In this episode of the Scrum.org Community Podcast, Mik Kersten, CTO at Planview, returns to chat with Dave about the movement from project-centric to product-driven models, reflecting on the recent Project to Product event where they both spoke.

Together, they explore how pragmatic organizations are embracing product operating models, underscoring the need for executive sponsorship, business alignment, and visibility into flow metrics. Kersten shares valuable lessons from Vanguard’s success, the challenges of technical debt, and the importance of infrastructure for sustained transformation.

Tune in to learn why Mik and Dave are optimistic about the future of product-based models, especially with agile and DevOps practices setting the foundation for success.