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BBC Radio 4

Nick Robinson talks to people who shape our political thinking about what shaped theirs.
 
Each episode of Political Thinking features an in-depth conversation with someone who is shaping our politics. The people who run our country (and those who want to), campaigners, business and union leaders, and people who run other countries. All of them join Nick in the studio, not for a news-y interrogation, but for an extended and relaxed conversation, delving into their past and how it shaped their worldview.
 
New episodes drop on Fridays on BBC Sounds. You can also watch them on BBC Two at 12:15pm on Fridays or on BBC iPlayer. And you can listen on BBC Radio 4 on Saturdays at 17:30.

Political Thinking with Nick Robinson

What is the Scottish First Minister's secret for getting Donald Trump's attention?

Nick is in Edinburgh to sit down with John Swinney, at the start of a year of big elections across the UK, including for the Scottish Parliament.

He has been at the top of SNP-led government's for almost all of the last 19 years. He is now asking for another five years, with the hope of securing a new independence referendum.

In this conversation, Swinney talks about how he charmed Donald Trump, reflects on a dangerous world, and opens up about the pressures on his family life.

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Flora Murray
Sound: Fiona Fairmaner
Editor: Giles Edwards

John Swinney: Trump, Independence and Scottish Troops in Ukraine

An exclusive interview on immigration, racism, Russia, Farage and Trump.

Jordan Bardella is the leader of National Rally in France, and currently leading the polls to become president in 2027 if his mentor, Marine Le Pen fails to overturn a conviction that bars her from running for office. 

In the meantime, he is on a mission to persuade people that his party has changed since its history as the National Front, founded in the 1970s by Jean-Marie Le Pen, a convicted racist and Holocaust-denier. 

Can he succeed?

In this interview, Bardella responds to Donald Trump's criticism of Europe, rejects challenges on racism and explains why he is in London to meet with Nigel Farage

Producers: Daniel Kraemer and Leela Padmanabhan
Research: Lisa Louis
Translation: Pierre-Antoine Denis
Additional translation: Merlyn Thomas, Erwan Rivault
Sound editing: Craig Kingham
Editor: Giles Edwards

Jordan Bardella: The 30-year-old populist hoping to be France's next president

Why did the leader of the opposition call the chancellor 'spineless' and 'shameless'?

Kemi Badenoch joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to reflect on what lay behind the personal and political debates around Budget Day.

How can she emulate Margaret Thatcher's regeneration of the Conservative Party?

How did anger help drive her into politics? 

And why do her kids wish she still worked at McDonald's?

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Editor: Jonathan Brunert
Sound: Ged Sudlow and Andrew Mills

Kemi Badenoch: Shooting from the hip

Why is the Home Secretary warning against leaving space for "darker forces"?

Shabana Mahmood sits down with Nick off the back of announcing sweeping changes to the asylum system in the UK.

Why did she decide to quote explicit racial abuse in the House of Commons? And how does she intend to avoid "ceding the territory of asylum to the far right"?

The Home Secretary reflects on how her Muslim faith plays a part in her job and sense of public service. And she reflects on the "humiliation" of the Downing Street briefing chaos.

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Sound: Ged Sudlow and Hal Haines
Editor: Jonathan Brunert

Shabana Mahmood: Racism, Asylum and Me

Can Plaid Cymru replace Labour as the party of power in Wales next year? Rhun ap Iorwerth, the party's leader, thinks so. 

Rhun ap Iorwerth joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to talk about how his parents' passion for Welsh heritage and language formed the basis for his vision for the country. 

They explore Welsh identity and the anti-monarchy spirit that inspired the name of his teenage band.

Also on the agenda: immigration, mispronunciations, and Robbie Williams.

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Editor: Leela Padmanabhan

'I'm preparing for government': Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth

Ed Davey warns Starmer against handing Reform UK 'the keys into 10 Downing Street'

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Sound: Ged Sudlow and Andrew Mills
Editor: Giles Edwards

'I like it when people underestimate me': Lib Dem leader Ed Davey

How a trip to the West Bank in her teens set the Coventry MP on a path into politics.

Zarah Sultana joins Nick in the studio a few weeks before the launch of her new party with Jeremy Corbyn.

In the interview, they discuss her positions on NATO, the state of Israel, seeking power, and why she likened her relationship with Corbyn to the Gallagher brothers.

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Editor: Giles Edwards

Life after Labour: Zarah Sultana on Palestine, Farage and 'Your Party'

Driving through Gaza is like "driving through the ruins of Hiroshima, or Stalingrad, or Dresden"

Tom Fletcher has been the United Nations humanitarian chief for almost a year and speaks to Nick two weeks into his organisation's efforts to get as much aid as possible into the Gaza Strip.

He gives a behind-the-scenes account of how he works with the Trump White House and how the ceasefire deal was struck in Sharm el-Sheikh.

Fletcher also shares his lessons learned from his years as foreign adviser to Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron.

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Editor: Giles Edwards
Sound: Hal Haines and Ged Sudlow

Gaza, Trump and me: UN humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher

The Shadow Energy Minister has transformed her party's approach to climate policy.

In this extended conversation, Claire Coutinho sets out what changed her mind on net zero, a shift that has brought her into fierce debates with her opposite number, Ed Miliband. 

She also shares her feelings about what she calls a rising "ethno-nationalism" on the right of British politics, as well as her reaction to her colleague Robert Jenrick's comments about Birmingham. 

Nick asks how she ended up being sacked by Nigella Lawson, and sets up a future dinner party with Miliband. 

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Sound: Jed Sudlow and Andy Mills
Editor: Jonathan Brunert

Net Zero has become a religion: Claire Coutinho on climate, identity and cooking

How do you protect and police freedom of speech on campus and in society?

Arif Ahmed is a Cambridge Philosopher who is now responsible for enforcing new freedom of speech rules on universities, colleges and students.

He took office at a time when there is particular focus on a vexed question: where the boundary should lie between free speech - which should be protected - and speech that threatens, intimidates and leaves people feeling unsafe, which can and should be restricted.

He talks to Nick about why he ended up so passionate about this subject, and warns of society falling into an "abyss" of political violence.

Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Sound: Ged Sudlow and Fiona Fairmaner
Editors: Giles Edwards and Leela Padmanabhan

Free Speech Tsar: Arif Ahmed on how to avoid the 'abyss' of political violence

In a bonus podcast for Political Thinking subscribers over the summer break, Chris Mason presents an edition of Archive on 4 about the accents of politics and the politics of accents. Political Thinking returns next week.

Bonus podcast: Could the PM have a Brummie accent?

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