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Civic Ventures

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

AI doomsdayers want us to believe mass job loss would be unprecedented. But Kathryn Anne Edwards has a sharp reminder: In the first five weeks of the pandemic, the U.S. economy shed 22.5 million jobs—larger than any single AI job-loss estimate she has seen. The difference was policy. Unemployment support, direct cash to families, and a strong public response helped workers survive the shock and helped the labor market recover.

This week, Nick and Paul talk with Edwards about what the pandemic recovery can teach us about AI, automation, unemployment, and the future of work. Why do AI debates so often treat workers as passive victims and government as irrelevant? What would a serious policy response to technological disruption look like? And why should we be skeptical of billionaires and tech leaders who insist that this time, unlike every other economic transition, they are uniquely important and special?

Kathryn Anne Edwards is a labor economist, independent policy consultant, Bloomberg Opinion columnist, economics influencer, and co-host of the Optimist Economy podcast. 

Social Media:

Instagram

Threads

TikTok 

Bluesky 

Twitter

Further reading: 

Optimist Economy Podcast

Bloomberg Opinion - AI Can Lead to a Fix of This Broken Government Program

Bloomberg Opinion - Is AI Coming for Your Job? A Bigger Government Can Help

Bloomberg Opinion - AI Anxiety Won’t Be Eased by Universal Basic Income

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

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Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: The Pitch

AI Job Loss Is Real. The Catastrophe Is Optional (with Kathryn Edwards)

Why have wages for working Americans stagnated for decades—even as productivity, corporate profits, and the wealth of the people at the top continued to rise?

The mainstream explanations are familiar: automation, globalization, education, or simply the unavoidable forces of the market—but wage stagnation was not inevitable. It was the result of policy choices.

This week, we’re revisiting a conversation with economists Lawrence Mishel and Josh Bivens about the decisions that reshaped the American economy, weakened worker bargaining power, and made it harder for working people to claim their share of the prosperity they helped create.

As we continue sharing more about Market Humanism—the idea that markets are human-built systems shaped by rules and power—this conversation feels especially relevant. The economy we have did not emerge naturally. It was built. And that means it can be rebuilt.

This episode originally aired on June 1, 2021.

Josh Bivens is the chief economist at the Economic Policy Institute. His research focuses on macroeconomics, inequality, social insurance, public investment, and the economics of globalization.

Larry Mishel is a distinguished fellow and former president of the Economic Policy Institute. His research focuses on labor economics, wages and income distribution, industrial relations, productivity growth, and the economics of education.

Social Media:

@joshbivens-econ.bsky.social

@joshbivens_DC

@larrymishel.bsky.social

@LarryMishel

Watch Nick on The Diary of a CEO

Nick recently joined Steven Bartlett and entrepreneur Daniel Priestley for a wide-ranging debate about the wealth divide, stagnant wages, artificial intelligence, and whether capitalism can still deliver broadly shared prosperity.

Watch the conversation on The Diary of a CEO.

Further reading ⬇️

Economic Policy Institute: Identifying the Policy Levers Generating Wage Suppression and Wage Inequality

Economic Policy Institute: The Productivity–Pay Gap

Economic Policy Institute: Wage Calculator: How Much More Would You Be Making If Pay Had Kept Pace With Productivity?

Roosevelt Institute: Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers

Roosevelt Institute: From Safety Net to Power Base: Reimagining, Not Restoring, the US Antipoverty System

Markets Built for Humans: A Guide for Policy Professionals to the New Economics

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

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YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics

LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics

Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

The Policy Choices That Suppressed American Wages (with Josh Bivens and Larry Mishel)

For the first time in Pitchfork Economics history, Nick Hanauer is on the other side of the mic.

Goldy and Paul sit down with Nick to discuss Market Humanism: the emerging economic paradigm he and Eric Beinhocker believe can replace the trickle-down ideas that have shaped American policymaking for the past 50 years.

Why have wages stagnated while inequality soared? Why does conventional economics treat policies that help ordinary people as threats to growth? And what changes when we recognize that markets are human-built institutions—not forces of nature?

The conversation exposes the failures of the old economic model, how power shapes who gets what and why, and why a fairer economy is also a more prosperous one.

Nick Hanauer is a Seattle-based entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and civic leader dedicated to building a more inclusive and sustainable economy. He is the founder of Civic Ventures, a public policy incubator, and co-host of the podcast Pitchfork Economics. A leading voice for “middle-out” economics, his commentary has appeared in The Atlantic, Politico, Bloomberg, and The New York Times. He is the author of The Gardens of Democracy , The True Patriot, and a frequent advocate for policies that put working people at the center of economic growth.

