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Higher Ground

Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso is a weekly series of intimate conversations with artists, authors, and politicians. Where people sound like people. Hosted by Sam Fragoso. New episodes every Sunday.

Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso

“I get calls from people inside of some of the AI labs,” says technology ethicist Tristan Harris. “And it feels like getting a call from Robert Oppenheimer before the atomic bomb.” 

Harris (a former Google insider and AI expert) has spent more than a decade sounding the alarm about the effects of technology on our wellbeing. He’s currently the co-founder of Center for Humane Technology, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to align technology with humanity’s best interests.

In light of Anthropic whistleblower Jacob Coxon’s recent resignation (0:45), which has since been echoed by Dario Amodei (Anthropic), Sam Altman (OpenAI), and Elon Musk (1:30), we wanted to represent our prescient conversation with Harris from this spring. 

We discuss The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist (6:30), how AI has developed over the past ten years (10:12), why the most powerful figures in tech are preparing for doomsday scenarios (13:15), the AI arms race underway (15:45), the ‘balance sheet of benefits’ that shapes Silicon Valley’s thinking around AGI (24:30) and the unsettling lack of control being exercised over their own nascent systems (33:55).

On the back-half, we talk about Chat GPT’s role in the devastating death of teenager Adam Raine (40:30) [content warning], Tristan’s early ethical concerns about technology as a Stanford graduate working at Google (48:34), and the rewiring he attempted as part of the widely-seen 2020 documentary The Social Dilemma (53:00). To close, Harris outlines his tech safety practices to protect our future on the planet (1:08:05), top leaders’ prognostications of (p)doom at the hands of AI (1:10:43), and, as a counter, the ‘human movement’ that he believes can lead us to a narrow path toward a better future (1:17:30).

Original air date: March 29, 2026

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Can We Avoid AI Catastrophe? (with Tech Ethicist Tristan Harris)

These days Nick Offerman appears to be one of the few remaining men who enjoys “making things rather than destroying things.” Career-best performances, best-selling books, a wooden, cedar-strip canoe built out of his Los Angeles Offerman Woodshop. Nick does what he can (and then some).

He joins us this week on the heels of his double Emmy nominations to talk through his emotionally complex performance in Margo’s Got Money Troubles, its connection to his past (8:48), and the range of projects born from his tendency to keep busy (13:10). Then, we turn to the words of the late, beloved poet Wendell Berry (15:35), Offerman’s rural upbringing in Illinois (16:45), and his timely role in the crime thriller Sovereign (26:55)

On the back-half, we talk about masculinity in America (30:35), Ben Shapiro’s vexing response to Offerman’s Emmy-winning turn in The Last of Us (40:52), what Parks and Recreation symbolizes to its fans, new and old (56:00), and why he believes “if you can finish your day having offered more flowers than you’ve stepped on… that’s a good goal” (1:05:40).

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It’s Time to Give Nick Offerman (‘Parks and Recreation’) His Flowers

Rest in peace to writer and activist Gloria Steinem.

The trajectory of Steinem’s life and work was unparalleled. Her cultural and political impact, incalculable. We sat to discuss the life-altering procedure she had completed at age 22, why she helped create the women's liberation movement alongside Dorothy Pitman Hughes and Flo Kennedy, and how she learned to become angry—on her own behalf—about race and gender bias throughout America.

Original air date: December 15, 2019

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Play It Again: Gloria Steinem

With the fall movie season upon us, who better to sit with than ⁠The Big Picture⁠ co-hosts Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins?

We begin with a post-vacation check-in (2:38), the god-given gifts of Ben Affleck and Jacob Elordi (6:19), and the latest film from “influencer” Ridley Scott (7:05).

Then we move on to our fall movie preview/draft, highlighting Jordan Firstman’s Club Kid (19:25), Julianne Moore in The Debut (21:39), Robert Pattinson in Primetime (26:12), and new films from directors Alejandro G. Iñárritu (32:37), David Fincher (36:24), James Gray (42:37), and Danny Boyle (58:00). Plus, two personal, familial projects in Once Upon a Time in Harlem (50:51) and The Making of Marie Antoinette (49:11).

