four pillars of Human First Marketing People: Deep customer understanding and employee advocacy Authenticity: Real voices and honest content Connection: Interactions over transactions Purpose: Strategy that means something — and gets results Why you should ditch customer avatars Phil introduces his EMPATH framework for audience research that avoids reductive stereotypes and leans into emotional understanding, patterns of behaviour, and real team insight. The power of visibility and vulnerability From CEOs posting on LinkedIn to sharing the full journey of writing his book, Phil explains how authenticity builds trust, and drives results. Why trust is the new marketing currency In an era of deepfakes and automated outreach, being seen as real, consistent and trustworthy is the ultimate competitive edge. AI isn't the enemy, lazy AI is Phil and Daniel agree: AI is a fantastic tool, but it's the human decisions around how, when and why we use it that matter most. How Human First Marketing improves SEO As Google leans into E-E-A-T (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, Trust), human-centred content becomes not just ethical, but algorithmically rewarded. Key Takeaways: Human content performs better - Whether it's lo-fi video or founder-led storytelling, people trust people more than brands. Leaders must be visible - Exec comms and internal advocacy aren't optional anymore, they're how culture scales and trust grows. Culture comes first - You can't fake authenticity. If your team doesn't believe in what you do, neither will your audience. Strategy before content - Don't just post because you should. Post with intent, empathy, and impact. There's power in transparency - Sharing your struggles, your processes, and your people builds emotional equity. Use AI as a creative partner - Not a content machine. Challenge your thinking, spark ideas, don't outsource your voice. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/human-first-marketing-why-trust-purpose-and-people-matter-more-than-ever

Human First Marketing - Why Trust, Purpose and People Matter More Than Ever

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers dive into one of the most significant shifts in digital marketing: the rise of non keyword signals and what it means for search, privacy, and the future of campaign targeting. With AI-powered ad platforms like Google's AI Max and social algorithms driven by behavioural data rather than search intent, the old model of keyword-driven marketing is rapidly giving way to something more opaque, more personalised, and potentially more invasive. Daniel and Ciaran explore how AI systems now use a vast array of signals, from your browsing patterns and email content to your location history and viewing habits, to anticipate what you might want before you even search. But what does this mean for marketers who've spent years honing their SEO and PPC strategies? And what does it mean for user privacy in a world where your chatbot conversations may be fuelling ad targeting? In This Episode: What are non keyword signals? Understand how platforms like Google and Meta are using behaviour, context and historical activity instead of just search terms. Why your impressions are up but clicks are down Learn how AI summaries in Google Search are reducing organic click-throughs, even when your rankings are strong. AI Max campaigns and keywordless targeting Discover how Google Ads is shifting towards AI-led campaigns that rely on intent and engagement signals rather than keyword triggers , and why some brands are seeing 20–30% uplift as a result. What Meta's CMO said about disconnected content Hear how Alex Schultz explained the shift from connected (likes, follows) to disconnected content (Reels, Stories, Shorts), and what that means for social strategy. Privacy concerns and grey areas Explore the implications of Meta's new terms allowing AI chat interactions to inform ad targeting, and whether AI chat data could be inadvertently shared or commercialised. Real-world scenario: Chatbots used for lead capture Daniel raises a powerful example, what if you offered a free AI chatbot to other brands, then harvested user intent data for your own ad targeting? Platform security, data visibility and agent risks From OneDrive access errors to AI agents managing your logins, the hosts discuss the human errors that AI amplifies, and the need for robust security practices. Key Takeaways: We're entering a post-keyword era Platforms are using AI to interpret intent through broader, richer data sources, including chat behaviour, video viewing and app usage. Organic traffic is being cannibalised by AI summaries Even if your visibility improves, actual user clicks may continue to decline. Privacy risks are growing Terms and conditions are changing, and conversations with AI tools may no longer be as private as they seem. Marketing teams must audit how they use AI Understand what data your AI tools are accessing and how that data could be used, now and in the future. Join the conversation This isn't just a podcast - it's an open debate. Daniel and Ciaran want your input, and they're giving away prizes, books and merch to contributors. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/the-big-debate-non-keyword-signals-ai-chats-privacy Join the debate: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7403862051749564417

