In the latest Rupert Spira Podcast, hosted by Science and Nonduality and moderated by Michael Reiley, Rupert is joined for a second time by Donald Hoffman. Their dialogue offers profound insights into the nature of consciousness and its relationship to reality. Together they propose that the materialist paradigm or the belief that consciousness emerges from the physical world is a flawed model and that consciousness is the fundamental field of reality. Exploring the potential of mathematics, art, and self-inquiry they discuss how we can transcend the limitations of spacetime and touch upon the transcendent aspects of human existence and they address the importance of integrating personal growth with the recognition of one's true nature. Ultimately, they envision a future where science and spirituality converge, leading to transformative breakthroughs in our understanding of consciousness.