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Lyt når som helst, hvor som helst 

Michael Max

Acupuncture and East Asian medicine was not developed in a laboratory. It does not advance through double-blind controlled studies, nor does it respond well to petri dish experimentation. Our medicine did not come from the statistical regression of randomized cohorts, but from the observation and treatment of individuals in their particular environment. It grows out of an embodied sense of understanding how life moves, unfolds, develops and declines.

Medicine comes from continuous, thoughtful practice of what we do in clinic, and how we approach that work. The practice of medicine is more — much more — than simply treating illness. It is more than acquiring skills and techniques. And it is more than memorizing the experiences of others. It takes a certain kind of eye, an inquiring mind and relentlessly inquisitive heart.

Qiological is an opportunity to deepen our practice with conversations that go deep into acupuncture, herbal medicine, cultivation practices, and the practice of having a practice. It’s an opportunity to sit in the company of others with similar interests, but perhaps very different minds. Through these dialogues perhaps we can better understand our craft.

Qiological Podcast

Part Two

How does a profession begin? Not on paper. Not with licensing boards or schools. Often enough, it starts with a handful of curious people who become convinced there's another way to do things. Part determination, part serendipity, and perhaps a good measure of luck.

Bill Prensky and Gene Bruno were there before acupuncture had a place in American healthcare. In the wake of the Vietnam War, student protests, and a generation questioning nearly everything, they walked away from academic research that no longer made sense to them. Their Tai Chi teacher, Marshall Ho, introduced them to Dr. Kim, who reluctantly agreed to teach a small group that in time became like family.

What followed is equal parts history and improbable story: treating patients at the Crossroads of the World, translating across languages, creating lecture series just to afford tuition, traveling with their teacher, and helping establish the first legal and educational footholds for acupuncture.

Listen in to this conversation on trading a graduate education for a study that didn’t have a syllabus, credentialing or degree, helped acupuncture to find its footing in America.

467 History Series, Rebellious Empirical Scientists Pt. 2 • Bill Prensky & Gene Bruno

Part One.

How does a profession begin? Not on paper. Not with licensing boards or schools. Often enough, it starts with a handful of curious people who become convinced there's another way to do things. Part determination, part serendipity, and perhaps a good measure of luck.

Bill Prensky and Gene Bruno were there before acupuncture had a place in American healthcare. In the wake of the Vietnam War, student protests, and a generation questioning nearly everything, they walked away from academic research that no longer made sense to them. Their Tai Chi teacher, Marshall Ho, introduced them to Dr. Kim, who reluctantly agreed to teach a small group that in time became like family.

What followed is equal parts history and improbable story: treating patients at the Crossroads of the World, translating across languages, creating lecture series just to afford tuition, traveling with their teacher, and helping establish the first legal and educational footholds for acupuncture.

Listen in to this conversation on trading a graduate education for a study that didn’t have a syllabus, credentialing or degree, helped acupuncture to find its footing in America.

467 History Series, Rebellious Empirical Scientists Pt. 1 • Bill Prensky & Gene Bruno

It’s not news that there are changes afoot in the world of education. You’re probably already well aware of the closure, over the past few years, of schools with a long history. There are concerns with loan debt that have been an issue since Obama was president. Most recently, the changes to student loans that not only fundamentally affect the acupuncture trade, but will change the landscape for graduate education in a notable way. 

In this conversation with Bex Groebner we untangle the intersection of education, accreditation, federal student loan programs and professional accountability. We explore how changes in funding will put financial pressure on schools that built a business model based on the higher loan caps of GRAD+ loans. How student debt affects those who are mortgaging their future on loans that many cannot pay back. Along with what could happen if the levels of student enrollment drop to the point where our accreditor (ACAHM) and certification organization (NCBAHM) lose the funding needed to sustain their business activities.

Bex suggests that in an uncertain world, it’s best to have a back up, and that is a large part of the motivation behind her work at the Acupuncture Workforce Alliance. Most of all, she’d like to see an acupuncture education be accessible, affordable and within reach of anyone who’d like to learn this medicine so they can serve their communities, and be able to support themselves and their families.

The Cost of Entry—Loans, Schools, and Sustainability • Bex Groebner

Some teachings are preserved in books. Others are preserved in people.

In this episode we visit with Johann Hausen, translator, publisher, practitioner, and long-time student of Daoist traditions in the Wudang Mountains. What begins with martial arts and Chinese medicine quickly opens into a wider conversation about cultivation, character, and the responsibility of carrying knowledge forward.

We explore the foundations of internal alchemy, not as a collection of techniques, but as a lifelong process of refining oneself through everyday life. Why difficult people may be our greatest teachers. How attachment can hide in the things we love most. And why the real work often happens far from the meditation cushion.

Along the way we discuss preserving traditional teachings, the role of books in a digital world, and Johann’s work translating and publishing texts that might otherwise be lost. Beneath it all is a simple but challenging question: what does it mean to become a better human being, rather than simply a more knowledgeable one?

466 Not Two, The Geometry of Heaven and Earth • Johan Hausen

We tend to think of the acupuncture profession as something fixed and stable, but the reality is that it is always in motion. The practice of East Asian medicine in North America has been shaped by decades of effort—by practitioners, educators, regulators, and advocates working to create a place for this medicine in the American healthcare system.

In this conversation with Valerie Hobbs, we take a historical look at how the profession bootstrapped itself into being. Along with how the creation of educational standards, accreditation, certification, and professional organizations, helped to give the profession the form it has today..

