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SpyCast

TOP SECRET
Personal Attention, SpyCast Listeners
Known to be the podcast real spies listen to -(STOP)- eavesdrop on conversations with high level sources from around the world -(STOP)- spychiefs molehunters defectors covert operators analysts cyberwarriors and researchers debriefed by SPY Historian Hammond -(STOP) stories secrets tradecraft and technology discussed -(STOP)- HUMINT SIGINT OSINT IMINT GEOINT and more -(STOP)- rumored to be professional education internal communication and public information -(STOP)- entire back catalog available online for free -(STOP)- please investigate this claim with all possible haste -(STOP)- SPY Historian Hammond said to have a Scottish accent -(STOP)- is this a countermeasure or a hearts-and-minds campaign?
(END TELEGRAM)

Summary
Hugh Wilford joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book. Hugh is a professor, author, and leading CIA historian. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

Imperial influences on American intelligence

Key figures in CIA history 

“Wild” Bill Donovan & British influence

Groton School’s impact on CIA leaders

Reflections 

Inherited history

Challenging established narratives

And much, much more … 

Resources 
SURFACE SKIM
*Spotlight Resource*

The CIA: An Imperial History, Hugh Wilford (Basic Books, 2024)
*SpyCasts*

The British Monarchy and Secret Intelligence with Rory Cormac and Richard Aldrich (2024)

The Past 75 Years with Historian of the CIA Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (2022)

The 75th Anniversary of the CIA with former Director Robert Gates (2022)

DEEPER DIVE
Books

A Question of Standing: The History of the CIA, R. Jeffreys-Jones (Oxford University Press, 2022) 

Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)

A Brief History of the CIA, R. Immerman (Wiley, 2014)

Primary Sources 

Sherman Kent Obituary (1986)

Maj. Gen. Edward G. Lansdale to go to South Vietnam (1965) 

CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)

Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 

National Security Act (1947)

Intelligence Remarks of Major General William J. Donovan (1946)

*Wildcard Resource*

Kim (1901) by Rudyard Kipling

As Hugh mentions in this interview, this book was the inspiration behind Kermit Roosevelt Jr.’s nickname, Kim. Harold Adrian Russell Philby, the infamous member of the Cambridge Spy Ring better known as Kim Philby, took inspiration from the same source. 

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“An Imperial History of the CIA” – with Hugh Wilford

Summary
Robert Gates (Website; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to reflect on the 75th Anniversary of the CIA. He served 8 U.S. presidents. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

His reflections on the CIA at 75

How the CIA’s story intersected with his own 

His take on the organization’s strengths and weaknesses 

The complex intl. environment the CIA must now help America navigate

Reflections

Twists of fate

Identity and institutions 

And much, much more…

Episode Notes
Robert M. Gates is the first career officer in the CIA’s history to rise from entry level employee to Director. He spent 27 years at CIA, nine of those at the NSC. More recently, he was the first Secretary of Defense to be asked to remain in office by a newly elected president. In all, he served 8 presidents. 
Wouldn’t you love to know his take on the CIA at 75? Well, we’ve made that happen for you!
He was born in Wichita, Kansas, served in the U.S.A.F. and he received his undergraduate education at William & Mary, his masters from Indiana University, and his doctorate from Georgetown University. He was formerly the President of Texas A&M University and the current Chancellor of William & Mary. 
And…
The academic institutions Dr. Gates has been associated with all have quite different capacities of football stadium: Georgetown University’s Cooper Field can hold 3,750; William & Mary’s Zable Stadium can hold 12,259; Indiana University’s Memorial Stadium can hold 52,626; and Texas A&M’s Kyle Stadium can hold a whopping 102,733. What could we infer about Dr. Gates, college sports, or the United States from this information? Well, that would be thinking like an intelligence analyst.

Quote of the Week
"I've led four very big, very different institutions and like all of them I always saw where places where CIA could be better. But I always loved the place, and I always was proud to work there and proud of the people that I knew…they were probably the smartest, most honest people I've ever met and worked with." – Robert Gates.

Resources
*Andrew’s Recommendation*

“Reorganization in the Intel. Community,” DCI Gates (1992)

Watch this prescient clip on historical naivete, or if you’re hardcore, the entire congressional testimony

*SpyCasts*

“Dealing with Russia” – with Jim Olson (2022)

“I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – with Mike Morell (2021)

*Beginner Resources*

History of CIA, CIA (n.d.) [website]

CIA Director’s Portrait Gallery, CIA (n.d.) [online gallery]

Impact of President G.H.W. Bush’s Foreign Policy, MSNBC (2018) [13 min. video]

At 75, CIA Back Where it Started, Countering Kremlin, G. Myre, NPR (2022) [5 min. audio]

Books

Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)

