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NHPR

Outside/In: Where curiosity and the natural world collide.

Look around, and you’ll find everything is connected to the natural world. At Outside/In, we explore that idea with boundless curiosity. We report from disaster zones, pickleball courts, and dog sled kennels, and talk about policy, pop culture, science, and everything in between. From the backcountry to your backyard, we tell stories that expand the boundaries of environmental journalism. 

Outside/In is a production of NHPR. Learn more at outsideinradio.org

Outside/In

In 2009, the state of Maine ordered farmer Dan Brown to stop selling his raw milk. It kicked off a five-year legal battle that stoked the flames of Maine’s dairy wars. But, after Farmer Brown lost his case and hung up his milking hat, things quieted down. 

Twenty years later, raw milk has surged back into the zeitgeist. Influencers are saying it tastes like ice cream, RFK Jr. is taking shots of it at the White House, and Gwyneth Paltrow is putting it in her coffee.

All of which makes for a pretty obvious question… What’s the appeal? Is raw milk some kind of superfood? Or something to avoid at all costs? 

Featuring Dan Brown, Andy Bisson, Danny Bisson, Nicole Martin, Pamela Ruegg, and Mary McGonigle-Martin.

SUPPORT

To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram and BlueSky, or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

For a comprehensive history of dairy check out Milk! A 10,000 Year History by Mark Kurlansky.

During the height of Dan Brown’s case he gave a speech to a rousing crowd in Blue Hill. You can watch that here. 

The debate over raw vs. pasteurized milk has been happening for a long time. The Milk Question by Milton Joseph Rosenau is a fascinating (we daresay, poetic) read. 

The Pasteurized Milk Ordinance is a nearly 500-page document that outlines the intricacies of milk regulation in the U.S. Here’s its most current version. 

The FDA fact-checks many different raw milk claims ⁠on this page⁠, including pasteurization's affect on vitamin content and potential probiotic benefit.

CREDITS 

Produced by Marina Henke. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org
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The Raw Milk Question

In 2023, dozens of strangers gathered together in the Catskill Mountains of upstate New York for three straight days. Their mission? Teach people of color how to kill, gut, and butcher a deer for the first time.

Producer Felix Poon was there as a first-time hunter. He wanted to know: what does it feel like to take an animal's life to sustain your own? Given the opportunity… would he pull the trigger?

In this episode we follow Felix out of his depth and into the woods, to find out if one weekend can convert a longtime city-dweller into a dedicated deer hunter.

This episode was first published in early 2024, and was produced by Felix Poon. 

For a transcript and full list of credits, go to outsideinradio.com. Featuring Dorothy Ren, Brandon Dale, and Brant MacDuff.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. ⁠Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. ⁠

Follow Outside/In on ⁠Instagram⁠ or join our private ⁠discussion group on Facebook⁠.

LINKS⁠

Lydia Parker, executive director of Hunters of Color, discusses how to make the outdoors more equitable⁠. (The Nature Conservancy)⁠

Melissa Harris-Perry talks to Brandon Dale⁠, the New York ambassador for the Hunters of Color organization, on WNYC’s The Takeaway.

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Hunting Party

A fishing tycoon is arrested in an elaborate sting operation, but claims he’s the real hero fighting back against an overbearing state. So who is Carlos “The Codfather” Rafael really – a folk hero, a crook, a righteous rebel, or a selfish conman?

This week we’re sharing the first episode from “Catching The Codfather,” the third season of GBH’s hit podcast The Big Dig. It’s a series about fishing regulations disguised as a true crime caper unlike any you’ve heard before. 

Produced by Ian Coss and Isabel Hibbard. To hear the rest of the series, subscribe to The Big Dig wherever you get your podcasts. 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.
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Catching the Codfather

There’s few certainties in life. But the sun will always rise, the seasons will change, and the Outside/Inbox will forever remain answered. 

From lighthouse paint hues to polar bear lovers, this week the team takes up your questions on all things red. 

 What makes cardinals red? 