Social Media:

@nickhanauer.bsky.social

@NickHanauer

Further reading: 

Democracy Journal - Market Humanism: A New Paradigm for a New Era

The Atlantic - The Economic Experiment That Upended Reality

Markets Built for Humans - A Guide for Policy Professionals to the New Economics

The Gardens of Democracy

The True Patriot

Corporate Bullsh*t: Exposing the Lies and Half-Truths That Protect Profit, Power, and Wealth in America

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics

Threads: pitchforkeconomics

TikTok: @pitchfork_econ

YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics

LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics

Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Market Humanism: A New Operating System for the Economy (with Nick Hanauer)

This week, we’re sharing a special episode from Washington Monthly featuring Pitchfork Economics co-host Nick Hanauer and Oxford professor Eric Beinhocker in conversation with Anne Kim about Market Humanism.

For decades, American capitalism has been organized around efficiency, shareholder value, and the idea that prosperity naturally trickles down from the top. But as Nick and Eric explain, that story has failed on its own terms: inequality has exploded, workers have been squeezed, and democracy itself has become more fragile.

In this conversation, they make the case for a new economic paradigm they call market humanism: the idea that markets should be built to solve human problems, strengthen democracy, and improve people’s lives—not simply maximize returns for owners of capital.

If we want an economy that actually works, the question can’t be “How do we make markets more efficient for the wealthy?” It has to be: “How do we build markets that help people flourish?”

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

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Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

What Comes After Neoliberalism? (with Nick Hanauer & Eric Beinhocker)

Everyone wants more housing, more clean energy, more transit, more care infrastructure, and more of the things people need to live good lives. But too much of the “abundance” debate treats workers, unions, environmental review, and community voice as obstacles to building — instead of asking who has power, who benefits, and who gets left out.

This week, Goldy and Paul talk with Columbia professors Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez about their Roosevelt Institute report, Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers. They argue that the problem isn’t too much democracy — it’s too little. If we want to build at the scale this moment demands, we need an abundance agenda that puts workers, communities, and democratic power at the center from the start.

Kate Andrias is the Patricia D. and R. Paul Yetter Professor of Law at Columbia Law School, and serves as co-director of both the Columbia Law School Center for Constitutional Governance and the Columbia Labor Lab. Previously, she served as associate counsel and special assistant to President Barack Obama and as chief of staff in the White House Counsel’s Office.

Alexander Hertel-Fernandez is an associate professor and vice dean at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs, and serves as co-director of the Columbia Labor Lab. From 2021 to 2023, he served as a deputy assistant secretary in the Department of Labor and a senior fellow in the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs.

Further reading: 

Report: Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers

The American Political Economy: Politics, Markets, and Power

State Capture: How Conservative Activists, Big Businesses, and Wealthy Donors Reshaped the American States and the Nation

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics

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TikTok: @pitchfork_econ

YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics

LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics

Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

The Worker Power Missing From the Abundance Debate (with Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez)

The AI “cloud” sounds weightless. But behind every chat bot, every prompt, and every promise of a coming AI revolution is a massive physical footprint: hyperscale data centers consuming enormous amounts of land, electricity, water, and public subsidies.

This week, Nick and Goldy talk with Tim Murphy, national correspondent at Mother Jones, about his cover story on how the American oligarchy went hyperscale in the age of AI. Murphy has been reporting from communities across the country where residents are watching enormous data centers rise in their backyards, often with little transparency, few long-term jobs, and huge demands on local infrastructure.

The result is a familiar story: public risk, private reward. Tech billionaires get the profits. Communities get higher utility costs, depleted resources, tax breaks they may never recoup, and facilities that could become tomorrow’s stranded assets when the AI bubble bursts.

AI may be new. But the economic model behind this boom is very old: extract from communities, concentrate power at the top, and call it progress.

Tim Murphy is a national correspondent at Mother Jones.

Social Media:

@timothypmurphy.bsky.social

@timothypmurphy

@motherjones.com

@MotherJones

Further reading: 

Mother Jones - How the American Oligarchy Went Hyperscale

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics

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YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics

LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics

Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

How the AI Oligarchy Went Hyperscale (with Tim Murphy)

Billionaires are shaping everything from elections to education to climate policy—and they want us to believe it's generosity.

That’s why we’re re-airing this conversation with Anand Giridharadas, author of Winners Take All, on the power of elite philanthropy—and why it can’t fix the inequality it helps sustain.

Giridharadas breaks down how modern philanthropy allows the ultra-wealthy to “give back” on their own terms, while avoiding the kinds of structural changes—like higher taxes, stronger labor standards, and real regulation—that would actually redistribute power and opportunity. Yes, philanthropy can do good. But it can also function as a pressure valve—easing public outrage while leaving the underlying system intact.

If you’ve been following the surge in billionaire political spending, debates over wealth taxes, or the outsized influence of private foundations, this conversation will hit differently now, Because the real question isn’t whether the rich should give more.

