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Science Friction's latest season is: The Challenger Legacy. 

In January 1986, the Challenger space shuttle disintegrated 73 seconds after lift-off. This is the story of how the tragedy unfolded, the engineers who tried to stop it — and the enduring consequences for humanity's exploration of space. 

Artificial Evolution (Season 4): Three decades ago, Dolly the Sheep became the first ever cloned mammal. Nearly 30 years later, genetic technology has reshaped the world around us. Environment reporter Peter de Kruijff explores what's changed, where we are headed, and whether we're okay with it.

Brain Rot (Season 3): How does being chronically online affect our brains? Technology reporter Ange Lavoipierre explores the wildest ways people are using tech — from falling in love with AI companions to data-dumping a life into a language model — and the big questions about our own screen use.

Cooked (Season 2): Why do some studies show ice cream is good for you? Why do some people say they feel good going carnivore, and do we really need as many electrolytes as the internet tells us? Food and nutrition scientist Dr Emma Beckett cuts through these confusing findings to explain how nutrition science works.

AI Overlords (Season 1): AI didn't come from nowhere, and its development hasn't been a smooth, straight line — it's been rife with drama, conflict and disagreement. Technology reporter James Purtill looks at where AI came from, who controls it and where it's heading.

Science Friction

It's the morning of January 28th, 1986. On board the space shuttle Challenger are seven astronauts, including teacher Christa McAuliffe.

She is set to be the first ever teacher in space. But Christa never makes it to orbit.

In the wake of an unprecedented disaster, questions start to be asked.

Should this mission have been launched in the first place?

To hear more podcast episodes from hosts Fiona Pepper and Dr Karl Kruszelnicki about the legacy the 1986 Challenger space shuttle disaster left on culture, space exploration and high-risk decision making, search ‘Science Friction: The Challenger Legacy podcast’ from Radio National (RN) on the ABC Listen App (Australia), or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

John TribeRetired shuttle engineer

Steve NesbittFormer NASA public affairs officer

June Scobee RodgersWidow of Challenger commander Dick Scobee

Adam HigginbothamAuthor, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space

Credits:

 • Presenters: Fiona Pepper and Karl Kruszelnicki
 • Reporter: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Series Producer: Jonathan Webb
 • Executive Producer: Petria Ladgrove
 • Sound Engineer: Tim Jenkins
 • Archives Research: Lisa Chidlow, Michael Osmond

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

01 | The Challenger Legacy: Launch Fever

Forty years ago this January, the Space Shuttle Challenger disintegrated on its way into orbit. All seven astronauts on board were killed.

In the days after the tragedy, the world wanted answers. What really caused the shuttle to explode? And should the launch have been stopped altogether?

For season five of Science Friction, Dr Karl Kruszelnicki and Fiona Pepper investigate how the Challenger disaster unfolded – and what that has meant for space exploration from 1986 to now.

The Challenger Legacy is a five-part series from Science Friction. Episode 1 is out Wednesday 21st January.

INTRODUCING — The Challenger Legacy

In 2018, a Chinese scientist made an announcement that shocked the world — and landed him years in prison.

In a special episode of Artificial Evolution, Health Report reporter Shelby Traynor traces the story of He Jiankui, the researcher who helped to produce genetically edited babies.

His actions invited condemnation from scientists worldwide and opened new fronts of scientific and ethical debate.

Thank you to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia for supplying the baby KJ audio, and Genepool Productions for supplying the citizen's jury audio used in this episode.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

 • Reporter: Shelby Traynor 
 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producers: Shelby Traynor, Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Roi Huberman

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

05 | Artificial Evolution: Gene-Edited Babies

Timothy Andrews has lived with a pig kidney in his body for eight months.

That makes him a record breaker — living longer with a gene-edited pig kidney than anyone else in the world so far.

In the final episode of Artificial Evolution, he tells us about his journey, his hopes for making it a year with the transplant, and the challenges he's faced along the way.

With expanded clinical trials into this 'xenotransplantation' around the corner, researchers and advocacy groups argue a future in which animal organs are used in life-saving transplantation procedures for humans is not far off.

So what is the science and history of xenotransplantation? What are the ethical concerns? And what's happening in Australia?

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Timothy AndrewsNew Hampshire, United States

Professor Wayne HawthorneProfessor of Transplantation, Westmead Hospital

Professor Dominique MartinProfessor of Health Ethics and Professionalism, Deakin University

Professor Syd JohnsonProfessor of Bioethics, Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Tim Symonds
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

04 | Artificial Evolution: Pig Parts for People?

Gene-edited fish are on the market in Japan, and similar foods could soon be on Australian shelves. But will we want to eat them, how affordable will they be, and what do they even taste like?