On the back-half, we talk all things The Big Picture: Sean and Amanda’s New York origin story (1:01:39), moving to Los Angeles to launch The Ringer (1:12:22), the call from Bill Simmons that brought this duo together (1:12:36), the power of the Dob Mob (1:17:44), and the ongoing race for the show’s third chair, featuring Chris Ryan (1:23:02) and Tracy Letts (1:27:30). We also discuss Sean’s Mount Rushmore of dream guests (1:30:36), the movie he’d most like to do on The Rewatchables (1:34:06), ChatGPT Ebert (1:34:34), the role of AI in film and media (1:35:33), the contemporary challenges of making good work in a “crumbling industry” (1:38:44), and why this show—and this pair—continue to work after nearly a thousand episodes (1:45:39).

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The Fall Movie Preview (with Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins of ‘The Big Picture’)

From “The Good Place” and “Barry” to “A League of Their Own” and “The Five-Star Weekend,” D’Arcy Carden has become one of the most recognizable and beloved performers on television.

We sit to discuss her Bay Area upbringing (6:33), moving to New York to pursue acting (16:05), and finding her community in long-form improv at UCB (21:08). Then, she reflects on the day jobs that kept her afloat—including babysitting Bill Hader’s kids (24:53), watching friends around her begin to break through (29:54), and what kept her from submitting an application for SNL (35:08).

On the back-half, Carden revisits “The Good Place” audition that changed her life (42:49), the pressure she felt on set (51:34), and an enduring piece of advice from her co-star Ted Danson (56:48). To close, we talk about the joy and heartbreak of “A League of Their Own” (58:37), the future of Hollywood (1:01:50), and why, after reaching her wildest dreams, she hopes to keep acting forever (1:10:08).

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In ‘The Good Place’ with D’Arcy Carden

Novelist Colson Whitehead is one of only a handful of writers to win the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction twice—first for The Underground Railroad in 2017, and again for The Nickel Boys in 2020. He joins us on the heels of his latest novel, Cool Machine, the final installment of his acclaimed Harlem trilogy.

We begin with his decision to close out the world of furniture dealer Ray Carney (3:00), why Whitehead felt compelled to keep returning to 125th and Morningside (7:30), and the artistic influences that shaped him as a teenager (14:15). Then, we walk through the personal scenes chronicled in Sag Harbor (15:15), the horror movies that eventually led to Zone One (17:38), and how his latest protagonist’s story unfolds alongside a New York City perpetually destroying and reinventing itself (21:48).

On the back-half, Whitehead reflects on finding his voice as a young writer (31:30), why he “had no choice” but to write his debut novel, The Intuitionist (38:20), and teaching at Princeton alongside the late Toni Morrison (41:05). To close, we discuss the uncertain future of reading (44:55), the specter of AI (48:35), Zohran Mamdani’s first eight months as mayor (51:50), his love letter and elegy to the city after September 11 (55:00), and why, after more than a dozen books, writing still makes him feel a little more whole (1:03:00).

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Novelist Colson Whitehead’s New York State of Mind

What if it’s true that good things come to those who wait?

For Greta Lee, the success of Past Lives came after twenty years of working and finding her way as an actor. Her latest, leading turns come in The Last House and Late Fame.

We begin with Late Fame (4:12) and her larger-than-life character, inspired in part by artists like Isabella Rossellini, Marlene Dietrich, and Liza Minnelli (6:37). Then, Lee reflects on her upbringing as the daughter of Korean immigrants (12:20), translating for her parents at an early age (13:10), the sacrifices made by her doctor father and artist mother (16:05), and the high school experience that first made her question where she belonged (22:37).

On the back-half, we walk through Lee’s lean years in New York (29:35), the restaurant job that kept her afloat (32:00), and the rejection and financial stress of trying to make a living as an actor (34:55). Then, we talk about how motherhood changed her relationship to identity and representation (41:12), before returning to the miracle of Past Lives (52:10)—from her first days on set to the film’s emotional Sundance premiere (57:20), her mother’s profound connection to the story (1:03:45), and what Greta has learned about finally owning her own story (1:08:20).

The Last House is now available to stream on Netflix. Late Fame is in theaters, expanding nationally on August 14th.

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The ‘Past Lives’ of Actor Greta Lee

Nine years ago, cook and writer Samin Nosrat created a kitchen staple with Salt Fat Acid Heat: a New York Times bestseller that later became a hit Netflix series. Last fall, Nosrat returned with Good Things, a collection of personal recipes straight from her dining table.