It’s why they get to decide in the first place.

Anand Giridharadas is a writer and political analyst focused on inequality, power, and democracy. He is the author of multiple books, including the national bestseller Winners Take All and The Persuaders. Giridharadas is an editor-at-large for TIME, an on-air analyst for MSNBC, and the publisher of the newsletter The.Ink, where he writes about politics, money, and power. He is also a visiting scholar at the Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute at New York University.

Listen to Eric Beinhocker discuss Market Humanism on Hal Singer’s podcast The Slingshot.

Social Media:

@anandwrites.bsky.social

anandwrites

@AnandWrites

Further reading: 

Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World

The Persuaders: At the Front Lines of the Fight for Hearts, Minds, and Democracy

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics

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TikTok: @pitchfork_econ

YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics

LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics

Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: The Pitch

Why Philanthropy [STILL] Isn’t the Answer with (with Anand Giridharadas)

Crypto is back—new hype cycles, rising prices, and fresh promises that this time cryptocurrency is changing the financial system for good. But the questions haven’t changed: is this innovation or just another wave of speculation, scams, and financial fraud?

That’s why we’re revisiting this conversation with actor and author Ben McKenzie—whose bestselling book Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud and new documentary, Everyone is Lying to You For Money are once again fueling the debate over crypto’s real impact.

What started as curiosity became a deeper look at how the crypto boom blurred the line between investing and gambling—and what that reveals about an economy increasingly driven by speculation instead of real value. McKenzie joins Nick and Goldy to pull back the curtain on the hype, the believers, and the system that made it all possible.

Ben McKenzie is an actor, author, and director best known for his roles on The O.C., Southland, and Gotham. A graduate of the University of Virginia with a degree in economics and foreign affairs, he has emerged as a leading critic of the cryptocurrency industry. He is the co-author, with journalist Jacob Silverman, of Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud, and has expanded that work into a documentary, Everyone is Lying to You For Money , examining the rise—and risks—of crypto.

Social Media:

@benmckenzie.bsky.social

mrbenmckenzie

@ben_mckenzie

Further reading: 

Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud

When Prophecy Fails

Mistakes Were Made (but Not By Me)

⁠Everyone is Lying to You For Money

New York Magazine: Congress Just Injected Crypto Directly Into the Most Stable Part of the Economy. What could go wrong?

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

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Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Crypto, Cryptocurrency Scams, and the Illusion of Easy Money (with Ben McKenzie)

The social safety net wasn’t supposed to work like this.

Decades of neoliberal choices from politicians in both parties reshaped it—turning what was meant to support people into a system that often leaves them stuck.

This week, Jamie Keene, a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute and former Biden White House policy advisor, joins us to break down how we got here—and why today’s anti-poverty system can actually reinforce the very conditions it’s meant to solve.

From requirements that trap workers in low-wage jobs to public programs that quietly subsidize those business models, we unpack how the system evolved—and what it would take to turn it into a system that actually gives people power.

Jamie Keene is a stratification economics fellow at the Roosevelt Institute and a former White House policy advisor on equality and opportunity. She is also the author of From Safety Net to Power Base: Reimagining, Not Restoring, the US Antipoverty System.

Further reading: 

From Safety Net to Power Base: Reimagining, Not Restoring, the US Antipoverty System

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

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Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

From Safety Net to Power Base: Reclaiming Economic Power for Working People (with Jamie Keene)

Would it be a surprise if we told you the rich don’t actually live in the same tax system as everyone else?

Tomorrow is Tax Day, when millions of Americans will be filing their taxes or applying for extensions, so Nick and Goldy sit down with Ray D. Madoff, Professor of Tax Law at Boston College, and author of The Second Estate, to pull back the curtain on how wealth really moves—and why so much of it never gets taxed at all.

Because here’s the twist: The system wasn’t supposed to work this way.

But over time, something changed. Now, the people who live off paychecks carry the tax burden… while the people living off wealth often don’t have to play the game at all.

Professor Madoff explains what happened and what it would take to fix it. 

Ray D. Madoff is a professor at Boston College Law School and director of the Forum on Philanthropy and the Public Good. She is a leading expert on tax policy, wealth, and philanthropy, and author of The Second Estate: How the Tax Code Made an American Aristocracy.

Social Media:

@raymadoff

Further reading: 

The Second Estate: How the Tax Code Made an American Aristocracy.

The Atlantic - How to Tax Billionaires

CNBC - Lawsuit over $21 million donor-advised fund highlights risks of DAF giving

Washington Post - A Signature GOP Issue Is Omitted From Trump’s ‘Big’ Tax Bill. Weird

New York Times - America Builds an Aristocracy

Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com

Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast

Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social

Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics

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LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics

Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer

Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

AI Job Loss Is Real. The Catastrophe Is Optional (with Kathryn Edwards)

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