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Science Friction's latest season is: Artificial Evolution. In 1996, Dolly the Sheep became the first ever cloned animal. Nearly 30 years later, genetic technology has reshaped the world around us. What exactly has happened, where are we headed, and are we OK about it?

In this series, environment reporter Peter de Kruijff tells the surprising stories of genetic engineering. Meet the scientists changing the food we eat and creating animals with organs we can use. Hear about the criminal conspiracy to clone a giant sheep, and the teams bringing extinct animals back from the dead.

Artificial Evolution traces the influence of genetic technology from Dolly into the future. It’s the latest series of Science Friction, an award-winning podcast from ABC Radio National.

Brain Rot (Season 3): How does being chronically online affect our brains? Technology reporter Ange Lavoipierre explores the wildest ways people are using tech — from falling in love with AI companions to data-dumping a life into a language model — and the big questions about our own screen use.

Cooked (Season 2): Why do some studies show ice cream is good for you? Why do some people say they feel good going carnivore, and do we really need as many electrolytes as the internet tells us? Food and nutrition scientist Dr Emma Beckett cuts through these confusing findings to explain how nutrition science works.

AI Overlords (Season 1): AI didn't come from nowhere, and its development hasn't been a smooth, straight line — it's been rife with drama, conflict and disagreement. Technology reporter James Purtill looks at where AI came from, who controls it and where it's heading.

Science Friction

In 2018, a Chinese scientist made an announcement that shocked the world — and landed him years in prison.

In a special episode of Artificial Evolution, Health Report reporter Shelby Traynor traces the story of He Jiankui, the researcher who helped to produce genetically edited babies.

His actions invited condemnation from scientists worldwide and opened new fronts of scientific and ethical debate.

Thank you to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia for supplying the baby KJ audio, and Genepool Productions for supplying the citizen's jury audio used in this episode.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

 • Reporter: Shelby Traynor 
 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producers: Shelby Traynor, Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Roi Huberman

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

05 | Artificial Evolution: Gene-Edited Babies

Dr Jane Goodall, a pioneer of ground-breaking chimpanzee field research, has died at the age of 91.

Her early work, published in 1963, transformed our understanding of the social and emotional lives of chimpanzees and encouraged a wave of study into primate behaviour.

She later established the Jane Goodall Institute, now one of the world's largest conservation organisations.

In 2022, Natasha Mitchell interviewed Dr Goodall for Science Friction about her life and work.

This episode of Science Friction first aired in May 2022.

A story of hope: How Jane Goodall changed the world

Timothy Andrews has lived with a pig kidney in his body for eight months.

That makes him a record breaker — living longer with a gene-edited pig kidney than anyone else in the world so far.

In the final episode of Artificial Evolution, he tells us about his journey, his hopes for making it a year with the transplant, and the challenges he's faced along the way.

With expanded clinical trials into this 'xenotransplantation' around the corner, researchers and advocacy groups argue a future in which animal organs are used in life-saving transplantation procedures for humans is not far off.

So what is the science and history of xenotransplantation? What are the ethical concerns? And what's happening in Australia?

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Timothy AndrewsNew Hampshire, United States

Professor Wayne HawthorneProfessor of Transplantation, Westmead Hospital

Professor Dominique MartinProfessor of Health Ethics and Professionalism, Deakin University

Professor Syd JohnsonProfessor of Bioethics, Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Tim Symonds
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

04 | Artificial Evolution: Pig Parts for People?

Gene-edited fish are on the market in Japan, and similar foods could soon be on Australian shelves. But will we want to eat them, how affordable will they be, and what do they even taste like?

On this episode of Artificial Evolution, Pete looks at the future of gene editing for consumption, what's on the menu, and whether it’s a sustainable way to feed the world.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Richard Girvan/Angie Grant
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

03 | Artificial Evolution: Yuck or Yum? Gene-Edited Meat

Earlier this year, a US biotech company claimed it had brought back a long-extinct species - the dire wolf, which roamed ancient America thousands of years ago.

And the same editing technology that remade dire wolves could also be used to stop Australian species from going extinct.

In episode two of Artificial Evolution, Pete heads to the labs that are safeguarding the genetic material of unique Australian species and working to bring back the thylacine.

And visits the researchers working on quolls to make them immune to cane toad toxins and experimenting with putting alpaca genes into endangered frogs to protect them from a deadly fungal disease.

As this new field of science opens up opportunities to edit endangered species … can and should we act? And do we have our priorities wrong in tackling species loss and climate change?

Artificial Evolution is a four-part series from Science Friction about how gene technologies are changing the world around us.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Angie Grant
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

02 | Artificial Evolution: Genetically Modified Marsupials

Last year, 81-year-old rancher Arthur 'Jack' Schubarth was sentenced to six months in prison.

His crime? An elaborate, multi-country conspiracy to smuggle in the tissue of a rare big horn sheep — clone it — and sell the offspring to hunters.

But how did we get to the point where such a scheme could be run out of an elderly rancher's backyard?

