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MSNBC

Main Justice is the next era of legal analysis from Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord, the veteran lawyers behind the hit podcast Prosecuting Donald Trump. As the criminal cases against Trump wind down and his new administration comes to power, Andrew and Mary draw on their extensive experience working within the Department of Justice to break down what’s happening inside Trump’s DOJ. Each week, they use their platform on Main Justice to safeguard against assaults on our laws, our Constitution, and our democracy.

Prosecuting Donald Trump

It's been another wild week, after the D.C. Attorney General sued the government for attempting to install the head of the D.E.A. as D.C.’s emergency police commissioner. Following an emergency hearing, US Attorney General Pam Bondi backed down and re-wrote the directive. But Andrew and Mary highlight why that’s just the start: it’s no longer just the D.C. National Guard being deployed in the nation’s capital, National Guard units from five other red states are being sent to the city, making a complicated stew of who’s in charge and who has jurisdiction. Next, they weave this thread into last week's trial over whether California’s National Guard performed law enforcement operations in Los Angeles, a potential violation of The Posse Comitatus Act. And with Russia and Ukraine so much in the news, Andrew offers some reflections from the 2019 Special Counsel’s report that exposes Russia’s long-held goal of taking over the Donbas region. And last up, Andrew and Mary fill listeners in on two DC Circuit cases that have their attention: a decision allowing the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to be dismantled and another that allows Trump to withhold billions in foreign aid.

And a reminder: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25.

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Normalizing Militarization

When “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength” we are living in an era of alternate facts. Mary and Andrew apply this Orwellian concept to what's happening this week, after President Trump cited section 740 of the Home Rule Act to federalize the DC police force and send in the national guard to the nation’s capital. They detail how the president was able to do this and why Congress will be the ultimate arbiter of this move. Then, they highlight some litigation befitting this theme, with Judge Breyer’s trial starting this week on the use of the national guard in Los Angeles, and some decisions including not to unseal grand jury testimony in the Ghislaine Maxwell case, plus an Appeals court blocking contempt proceedings in JGG. Last up, Andrew and Mary take a look at Judge Henderson’s opinion in the OMB case and why it deserves more attention than it’s received. 

Further reading: Here is President Trump’s letter to Congress citing section 740, courtesy of the New York Times.

And some exciting news: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25.

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Demonstrably False

Accountability or weaponization? That's the question Andrew and Mary tackle in their 150th episode together, starting with the distraction of the Office of the Special Counsel's investigation into Jack Smith for possible Hatch Act violations. In other DOJ related matters, they give some context to the Trump administration’s continued battle to keep Alina Habba, a Trump ally, as New Jersey U.S. Attorney, just as The Legal Accountability Center filed bar complaints against lawyers who have represented Trump’s White House in court. In another sideshow, Andrew and Mary break down what to make of a report on the “Clinton Plan” emails, declassified amid the Epstein controversy. And last up, they detail the decision out of the 9th Circuit Court which upheld a pause on ICE raids in California. 

Further Reading: 

Here is the piece Andrew and his colleague Ryan Goodman wrote for Just Security in October 2024: Refuting the Latest Baseless Attacks Against Special Counsel Jack Smith

Here is the 9th Circuit Court decision on ICE Raids: Appeal from the United States District Court for the Central District of California 

And some exciting news: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Distractions and Sideshows

If it’s customary, it’s probably not happening in this Justice Department. Starting with the latest from the Epstein controversy, Andrew and Mary unpack what to make of the two days Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche spent interviewing Ghislaine Maxwell. This, after a Florida judge denied the release of Epstein grand jury transcripts last Wednesday.And in immigration related news, three decisions came through in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia saga, just as the first claim is filed against the U.S. over one man’s deportation to El Salvador without due process. Then, in an eye-popping move, Attorney General Pam Bondi’s office filed a misconduct complaint against Judge James Boasberg for “making improper public comments” about the President and his administration. And before wrapping up this week, Mary and Andrew give some context to the former J6 prosecutor who’s suing the administration over his abrupt firing.

Further Reading: Here is the misconduct complaint filed against Judge Boasberg: Complaint Against United States District Court Chief Judge James E. Boasberg

And some exciting news: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

An Unrecognizable Justice Department

Pressured for transparency from all sides of the aisle, the Department of Justice made a surprising move to try and unseal grand jury materials from the Jeffery Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell cases. Andrew and Mary discuss why this move is so shocking and what it signifies. They also look at the latest sentencing for an ex-officer involved in the 2020 raid that killed Breonna Taylor and what a trial on behalf of international students and faculty detained for pro-Palestinian activism revealed about ICE’s practices. Finally, they unpack the DOJ’s firing of Maurene Comey and Attorney General Pam Bondi’s firing of a New Jersey attorney who replaced a long-term Trump ally. 

