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David Runciman and Catherine Carr


Coronavirus! Climate! Brexit! Trump! Politics has never been more unpredictable, more alarming or more interesting: Talking Politics is the podcast that tries to make sense of it all. Every week David Runciman and Helen Thompson talk to the most interesting people around about the ideas and events that shape our world: from history to economics, from philosophy to fiction. What does the future hold? 

Can democracy survive? How crazy will it get? This is the political conversation that matters.


Talking Politics is brought to you in partnership with the London Review of Books, Europe's leading magazine of books and ideas.


TALKING POLITICS

David and Helen talk to the philosopher Michael Sandel about the damage that the idea of rewarding people on merit has done to education, democracy and public life. Why is it wrong to try to match the best students to the best universities? What is credentialism and how has it warped the way work is rewarded? Whatever happened to the idea of the common good? Plus we discuss America's sense of itself as God's chosen nation in the age of Obama and Trump.

Talking Points:

Places like Stanford and Harvard have more than 40,000 applicants for 2,000 places. Most of these applicants are qualified.

 • Michael thinks that universities should admit students based on a lottery.
 • The meritocratic way of thinking about success and social recognition has produced and intensified an epidemic of credentialism. 
 • Should elite universities function as arbiters of opportunity?
 • Even going to university hasn’t delivered what people expected. 
 • How do we translate what we can see is socially and morally wrong about our society into a different way of economically living?

For decades, we have been told that the solution to inequality is individual upward mobility through higher education.

 • The ‘rhetoric of rising’ has run its course.
 • How do we affirm and renew the dignity of work?

What kind of jobs has the shift towards credentialism encouraged?

 • There’s a concentration around law and finance, as well as public sector or public administration jobs.
 • The financialism of the economy is an important part of this story.
 • The divide between winners and losers has deepend.
 • It’s not just inequality: the people on top believe that their success is their own doing.
 • Michael thinks that the sense of elites looking down on the less credentialed has fueled the anger and resentment that authoritarian populists have exploited.
 • Could automation displace credentialism?

The money people make, or the recognition they receive, is not a measure of their contribution to the common good.

 • It’s easy to outsource this kind of moral judgment to markets, but Michael thinks that’s a mistake.
 • Can we reconfigure the economy to bring about a better alignment between the contributions people make and the rewards and recognition they receive?
 • The pandemic has revealed the importance of jobs that are hugely undervalued, particularly forms of human care. 

There has been a structural, material transformation in Western economies since the 1980s that has gone hand and hand with the rise of credentialism and financialisation.

 • Industrial manufacturing employment has gone overseas.
 • We are nostalgic about an age that no longer exists, including the role of trade unions, which had power in part because they could disrupt the economy through strikes.

What happened to the nation as a source of identity and belonging?

 • The United States is a providential nation; the same forces of meritocracy can be at work at the national level.
 • Is it possible to challenge the sense of providence in American democracy?

Mentioned in this Episode:

Michael Sandel, The Tyranny of MeritThomas Wolfe, You Can’t Go Home Again

Further Learning:

Michael in the Guardian: ‘The populist backlash has been a...

Michael Sandel on the Case Against Meritocracy

David interviews Lord (Maurice) Glasman - Labour peer, academic, and architect of ‘Blue Labour’ – for his predictions on the outcome of 2015, the future of the Labour Party, and what modern politicians can learn from Wolf Hall. The team then give their forecasts for the Election and scrutinise this week’s political events. For more information about this episode and others go to http://www.cam.ac.uk/podcasts/election

S01-EP01 - Maurice Glasman on democracy, creative destruction and Wolf Hall

How can we reconcile short-term politics with the long-term global problems we face? Should scientists wield more political power? Is it fair to criticise politicians for faults in our political system, or is it our failing? Or is democracy itself to blame? David puts these questions to Lord (Martin) Rees – cosmologist, Astronomer Royal, and former President of the Royal Society – and someone who believes that mankind only has a 50% chance of making it through this century without a serious global “setback”. The team then debate this week’s political events. Posted 18/2/15. For more information about this episode and others go to http://www.cam.ac.uk/podcasts/election

S01-EP02 - Martin Rees on surviving this century, scientists in politics, and 2015

David asks Martin Jacques – journalist, academic, and author of the bestseller When China Rules the World – if this election matters in global terms. Will the transformation of China overshadow short-term political events in Britain and Europe? How does China adapt in the absence of democratic elections? Is it possible for our politicians to successfully supervise Britain’s steady decline? The team also discuss the week’s political events. Posted 25/2/15. For more information about this episode and others go to http://www.cam.ac.uk/podcasts/election

S01-EP03 - Martin Jacques on the global perspective, Britain’s decline, & China’s rise