We also discuss some of the tensions shaping the present moment. Questions about educational requirements, student debt, declining enrollment, professional identity, integration into mainstream healthcare, and the uncertain future of acupuncture education. 

This conversation is an invitation to consider the forces shaping our profession and to consider how we might respond. Beneath the challenges is a recurring theme: the future of this medicine will not be determined by any single institution or idea, but by our willingness to listen, engage thoughtfully, and find ways of working toward our shared goals.

Deconstruction or Innovation • Valerie Hobbs

As the Fire Horse year reaches its peak, many practitioners are noticing shifts in both the environment and the clinic.

In this conversation with Christine Cannon, we explore the interaction of fire and water through the lens of Wu Yun Liu Qi, and how these energies may be influencing respiratory health, anxiety, fatigue, and emotional resilience.

We also discuss the importance of protecting Wei Qi, creating restorative space, and finding balance during periods of heightened activity and change.

Listen in for a practical discussion on seasonal influences, constitutional health, and navigating the energetic themes of the year.

465 Fire and Water, The Fire Horse at Mid-Year • Christine Cannon

What if the very things that seem to be pulling our profession apart are actually the forces that will finally condense it into something more resilient? We’re in a moment of choppy waters—school closures, shrinking enrollment, and a shifting financial landscape—where the successes of what have brought us to this moment will not take us into the future. .

In this conversation with Kathleen Lumiere, co-president of the Seattle Institute for East Asian Medicine (SIEAM), we discuss how we might make changes to our educational models that both streamlines and strengthens East Asian medicine. 

We discuss the integration of business education into clinical training, the disappearance of Grad Plus loans, and the effect that has had on a system that came to be dependent on them. Kathleen also introduces the idea of using the "wisdom of crowds" to define the irreducible core of our profession—a shared set of competencies that could protect our identity while opening new doors for collaboration.

Listen into this conversation about what it means to be adventuresome and iconoclastic in a moment of crisis. It’s a look at how we can protect our infrastructure while remaining flexible enough to evolve, ensuring that the next generation of practitioners doesn't just survive, but finds a path to true gainful employment.

What is Essential • Kathleen Lumiere

Many of us experience life through schedules, deadlines, and calendars, yet beneath them are deeper patterns that shape how we grow, adapt, heal, and change.

In this conversation with Peter Firebrace, we explore Chinese perspectives on time, timing, and the timeless. Through seasonal cycles, the Chinese calendar, and the rhythms observed in nature, we look at how a deeper awareness of time can inform both clinical practice and everyday life.

We also touch on what may be lost when we become disconnected from the natural patterns around us, and why reconnecting with those rhythms can offer a different way of understanding ourselves and our patients.

Listen in for a conversation that weaves together Chinese philosophy, clinical insight, and the enduring relationship between human life and the cycles of nature.

464 Time, Timing and the Timeless • Peter Firebrace

We’re at a moment where the structure of loans and professional education is changing. Not just for the acupuncture profession, but across the entire educational landscape. While it seems the storm has suddenly blown in, it’s been brewing for a while.

In this conversation with Ryan Hofer we discuss the reality of Grad Plus loans, the true cost of them in terms of the interest they generate, and why the "math doesn't math" for a lot of people entering the field right now. We explore the various ways loans can be resolved, and the shame and anxiety that graduates experience when they realize they are in over their head financially.

There’s also this uncomfortable question about how we got here—how a business model based on student debt became the default, and what happens when that faucet finally gets turned off.

Change is coming and our profession is going to have to find a way to work with far less money coming for student loans. And we also need to reckon with the unsustainable debt that practitioners of an earlier generation did not need to face.

Realities of the Math • Ryan Hofer

Clinical practice asks us to recognise patterns, trust experience, and make decisions under uncertainty. But what happens when discovery comes not from certainty, but from staying open to surprise?

Dr. Neil Theise is a liver pathologist, stem cell researcher, Zen practitioner, and one of the scientists behind the discovery of the interstitium. In this conversation, he joins Michael to explore the tension between expertise and beginner’s mind, and how curiosity itself can become a path to deeper understanding.

Listen into this discussion as they explore the body as both structure and living continuum; how fascia, fluid, electricity, and awareness may be more interconnected than we realise; why perception changes depending on the “scale” we look from; and how science, meditation, and direct experience each reveal different truths about what it means to be human.

463 Complexity, Boundaries and Biomes • Neil Theise

The path into acupuncture isn’t always clean or linear—sometimes it begins in the grit and confusion of working out just who you are in this world. From anthropology studies in Seattle’s Skid Row to the disciplined intensity of kendo in Japan, Jeffrey Dann’s journey was shaped by curiosity, discomfort, and a search for something deeper. A knee injury, a moment on a subway, and an unexpected recovery became the doorway into a medicine that would take him through Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, and Beijing in the early days of acupuncture’s global spread. 

In this conversation, we follow that winding road—through apprenticeship, cultural exchange, and the evolution of practice. From forceful needling to the subtle power of touch, Jeffrey’s story reflects a broader shift in medicine itself: one that balances tradition with change, and technique with sensitivity.

Listen in as we explore how acupuncture travelled the world, transformed through different cultures, and continues to adapt to the modern body and mind.

458 History Series - What a long strange trip it's been • Jeffrey Dann

Lyt når som helst, hvor som helst

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