The Big Debate: Non Keyword Signals - AI Chats & Privacy

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles introduces us to the process of Vibe Coding, a revolutionary approach to software development that leverages AI to make app creation accessible to anyone, regardless of coding experience. Vibe coding shifts the focus from writing manual code to guiding AI with natural language prompts, allowing non-developers to build interactive apps, tools, and even businesses. Daniel explores the three tiers of vibe coding, from basic one-page web apps to full-scale, secure, AI-powered platforms , and shares practical steps, tools and security tips to get started. The second half of the episode features a compelling interview with Christo Snyman, a podcast listener who used vibe coding to launch his AI assistant platform Traderly.ai. Christo takes us behind the scenes of building a real-world startup with no prior coding background, sharing his full tech stack, hard-earned lessons, and the mindset needed to succeed. In This Episode: What is Vibe Coding? Understand how natural language prompts can now be used to create working code, dramatically lowering the barrier to digital creation. The Three Levels of Vibe Coding Level 1: Build one-page apps using HTML, CSS, and React, no backend required Level 2: Add memory, interactivity, and live AI responses through API access Level 3: Create fully-fledged apps with user authentication, databases, and deployment Practical Use Cases - From interactive Google algorithm timelines to embedded AI tools for keyword research and content planning, Daniel shares how these tools are being used on Target Internet's own website. Christo's Journey - From Idea to Startup. Learn how Christo turned a common business pain point — small service businesses missing leads due to message overload — into a scalable SaaS platform. Discover his full tech stack including React, Azure Functions, PostgreSQL, Firebase, OpenAI, WordPress, and more. Key Takeaways: Anyone can now build apps using AI tools, whether it's a timeline, calculator, chatbot, or full customer-facing product. AI-assisted development removes fear and unlocks creativity, especially for entrepreneurs without a dev background. Start small and iterate, your Minimal Viable Product doesn't need to be perfect, it needs to be useful. Vibe coding is the bridge between ideas and execution - fast, flexible and increasingly powerful. The future of marketing and tech creation is conversational and it's already here. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/vibe-coding-how-ai-is-revolutionising-app-development-and-empowering-non-coders 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

Vibe Coding - How AI is Revolutionising App Development and Empowering Non-Coders

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles is joined by Matthew Gardiner from World Travel Market for a special look at how the user journey is being radically reshaped, and why the travel industry offers a powerful lens for understanding the broader changes all marketers now face. From AI-powered search and agents, to disconnected content ecosystems, collapsing funnels, and new expectations for sustainability and meaning, the way users discover, evaluate, and buy has shifted. Whether you work in travel or not, this episode delivers insight into how to adapt your digital strategy for a fragmented, AI-enhanced, and purpose-driven customer journey. In This Episode: Why AI is collapsing the funnel Users no longer move in a straight line from awareness to action. Conversations with AI agents like ChatGPT are replacing multi-step journeys. Whoever owns the AI conversation, owns the customer. From connected to disconnected content The shift from traditional, connected social feeds to short-form, algorithmically driven discovery (Reels, TikToks, Shorts) has changed how we build awareness and trust. AI Overviews and Answer Engine Optimisation With 55% of Google searches now including AI summaries, Daniel explains why SEO alone is not enough and how Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO) and Answer Engine Optimisation (AEO) are the new battlegrounds. Agents are doing the work From itinerary planning to automated bookings, AI agents are reshaping how users interact with brands, often bypassing websites altogether. The new role of structured data Matthew shares how travel brands must now treat structured markup (schema) as a new kind of distribution, ensuring they are machine-readable to AI systems. Why user testing must change Daniel explains why marketers must rethink usability testing to account for personalised algorithms, behaviour-based ad targeting, and AI-powered search. Brand loyalty as a survival tactic In an age of disintermediation, programmes like Bonvoy are keeping users loyal through gamification and exclusive benefits, offering lessons for all industries. Content strategy for the AI era From FAQs and multilingual support to video answers and UGC, the path to visibility is paved with granular, high-quality, human-first content. Industry Case Study: Travel Through a detailed conversation with Matthew Gardiner, the episode explores how the travel industry has continually adapted to disruption. From the rise of OTAs and TripAdvisor to today's challenges around AI agents, soft adventure trends, live tourism, and sustainability expectations, travel may be the canary in the coal mine but its lessons are highly applicable to every sector. Key Takeaways: AI is not just changing how people search; it is rewriting how people trust, book, and choose. Being mentioned in AI conversations is the new SEO. Structured data and FAQ-rich content are your ticket in. Agents now do things, not just recommend. Optimising for transactions and post-click experience is vital. Loyalty schemes, brand identity, and customer advocacy matter more than ever to bypass AI's generic results. Usability testing must reflect real, personalised experiences, not idealised lab setups. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/the-changing-user-journey-lessons-from-the-travel-industry 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