Could Facebook really decide the outcome of this election? Is the Internet a positive force for democracy? Why is global surveillance, as unveiled by Edward Snowden, not an electoral issue? We put these questions to Prof John Naughton – author of A Brief History of the Future and early advocate of the Internet’s power to change the world – and ask if politicians are tuned-in to the transformative potential of social media. Putting cynicism to one side, the team then give their good-points about the General Election so far. Posted 4/3/15. For more information about this episode and others go to http://www.cam.ac.uk/podcasts/election

S01-EP04 - John Naughton on Facebook in Politics, Edward Snowden, & Surveillance

Will the United Kingdom stay together? What have England’s politicians got wrong that Scotland’s have got right? Which had the greater impact on the Scottish Independence Referendum result – people’s views of the past, or of a possible future? We put these questions to the historian and documentary-presenter Clare Jackson, whose widely acclaimed BBC series on the Stuart dynasty was broadcast in the run-up to Referendum last year. The team then discuss the potential impact of Scotland in the upcoming election, and the legacy of a vote that saw the highest electoral turnout in over 60 years. Posted 11/3/15. For more information about this episode and others go to http://www.cam.ac.uk/podcasts/election

S01-EP05 - Clare Jackson on the United Kingdom, Scotland & the politics of memory

What constitutes hate speech? Does the Press do more harm than good in our democracy? When should words become the government’s business? We put these questions to Professor Rae Langton – award-winning philosopher and the world’s ‘fourth most influential woman thinker’ – and discuss whether free speech can ever be reconciled with a need to suppress hateful voices. The team then discuss the fallout of Ed Miliband’s ‘second kitchen’, whether politicians can – or should – keep their families out of the media spotlight, and the lessons from the Israeli election result. Posted 18/3/15

S01-EP06 - Rae Langton on Charlie Hebdo, free speech vs hate speech & blasphemy

Could Margaret Thatcher have won this election? How would the Iron Lady have handled UKIP? Who would win more seats in 2015 – her or David Cameron? In a special episode featuring remarkable research, we put these questions to Michael Howard, former Conservative Leader and member of Mrs Thatcher’s Cabinet, and Stephan Shakespeare, founder of the polling firm YouGov. Other insights include the untold story of how polling impacted the Westminster vote for the Iraq War, why Cameron was wrong to rule out a third-term in office, and the only thing that Michael Howard and Gordon Brown agree upon. Posted 25/3/15

S01-EP07 - SPECIAL: Michael Howard & Stephan Shakespeare on Margaret Thatcher, the true power of polls, and the impact of UKIP in 2015

What makes our politics uniquely ‘British’? Why is there no English Independence Party? How did the NHS become a sacred cow? And will Britannia ever rule the waves again? David puts these questions to Professor Robert Tombs – historian and author of a new epic history of England – to discover the impact of culture and foreign affairs on British political life. The team also review David Cameron and Ed Miliband’s favourite books, the pros and cons of the fixed-term Parliament, the neglected but extraordinary Nigerian election, and what to expect between now and polling day. Posted 1/4/15

S01-EP08 - Robert Tombs on Britishness, Britain's place in Europe & the NHS

It is said that trust in politics is at an all-time low. Our politicians are seen as out of touch and out to fill their own pockets. But when does mistrust become something more profound? This week we discuss this phenomenon in its most extreme form: conspiracy theories. What conspiracy theories do the British public believe? How commonplace are they, and how have they spread? Are people really so wrong to believe that the world is run by a secret elite? We interview a team of Cambridge researchers for answers. Then David turns to Professor Simon Szreter - social historian and founder of ‘History & Policy’ - to discuss how academics are trying to find ways of restoring the public’s faith in politics, and bridge the gap between the politicians’ narrow view of the world and how the voters see it. The team also discuss the television debates, politicians’ use (and abuse) of facts and figures, Tony Blair, and UKIP’s strategy for electoral success. Posted 8/4/15

S01-EP09 - Simon Szreter on conspiracy theories, trust in politics & solutions

In this election the economy has been centre stage - we know what the politicians think, but what about the business community? Are the fortunes of British business rising or falling? Can the UK economy really compete with the likes of China and the US? How can our education system prepare the next generation for the global marketplace? David puts these questions to Sherry Coutu - one of this country’s most respected entrepreneurs and investors - to discuss the relationship between business, technology, and government. The team also debate whether democracies can grapple with complex economic problems; plus first-past-the-post in multi-party elections, the fate of the Liberal Democrats, and in light of this week’s election result in Finland, our tendency to idolise Nordic politics. Posted 22/4/15

S01-EP11 - Sherry Coutu on education, stimulating business & coalitions

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