 Why do albino animals have red eyes? ⁠

 ⁠Why are so many lighthouses painted red? ⁠

 Do our dogs love us? 

 ⁠Do some animals have same-sex relationships?⁠

 ⁠How do environmental changes affect pair-bonding? ⁠

Featuring Alex Funk, Jeremy D'Entremont, Karyn Anderson, and Francesco Ventura. 

Thanks to Outside/In listeners Liz, Tyler, Monica and Lera for their questions.

We’re looking for new submissions to the Outside/Inbox! Give us your weirdest, nichest, most bizarre questions you can think of. Send us those questions by recording yourself on a voice memo, and emailing that to us at outsidein@nhpr.org. Or you can call our hotline: 1-844-GO-OTTER.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. ⁠Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. ⁠

Follow Outside/In on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠BlueSky⁠, or join our private ⁠discussion group on Facebook⁠.

LINKS

Here’s Karyn’s paper on how ⁠same-sex behavior⁠ in animals is far more common than previously thought. 

Olney, Illinois is known as “the home of the white squirrels.” Learn more about ⁠how they’re trying to protect these rare albino animals⁠ in this small Midwest town.

Here’s the ⁠Northeast District’s 2025 US Light List⁠, which lists an astounding 40,000 different lights, sound signals, and other visual aids to navigation.

Francesco Ventura’s paper analyzing divorce rates in albatrosses came out in 2021. ⁠You can find it here⁠. 

CREDITS

Produced by Marina Henke, Felix Poon and Nate Hegyi. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org
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Red is the warmest color

Hemp used to be a staple of life in America. King James I demanded that colonists produce it. Hemp rope and fabric were ubiquitous throughout the 18th and 19th centuries. The USDA even produced a WWII newsreel called “Hemp for Victory.”

But other materials came to replace hemp – wood pulp for paper, and cotton and synthetics for fabric. Why?

For that matter, what is hemp? Is it different from weed? And does it actually have 25,000 uses as its proponents claim?

Featuring Hector “Freedom” Gerardo, David Suchoff, John Fike, and Danny Desjarlais.

Note: This episode originally aired in April, 2024.
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Reefer madness and the future of hemp

A few weeks ago, Nate gathered a group of storytellers in front of a live audience in Portsmouth, N.H. to celebrate 10 years of Outside/In. From goats to ghosts and ill-fated coloring book pages, this motley crew of storytellers explored the theme of metamorphosis in a changing world. 

 If you’ve got a special moment or episode from Outside/In’s long history, we’d love to hear about it. Send us a note at outsidein@nhpr.org. 

Featuring Gretchen Legler, Kianny Antigua, Sara Lamagna, Jake Lewis, Aubrey Nelson, Dave Anderson 

Produced by Taylor Quimby and Zoë Mitchell. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Check out Gretchen Legler’s blog, where she writes about all sorts of nature and farm-inspired subjects, here. 

More on the work of Kianny Antigua can be found on her website. 

Listen to Sarah Lamagna’s interview for a previous episode of Outside/In, where she and Taylor talk about tricking kids into loving hiking. 

Interested in learning more about Aubrey Nelson's call for "more purposeful, real-world education?" You can contact her "Ecosystem of Educationeers" via this form. 

Listen to more musings from naturalist Dave Anderson on NHPR’s Something Wild. 

If you want to hear more of Nate’s music, check out “Snoweater on Bandcamp. 
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Goats, Ghosts, and Roadkill [Live stories from Portsmouth]

Ravens get a bad rap in western culture. They’re an ominous symbol of death, considered “unclean” by the bible, and star in Edgar Allen Poe’s haunting gothic poem, “The Raven.” A group of ravens is called an “unkindness.” What a burn.

But host Nate Hegyi is on a mission to show that we should give the raven a bit more credit. It’s one of the most intelligent creatures on earth — an animal that can use tools like a chimpanzee, speak like a parrot, do tricks like a dog, and investigate murders like Sherlock Holmes. 