On this episode of Artificial Evolution, Pete looks at the future of gene editing for consumption, what's on the menu, and whether it’s a sustainable way to feed the world.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Richard Girvan/Angie Grant
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

03 | Artificial Evolution: Yuck or Yum? Gene-Edited Meat

Earlier this year, a US biotech company claimed it had brought back a long-extinct species - the dire wolf, which roamed ancient America thousands of years ago.

And the same editing technology that remade dire wolves could also be used to stop Australian species from going extinct.

In episode two of Artificial Evolution, Pete heads to the labs that are safeguarding the genetic material of unique Australian species and working to bring back the thylacine.

And visits the researchers working on quolls to make them immune to cane toad toxins and experimenting with putting alpaca genes into endangered frogs to protect them from a deadly fungal disease.

As this new field of science opens up opportunities to edit endangered species … can and should we act? And do we have our priorities wrong in tackling species loss and climate change?

Artificial Evolution is a four-part series from Science Friction about how gene technologies are changing the world around us.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Angie Grant
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

02 | Artificial Evolution: Genetically Modified Marsupials

Last year, 81-year-old rancher Arthur 'Jack' Schubarth was sentenced to six months in prison.

His crime? An elaborate, multi-country conspiracy to smuggle in the tissue of a rare big horn sheep — clone it — and sell the offspring to hunters.

But how did we get to the point where such a scheme could be run out of an elderly rancher's backyard?

In episode one of Artificial Evolution, we trace the story of cloning from Dolly the sheep right through to the present day.

We discover the technology being used to clone horses right here in Australia — and find out whether Barbra Streisand's clones of her pet dog are anything like the original.

Artificial Evolution is a new four part series from Science Friction about how gene technologies are changing the world around us.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Matt Brown

Reporter, Associated Press

Professor Russell Bonduriansky

Evolutionary Ecologist, UNSW Sydney

John Farren-Price

Director, Catalina Equine

Karlene Hennig

Horse Manager, Catalina Equine

Dr Kim Fung

Principal Research Scientist, CSIRO

Credits:

 • Presenter: Peter de Kruijff
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Angie Grant
 • Archives Researcher: Lisa Chidlow

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal, Whadjuk Noongar and Menang Noongar peoples.

01 | Artificial Evolution: Cloning Goes Mainstream

In 1996, Dolly the Sheep became the first ever cloned animal. Nearly 30 years later, genetic technology has reshaped the world around us. What exactly has happened, where are we headed, and are we OK about it?

In Artificial Evolution, our latest series of Science Friction, ABC environment reporter Peter de Kruijff follows the story of gene technologies all the way from Dolly right through to the present day.

From the bizarre criminal conspiracy to clone the world's largest sheep, to the lab trying to bring back long-extinct species, and new trials transplanting animal organs into humans — each episode covers how these technologies are reshaping the world around us.

Episode 1 is out Wednesday, September 3.

You can hear more episodes of Science Friction with journalist Peter de Kruijff about DNA, cloning, genetic modification and gene editing on the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

INTRODUCING — Artificial Evolution

We’ve all dreamt of lobbing our smartphone into the ocean and going off grid. 

So what happens when you follow through with it?

For our final episode of Brain Rot, we speak to the people who decided they’d had enough. 

From a French village, to Gen Z ‘luddites’ in New York City and a group of parents in regional Victoria, there are clubs, campaigns and even laws dedicated to a smartphone-free life.

But in 2025, how do you pull it off? And is it actually worth it?

Guests:

Stan Awtrey

Sportswriter, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Vincent Paul-Petit

Mayor, Seine-Port, France

Lisa Given

Professor of Information Sciences, RMIT University

Steph Challis

Founder, The Phone Pledge

Jameson Butler

Co-Founder, The Luddite Club

Credits:

 • Presenter: Ange Lavoipierre
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Ross Richardson

Thanks to Sam Goerling for the assistance with French translation.

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

05 | Brain Rot: Meet the people who ditched their smartphones. Is it worth it?

Plenty of people will say they are addicted to the internet. But how well-recognised, scientifically, is an addiction ... to your screen?

In episode four of Brain Rot, we dig into how behavioural addictions work.

And we hear from self-described internet addicts about the treatment programs that help them stay “internet sober”.

Brain Rot is a new five part series from the ABC’s Science Friction about how tech is changing our brains, hosted by Ange Lavoipierre.

Guests:

Jillian and Kate

Internet and Technology Addiction Anonymous members

Hilarie Cash 

Psychologist and Co-Founder, reSTART

Anna Lembke 

Professor of Psychiatry and Addiction Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine

Anastasia Hronis 

Clinical Psychologist; Author, The Dopamine Brain

Dar Meshi

Associate Professor, Michigan State University

Credits:

 • Presenter: Ange Lavoipierre
 • Producer: Fiona Pepper
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound Engineer: Tim Symonds

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

04 | Brain Rot: Is internet addiction real?

Are science and politics alien to each other? From climate change to coal mines, are scientists cutting through in policy debates?

Are scientists scared of politics? Science Friction Election Special

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