In episode one of Artificial Evolution, we trace the story of cloning from Dolly the sheep right through to the present day.

We discover the technology being used to clone horses right here in Australia — and find out whether Barbra Streisand's clones of her pet dog are anything like the original.

Artificial Evolution is a new four part series from Science Friction about how gene technologies are changing the world around us.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Matt Brown

Reporter, Associated Press

Professor Russell Bonduriansky

Evolutionary Ecologist, UNSW Sydney

John Farren-Price

Director, Catalina Equine

Karlene Hennig

Horse Manager, Catalina Equine

Dr Kim Fung

Principal Research Scientist, CSIRO

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Angie Grant
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

01 | Artificial Evolution: Cloning Goes Mainstream

In 1996, Dolly the Sheep became the first ever cloned animal. Nearly 30 years later, genetic technology has reshaped the world around us. What exactly has happened, where are we headed, and are we OK about it?

In Artificial Evolution, our latest series of Science Friction, ABC environment reporter Peter de Kruijff follows the story of gene technologies all the way from Dolly right through to the present day.

From the bizarre criminal conspiracy to clone the world's largest sheep, to the lab trying to bring back long-extinct species, and new trials transplanting animal organs into humans — each episode covers how these technologies are reshaping the world around us.

Episode 1 is out Wednesday, September 3.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

INTRODUCING — Artificial Evolution

We’ve all dreamt of lobbing our smartphone into the ocean and going off grid. 

So what happens when you follow through with it?

For our final episode of Brain Rot, we speak to the people who decided they’d had enough. 

From a French village, to Gen Z ‘luddites’ in New York City and a group of parents in regional Victoria, there are clubs, campaigns and even laws dedicated to a smartphone-free life.

But in 2025, how do you pull it off? And is it actually worth it?

Guests:

Stan Awtrey

Sportswriter, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Vincent Paul-Petit

Mayor, Seine-Port, France

Lisa Given

Professor of Information Sciences, RMIT University

Steph Challis

Founder, The Phone Pledge

Jameson Butler

Co-Founder, The Luddite Club

Credits:

 • Presenter: Ange Lavoipierre
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Ross Richardson

Thanks to Sam Goerling for the assistance with French translation.

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

05 | Brain Rot: Meet the people who ditched their smartphones. Is it worth it?

Plenty of people will say they are addicted to the internet. But how well-recognised, scientifically, is an addiction ... to your screen?

In episode four of Brain Rot, we dig into how behavioural addictions work.

And we hear from self-described internet addicts about the treatment programs that help them stay “internet sober”.

Brain Rot is a new five part series from the ABC’s Science Friction about how tech is changing our brains, hosted by Ange Lavoipierre.

Guests:

Jillian and Kate

Internet and Technology Addiction Anonymous members

Hilarie Cash 

Psychologist and Co-Founder, reSTART

Anna Lembke 

Professor of Psychiatry and Addiction Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine

Anastasia Hronis 

Clinical Psychologist; Author, The Dopamine Brain

Dar Meshi

Associate Professor, Michigan State University

Credits:

 • Presenter: Ange Lavoipierre
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Tim Symonds

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

04 | Brain Rot: Is internet addiction real?

We’re trusting tech with more tasks than ever — including the ones our brains once did.We’re Googling things we used to know, taking screenshots of things we’ll instantly forget, and hoarding all kinds of data we’ll never check again.On this episode of Brain Rot: is tech giving your brain a holiday, or putting it out of a job?You’ll also meet a guy who’s turned the tables, by using AI to help recover his lost memories.

Brain Rot is a five part series from the ABC’s Science Friction about how tech is changing our brains, hosted by Ange Lavoipierre.

Guests:

Dr Julia Soares

Assistant Professor, Mississipi State University

Morris Villaroel

Academic, Spain; Lifelogger

Max

Credits:

 • Presenter: Ange Lavoipierre
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Angie Grant

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

03 | Brain Rot: Is tech making your memory better or worse?

If the universe began with a big bang, how will it end? This question has suddenly got very personal for acclaimed science poet Alicia Sometimes.Physicists have got some hair-raising ideas, from the Big Crunch to the Big Rip. The personal, the poetic, and the physical of endings this week on Science Friction.Hear Part 1: What Came Before the Big BangGuests:

Alicia SometimesPoet, writer, broadcaster, podcaster

Chris FerrieQuantum physicist, Associate Professor, Centre for Quantum Software and InformationUniversity of Technology, SydneyAuthor, Quantum Physics for Babies (and other children's books)

Katie MackTheoretical cosmologist, Associate professor, Department of PhysicsNorth Carolina State University,Hawking Chair in Cosmology and Science CommunicationPerimeter Institute for Theoretical PhysicsAuthor, The End of Everything (Astrophysically Speaking)

Writer: Alicia SometimesWriter: Alicia SometimesProducers: Alicia Sometimes, Natasha MitchellSound Engineer: Matthew Crawford

The End of the Universe with poet Alicia Sometimes (Part 2 of 2)

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