So today on the show, another edition of our ongoing series, Holy Scat: raven edition.

Featuring Sophie Nilles and Will Geiger.

Produced by Nate Hegyi. For a transcript and full list of credits, go to ⁠outsideinradio.org⁠. 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Dr. Kaeli Swift is one of the foremost corvid researchers on the planet, and she’s done a deep dive into corvid funerals. 

Here’s the study that shows ravens parallel great apes in terms of intelligence.

If you want a real creepy experience, you should watch Vincent Price recite Edgar Allen Poe’s ‘The Raven.’

Need more raven stories from southeast Alaska? The Sealaska Heritage Institute just published a collection. 

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That's so raven

After the Irish fought for and won their independence from the British in 1921, they had a problem. Centuries of exploitation had left the island one of the least forested nations in Europe, with less than 2% tree cover. 

So, they started planting a non-native American tree: fast-growing Sitka spruce capable of rebuilding their timber resources in record time. And it worked. Today, about 17% of the island is forested. But in the rural areas where iconic rolling hills have been replaced by rows and rows of conifers, farmers are not happy. 

Outside/In host Nate Hegyi takes us to County Leitrim, an area of Ireland hit hard by the Troubles and the Great Famine, to meet the townspeople who are fighting what they say is a new wave of colonialism: Sitka spruce plantations.

Featuring Justin Warnock, Brian Smyth, Donal Magner, Liam Byrne and Jodie Asselin.

This episode originally aired in March 2025.

Produced by Nate Hegyi. For a transcript and full list of credits, go to outsideinradio.org. 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Donal Magner wrote a book covering the history of Ireland’s forests and timber industry. 

Sitka spruce plantations are controversial in other parts of Ireland as well, including Cork. 

There are also efforts to rewild parts of Ireland with entirely native trees and to protect and restore carbon-sequestering bogs. 

It can be really tough to figure out exactly what was growing in Ireland thousands of years ago – but these scientists used ancient pollen counts to figure it out.

Researchers at University College Dublin produced a detailed socio-economic impact report on Sitka spruce plantations and County Leitrim in 2019.
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The Emerald Forest

A New Hampshire town finds out its water has been contaminated by a chemical. The most basic question — whether the water is safe to drink — doesn’t have a clear answer. Nobody seems to know much about this so-called forever chemical, which is weird… because all of this has all happened before.

From the Document team at New Hampshire Public Radio, Safe to Drink is a four-part series about a water contamination story that keeps repeating in town after town — and about the people who fought for answers through a maze of chemistry, regulations, and illnesses.

You can binge the whole series now: subscribe to Safe to Drink on Apple Podcasts, or check out their page on NHPR’s website. 

Reported by Mara Hoplamazian. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Celebrate our 10th anniversary with us! Join the Outside/In team for Stories from Outside on Friday, Feb. 6, at 7 p.m. at 3S Artspace in Portsmouth. Tickets are available here.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Safe to Drink, Episode 1: You don’t know about this?

Last week, we talked about the ethics and regulations around sending private citizens to space, but one thing we didn’t linger on much was the lasting impact of Christa McAuliffe; the teacher slated to become the first private citizen to space before she was killed in the Challenger disaster. 

So today, we’ve got a series of stories and interviews that are all part of NHPR’s series “Remembering Christa: 40 Years After the Challenger.” 

We’ll hear from a local journalist that covered her story, the students she mentored, and the community charged with remembering her legacy. 

Produced by Patrick McNameeKing. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Grab a ticket for our 10 year anniversary live show here! 

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Remembering Christa

The Sununus are one of New Hampshire's grandest families. John H. Sununu was governor and White House Chief of Staff. One of his sons, John E. Sununu, was a U.S. congressman and senator, and another, Chris Sununu, is governor today. In their roles of political power, all of these men have faced a different landscape with regard to climate change, and what it means to be a Republican. Today, we track that party's evolution on the subject, through the frame of this one family.

For full versions of several of the interviews in this episode, head to our website outsideinradio.org

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The Family Business

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