Today, we revisit that candid conversation, where we discussed the influences that shaped the book (8:30), the ephemerality (and pleasure) of produce (9:30), her complicated San Diego childhood growing up with Iranian parents (17:30), the high expectations placed before her (22:40), and how she eventually found her way to Chez Panisse in Berkeley (32:00).

On the back-half, Samin talked about her salad days working in restaurants (46:00), grand openings and closings (42:30), the origins of Salt Fat Acid Heat (47:00), what The Bear gets right about cooking (1:00:25), and how she thinks about time (1:03:00) and ritual (1:07:40). 

Original air date: September 7, 2025

Subscribe to our ⁠YouTube channel⁠. This episode was recorded at Spotify Studios.

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Samin Nosrat (‘Salt Fat Acid Heat’) Cooks These ‘Good Things’ at Home

Two years ago Mary Beth Barone considered quitting stand-up comedy. Thankfully (for us) these were always “empty threats.” The kinds you make when you’re working and waiting for your break, or, in her case, a Netflix special. 

She joins us this week on the precipice of her (excellent) streaming debut, “Galaxy Brain”, to talk about her intended audience in 2026 (5:32), the concept behind the special’s title (6:35), playing the algorithm (8:15), and the enduring influence of national treasure Lucille Ball (13:15). We also dive into her Connecticut upbringing (14:46), growing up on SNL in the ‘90s (15:15), her early, funny work (18:13), and the jokes jotted down in a gold Kate Spade notebook (26:27) before the first night she got on stage at an UCB open mic (27:08).

On the back half, Mary Beth shares the decade in comedy that followed: finding her voice as a performer (28:42), the unexpected role Interstellar played in her path (30:24), being inspired by the web-to-TV pipeline of shows like “Insecure” and “Broad City” (32:58), her “Thought Provoking” material “too frank and graphic” for some publications (34:22), the “parasocial relationship” she has with her audience (38:25), and arc of “the female comedian” (42:08).

We also talk auditioning for SNL alongside Caleb Hearon (46:14), trying to galvanize the hot community into participating in electoral politics (52:56), the newest season of the “Ride” podcast, buoyed by the Baronies, and co-hosted by Benito Skinner on Dear Media (54:40), the challenges of making work in the age of comment sections and subreddits (58:10), the publication of her candid, deeply moving Grub Street Diet diary (1:00:32), the ways in which 2025 “broke” her (1:04:00), how she’s putting the pieces back together slowly in 2026 (1:08:22), home movies (1:10:39), and a vision from her late Grandmother Barone that proved, rather improbably, prophetic (1:14:18).

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Comedian Mary Beth Barone’s Brilliant ‘Galaxy Brain’

Timothy Olyphant has made a career out of masking the effort behind his effortless performances.

He joins us on the heels of his recent turns in Lucky and The Five-Star Weekend. We talk about performing opposite Anya Taylor-Joy (3:53), his upbringing in Modesto, California (7:00), and the years he spent swimming competitively at USC before trading in the fine arts for acting (14:30). Then, Timothy reflects on moving to New York to study at the legendary William Esper Studio (18:38), what actor Holly Hunter taught him about keeping a presence of mind on set (26:00), and the creative freedom he found working with showrunner David Milch on Deadwood (34:34).

On the back-half, Olyphant discusses the collaborative spirit behind Justified with Walton Goggins (39:00), getting caught in the midst of real gunfire at the set of Justified: City Primeval in Chicago (49:00), acting alongside Leonardo DiCaprio (53:00), David Fincher’s famously meticulous process (56:10), and what he envisions for his next chapter (1:07:15).

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Actor Timothy Olyphant (‘Justified’) is Riding High

Jelani Cobb is a professor, historian, and staff writer for The New Yorker, where he covers race and politics. He joins us to discuss the “dimension and contours” of this moment in America (6:00), the intersection of Amy Cooper's phone call and George Floyd's death (12:05), how to engage those with whom you disagree (18:30), Ahmaud Arbery and the age of the black-panic defense (24:00), why body cam videos may objectify instead of humanize (28:45), Twitter's sudden censorship of President Trump (37:30), and, finally, his predictions for what the next 5-6 months may look like (44:00).

 
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Episode 173 - Jelani Cobb (The New Yorker) On the Death of George Floyd

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