Listener Note: This episode was recorded prior to the ruling from a Florida court that denied the requested grand jury materials in the Jeffery Epstein case. However, the DOJ’s other request related to a grand jury in the Southern District of New York remains pending.

Further reading:

 • Here is the 
op-ed • written by Rümeysa Öztürk in the Tufts Daily about her time in a women’s ICE facility.

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Disestablishment of the Law

Following the emergence of new evidence from messages submitted by the Department of Justice's whistleblower, Erez Reuveni, Andrew and Mary discuss its potential implications for the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia and the confirmation process of Emil Bove III. They also examine a Southern California ruling to halt immigration stops based on race. On the other coast, they look at a temporary block of Trump's order restricting birthright citizenship—a case where Mary has particular expertise via her role in a related birthright citizenship case: CASA v. Trump. Finally, SCOTUS paves way for mass layoffs of federal workers, and DOJ opens investigations into former FBI Director James Comey and former CIA Director John Brennan.

Listener Note: This podcast was recorded several hours before the Supreme Court decision allowing for the dismantling of the Department of Education. Andrew and Mary will discuss on next week's episode.

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This is Not Normal

This week’s episode begins with a Supreme Court decision to allow the deportation of eight migrants to South Sudan without due process, despite it not being their country of origin. And after a comparative review of the new beefed-up ICE budget and what it means for deportation operations moving forward, Andrew and Mary spotlightthe latest from Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s civil and criminal cases. Also not to be missed: the newly disclosed letters Attorney General Pam Bondi sent to tech firms assuring them they would not be penalized for supporting TikTok operations in the US, despite a federal ban. Plus: how a pardoned J6 defendant received a life sentence for plotting to kill the agents who investigated him, and what led to FBI agent Michael Feinberg’s forced resignation.

Further reading: 

 • Here are the letters 
sent from Attorney General Pam Bondi • to Google, Apple and Amazon, among others. 
 • And here is a write up from former FBI agent Michael Feinberg, 
explaining his coerced resignation • . 

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"Your Huddled Masses"

After Friday’s Supreme Court ruling to limit nationwide injunctions, Mary and Andrew begin by breaking down what it means for future challenges to executive actions as they make their way through the courts, and what’s next for Mary’s birthright citizenship case. They also tackle the DHS lawsuit against all federal judges on the district court in Maryland, before reviewing the Justice Department’s plans to prioritize cases revoking citizenship—aka ‘denaturalizing’ US citizens. This, along with their discussion of ICE targeting migrant workers and using routine traffic stops to check legal status, shines a light on the legal limits of ICE’s tactics.

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Judicial Authority for Me Not Thee

The United States entered the conflict between Israel and Iran this weekend after bombing three Iranian nuclear sites. Andrew and Mary start this week’s episode here, discussing the scope of presidential war powers and the norms of international law following the strikes. After, they shift focus to immigration, zeroing in on a whistleblower complaint from a former DOJ lawyer against Principal Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove among others, as well as the releases of Mahmoud Khalil and Kilmar Abrego Garcia. And after a nod to the Supreme Court’s decision on removing immigrants to countries other than their own, Mary and Andrew touch on the 9th Circuit decision allowing Trump to retain control of the California National Guard, and what happens next.

Further reading: Here is the compliant from the Justice Department whistleblower (courtesy New York Times): Protected Whistleblower Disclosure of Erez Reuveni Regarding Violation of Laws, Rules & Regulations, Abuse of Authority, and Substantial and Specific Danger to Health and Safety at the Department of Justice.

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Testing the Limits

Political violence is never OK. So after the horrible news out of Minnesota, Mary and Andrew begin with a breakdown of the federal charges against the man accused of murdering a Minnesota state lawmaker and her husband and attempting to murder several others.Next, they move to an explainer of an appeals court ruling that temporarily blocked a lower court decision ordering the control of the California National Guard back to the state, while tying in the scuffle during Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem’s press conference last week as Senator Alex Padilla was forcibly removed and handcuffed. And rounding out this episode, Andrew and Mary note Trump’s failed attempt to appeal the $5 million judgement in the E Jean Carroll case, and the arguments heard last week on his attempt to remove his NY state hush money case to a federal court.

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Unflinching Obligation

Media coverage over the economic impact of President Trump’s tariffs has been robust,but not a ton of attention has been paid to the actual legality of them. So that's where Andrew and Mary begin, after two court decisions in the last week questioned the merits and where jurisdiction lies. Then they turn to the president's significant use of the pardon power to commute sentences and override convictions of some friends and allies, and what it says about maintaining a belief in blind justice. And after some great reporting from the New York Times, Mary and Adnrew detail some changes happening within Director Kash Patel’s FBI, as bureau leaders are taken down a peg and emphasis on public corruption is dialed back.

Further reading: Here is the New York Times reporting concerning the FBI: Unease at F.B.I. Intensifies as Patel Ousts Top Officials

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Checks and Balances

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