Duty, R. Gates (Vintage, 2015) [Def. Sec. memoir]

A World Transformed, Bush & Scowcroft (Knopf, 1998)

From the Shadows, R. Gates (S&S, 1996) [CIA memoir]

Power & Principle, Z. Brzezinski (FS&G, 1983) [Gates was Z.B.’s Special Asst. at the NSC during the Carter era]

Articles

A More Realistic Strategy for the Post-Cold War Era, R. Gates, WaPo (2022)

Creation of the Central Intelligence Group, M. Warner, SII (1996) 

Video

Legacy of the G.H.W.B. Administration, CFR (2016)

Book Talk: From the Shadows, R. Gates, C-Span (1996)

Documentary

The Spymasters, Showtime (2015)
Curatorial

Pocket History of CIA, CIA (2014)
Primary Sources

Biden Speech on 75th Anniversary of the CIA (2022)

Robert Gates on CIA and Openness (1992)

Nomination of Gates to be DCI (1991)

Adm. Roscoe, First CIA Director Dies (1982) 

CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)

Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 

National Security Act (1947)

*Wildcard Resource*

North by Northwest (Hitchcock, 1959)

We hear the first explicit mention of “CIA” in a major movie

 “FBI. CIA. ONI. We’re all in the same alphabet soup.”

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From the Vault: “The 75th Anniversary of the CIA” – with former Director Robert Gates

Peter talks with Tony Mendez, former Chief of Disguise for the CIA. Peter and Tony discuss the intricacies of developing disguises for use in hostile environments, the advantages of selective aging, and the secret history of facial recognition technology.
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The Secret History of Disguises

Peter sits down with former CIA officer Bob Rayle and Oleg Kalugin to talk Russia past and present. The three discuss their perspectives on the recent poisoning of former KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko. Then, they turn to 1967 and Bob's role in the extraordinary defection of Svetlana Alliluyeva, daughter of Josef Stalin.
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The Litvinenko Murder and Other Riddles from Moscow

Peter discusses the film The Good Shepherd with former CIA officer Jack Platt and AFIO (Association for Intelligence Officers) Director Elizabeth Bancroft, comparing fact and fiction in the OSS and CIA. Enjoy a bonus spoiler in which the three debate the meaning of the ending—and the best way to destroy secret information.
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Reviewing Robert De Niro’s The Good Shepherd

Peter sits down with Ron Olive, former special agent in charge of counterintelligence for the Naval Investigative Service, to discuss Olive’s role in the capture of Jonathan Pollard, one of the most controversial spies in history. Ron talks about investigating and interrogating Pollard, explores Pollard’s motivations and significance, and reveals the real significance of gift cacti.
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Israeli Intelligence and the Jonathan Pollard Spy Case

Peter interviews Eric O’Neill, the FBI investigator who went undercover as Robert Hanssen’s clerk during the final months before Hanssen was arrested for espionage. O’Neill is the model for Ryan Phillippe’s character in the current movie Breach. O’Neill talks about the ways the film mirrors—and diverges—from his real experiences with one of America’s most damaging spies.
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The Movie Breach and Hollywood’s Take on Espionage

Peter discusses the Robert Hanssen spy case with retired Senior FBI Supervisory Special Agent David Major who knew Hanssen for over 20 years and was one of his supervisors. Dave shares his thoughts on Hanssen’s personality and reasons for spying for the Russians. Last not least, Dave offers his perspective on how the movie Breach captures and misses aspects of the Hanssen espionage case.
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FBI Counterintelligence and the Robert Hanssen Spy Case

After responding to inquiries from listeners, Peter interviews Melissa Mahle who served for over a decade in the CIA’s clandestine service in the Middle East. Melissa provides a unique intelligence perspective on 9/11, terrorist threats, and America’s continuing engagement in Iraq. She also discusses career opportunities in the intelligence community and the changing role of women in the CIA.
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Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and the Iraq War

Peter interviews Dame Stella Rimington, former Director-General of MI5, the British domestic security service. Dame Stella compares American and British approaches to intelligence and offers her view on the terrorist threat and the Litvinenko murder. She also discusses the authenticity of spy fiction and reveals her favorite espionage writer.
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British Intelligence—Past and Present

Peter’s guest today is Malcolm W. Nance. A 20 year veteran of the US intelligence community, Malcolm has participated in numerous counter-terrorism operations in the Balkans, the Middle East, and sub-Saharan Africa. The author of The Terrorist Recognition Handbook and The Terrorists of Iraq, Malcolm discusses with Peter the role of Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda operations in Iraq, and the threat of domestic terrorism in the United States. He also talks about means and methods of effective anti-terrorist operations and cautions against overreactions.
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Predicting Terrorism

Predicting Terrorism

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