The Changing User Journey - Lessons from the Travel Industry in the Age of AI

In this special episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles sits down with Alex Schultz, Meta's Chief Marketing Officer and Vice President of Analytics, to unpack the future of digital marketing, and why the fundamentals still matter more than ever. Alex shares lessons from his remarkable journey: from running the world's top paper airplane website to leading growth at Meta, managing multi-billion dollar ad campaigns, and now authoring the industry-defining book Click Here. With high-profile endorsements from Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Daniel Ek, and Matthew Vaughn, the book has already gettimg rave reviews, and Daniel is putting it straight onto the reading list for his students at Imperial College. Together, Daniel and Alex dig into the core principles of great marketing: how to set meaningful goals, measure true impact, build high-performance teams, and embrace AI without losing your strategic edge. In This Episode: Why Alex wrote Click Here and why the industry desperately needed a book that gets back to fundamentals, marketing measurement, and pride in the profession. The power of incrementality: How to run meaningful tests, avoid vanity metrics, and prove real value to your CEO and CFO. Why goals are not the same as metrics and how mixing them up can derail your marketing efforts. The importance of awareness: Why most businesses fail because people simply don't know they exist. Marketing mix matters: How one newspaper mention outperformed every digital channel—and why the basics still beat the buzz. Mediocre marketing + great conversion = success: Why broken funnels kill campaigns, no matter how brilliant your creative is. How Meta builds defensible growth : What sets their marketing apart, from deep integration with product and engineering, to AI-powered insights. AI's real impact on marketing jobs: A breakdown of the three kinds of disruption AI will bring, and why the marketers who embrace it will thrive. Paper planes, transparency, and unexpected beginnings: Hear how Alex's nerdy hobby turned into a viral website, and why he publicly shares his university grades to inspire others. Key Takeaways: Get back to basics: Clear goals, good data, and fundamental models (like the funnel) still win. Measure what matters: Metrics are not goals - incrementality is everything. Focus on defensibility and scale in your marketing channels, don't waste time on things that can't grow. AI won't replace marketers - marketers who use AI will replace those who don't. Be transparent and human: Success doesn't require perfection, it requires clarity, curiosity, and continuous learning. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/alex-schultz-interview-click-here 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

The Meta CMO Interview - Digital Marketing Measurement, AI & Why the Basics Still Matter

Far beyond a productivity hack or sustainability trend, the regenerative mindset offers marketers and leaders a framework to design work, creativity and impact that helps build value. You'll have to listen to find out about the Goose! Drawing from systems thinking and marketing strategy, Daniel and Ciaran challenge the "hustle at all costs" mentality and instead champion a more humane, resilient and adaptable approach to digital marketing. In This Episode: What is a Regenerative Mindset? Understand the key difference between sustainability and regeneration - why one aims to sustain the status quo and the other aims to restore, replenish, and grow. Rethinking Productivity and Growth Explore why traditional productivity models are failing marketers in the age of AI, information overload, and fragmented attention, and what to do instead. AI as a Regenerative Tool Rather than using AI to do more, faster, Daniel and Ciaran explore how AI can help reduce cognitive burden, fuel creativity, and foster experimentation when used mindfully. Designing Regenerative Marketing Systems Discover how regenerative principles, such as reciprocity, interdependence, and feedback loops, can help build more sustainable, and effective marketing strategies. Tools, Mindsets and Micro-practices From digital decluttering to reflective learning and systems thinking, the hosts share practical approaches to integrating regeneration into your professional life. Key Takeaways: Regeneration is not about working less, it's about working in flow with better results and less burnout Marketers must go beyond campaign thinking and start designing ecosystems of value and renewal Rest, reflection and curiosity are not luxuries, they're strategic assets A regenerative mindset helps you lead through complexity and adapt with clarity The future of digital marketing isn't just AI or data, it's resilience, systems thinking, and human-centred creativity. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/regenerative-marketing-mindset-reimagining-marketing-and-leadership 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

Regenerative Marketing - The Goose That Thought it was a Chicken!

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, hosts Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers return with a fresh round of insights and hands-on tools to help digital marketers adapt and experiment in the evolving AI-driven marketing landscape. From Google's AI Max campaigns to the explosion of generative engine optimisation, Daniel and Ciaran unpack the shifts happening across search, paid media, and SEO. This isn't just another roundup of shiny tools, this episode explores how to think strategically about the role of AI in search, the real impact on your organic performance, and the mindset required to stay ahead of the curve. What's Inside This Episode: AI Max Campaigns in Google Ads Discover how Google's new AI-powered campaign structure is changing the game. It's not just another bidding strategy, it's an integrated layer that leverages keywordless signals, context, and user behaviour across Google properties to personalise campaigns. Learn why separating these into siloed budgets might actually hinder performance and what you need to consider before rolling out. The Vanishing Organic Click While impressions are up, clicks are down. Daniel shares Target Internet's own data showing a drop in organic click-through rates and explains why Google's AI-generated answers, Reddit posts, and video content are pushing traditional organic listings further down the page. LLM Refs and the New SEO Frontier With AI overviews, ChatGPT, and other LLMs becoming key discovery engines, how do you make sure your brand shows up? The hosts explore LLMRefs, a tool that shows how different brands are ranking across major AI models, and reveal just how fragmented and competitive this new landscape is. Structured Data, Schema & the Knowledge Graph Daniel and Ciaran highlight the importance of schema markup and entity relationships in Google's Knowledge Graph, using tools like the Knowledge Graph Explorer to demonstrate how Google perceives your brand and its connections. If you're not surfacing in the right contexts, it could just be due to a missing link, literally. Search Engine Optimization ≠ Generative Engine Optimization The hosts challenge the idea that SEO principles remain unchanged in the world of AI. With so many variables, location, devices, user intent, history, and model-specific behavior, your approach needs to be more agile and nuanced than ever. Key Takeaways: Performance Max and AI Max are now core to Google Ads - understanding signals and context is essential Organic traffic is declining, but impressions may still rise - CTR is the new battleground You can't game the system anymore with a few smart keywords; LLMs require strong content, schema, and reputation The tools are out there - you just need to experiment, validate, and iterate Don't fall into the trap of "a little knowledge" - simplifying complex changes leads to bad decisions AI models aren't clairvoyant - you need to structure and declare your content clearly 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/tips-and-tools-special 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

Tools and Tips Special - Navigating AI Search, Ads & SEO in 2025

We are back with part two of our Digital Marketing Trends episode to celebrate out 400th episode realease! In this continuation episode, we discuss the rise of AI in search engines, the challenges and opportunities it presents for marketers and the importance of brand personality in an increasingly automated world. We also dive into the shift towards first-party data and email marketing as vital success factors, and using LinkedIn's new Business Manager features to help optimise your B2B marketing efforts. -- Show notes: https://targetinternet.com/resources/inbound-recap-and-latest-digital-marketing-trends-part-two Have any feedback on the show? Send us your feedback, tell us what you love and what you think could be better. And, if you are really enjoying the show, please leave us a review.

Inbound 2024 Recap and Latest Digital Marketing Trends (Part. 2)

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