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NHPR

Outside/In: Where curiosity and the natural world collide.

Look around, and you’ll find everything is connected to the natural world. At Outside/In, we explore that idea with boundless curiosity. We report from disaster zones, pickleball courts, and dog sled kennels, and talk about policy, pop culture, science, and everything in between. From the backcountry to your backyard, we tell stories that expand the boundaries of environmental journalism. 

Outside/In is a production of NHPR. Learn more at outsideinradio.org

Outside/In

Fungi used to be considered plants. Bad plants. Carl Linnaeus even referred to them as “the poorest peasants” of the vegetable class. This reputation stuck, and fungi were considered a nuisance in the Western world well into the 20th century.

Patricia Ononiwu Kaishian is trying to rewrite that narrative. Her new book, Forest Euphoria: The Abounding Queerness of Nature catalogs fungi that sprout from the shells of beetles, morph with their sexual partners into one being and exhibit as many as 23,000 mating types. 

Patty believes that fungi’s ability to defy our cut and dry assumptions about the natural world is actually their superpower. All it takes is to first accept that they’re queer as heck. 

Featuring Patricia Ononiwu Kaishian. 

Produced by Marina Henke. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

You can find Patty’s new book Forest Euphoria at your local bookstore or online. 

Local to Albany? Visit the fungi exhibit that Marina toured at the New York State Museum: Outcasts: Mary Banning’s World of Mushrooms.

Patty has had the chance to name several new species of fungi. In 2021 she published an article documenting those species, with some pretty great photos of laboulbeniales (those are the fungi that grow from arthropod shells). 

Check out C. L. Porter’s 1969 address to the Indiana Academy of Sciences where he critiques fellow mycologists for being “meek.” It’s brutal.

One of Patty’s favorite films is Microcosmos, a 1996 French documentary that investigates the daily interactions of insects. It’s not direct mushroom content per se, but it is beautiful.

Taxonomy's 200-Year Mistake

Last spring, a curious listener called with an unusual question about coyote urine. Is it – as advertised by companies who sell it – an effective, all natural pest deterrent? And more importantly: “Who are the coyotes that are providing this urine?”

Since then, producer Taylor Quimby has been trying to find out… and with literal gallons of the stuff available online, he discovered the answers aren’t pretty. 

Today on Outside/In, we peek inside the unregulated Pandora’s box of urine farming. Does it work? Is it ethical? And is anybody willing to actually talk about it? 

Featuring Jeannie Bartlett, Caroline Long, Ed Brookmyer, Laura Koivula. 

Produced by Taylor Quimby. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

This 1998 study assessed coyote urine as a deterrent for deer, and found (with some caveats) a 15-24% reduction in deer browsing after exposure to the urine. 

However, coyote urine had no measurable effect on the deer browsing of yew saplings in this more recent study. 

Websites for some coyote urine brands, like PredatorPee.com and Shake-away animal repellents, claim that they source urine from regulated farms that treat animals humanely, but did not provide more information when asked. 

This article from Cleveland.com

 details the conditions at The Grand River Fur Exchange, a fur and urine farm where hundreds of animals were found in poor condition after the owner’s death.

People are buying coyote urine. Where does it come from?

It’s a weird time to be an environmental scientist. The proposed cuts to federal science funding in the United States are profound, and if they come to pass, it’s not clear what American science will look like on the other side. But for many researchers, science is much more than a career: it’s a community, lifestyle, and sometimes even a family business. 

Outside/In producer Justine Paradis tagged along with researchers in the field to learn what it’s like to be a scientist right now. We visit one of the oldest atmospheric monitoring stations in the country, and venture onto the Finger Lakes with an ad-hoc group of researchers struggling to understand an emerging threat to water quality: harmful algal blooms.

This is a glimpse of the people behind the headlines, navigating questions both personal and professional, and trying to find ways to continue their work, even as much of their funding is simultaneously collapsing around them. 

Featuring Bob Howarth, Joshua Thienpont, Irena Creed, Nico Trick, Anita Dedić, and Tom Butler, with appearances from Roxanne Marino, Renee Santoro, and Garreth Smith. 

 

SUPPORT

To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Subscribe to our newsletter (it’s free!).

Follow Outside/In on Instagram and BlueSky, or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

 

LINKS

NY67, one of the oldest atmospheric monitoring stations in the U.S., was established by Gene Likens, who helped discover acid rain in the 1960s (The Guardian). 

More on the cuts to the National Science Foundation from The Guardian. It references a Federal Reserve Bank analysis, finding that for every dollar spent on R&D by the major federal agencies, there’s been a return to U.S. taxpayers of $1.50-$3.00—in other words, 150-300%.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science has been tracking the federal science budget for decades, and publishes an ongoing analysis breaking down the proposed cuts.

A map tracking harmful algal blooms in New York State. 

In the early 2000s, some wondered if seeding the ocean with iron could be a climate solution. They hoped that the iron would trigger the growth of marine phytoplankton and sequester carbon in the ocean. But when Charlie Trick and his colleagues studied it, they learned it had unintended consequences: it triggered the growth of highly toxic algal blooms.

A paper on the rise of ammonia, using data from the National Atmospheric Deposition Program and co-authored by Tom Butler.

A letter condemning the proposed cuts to science in FY26, signed by more than 1200 members of the National Academy of Sciences.

 

CREDITS 

Produced by Justine Paradis. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

Field reports from the cutting edge of science

Helium is full of contradictions. It’s the second most abundant element in the universe, but is relatively rare on Earth. It’s non-reactive, totally inert—yet the most valuable helium isotope is sourced from thermonuclear warheads. 

And even though we treat it as a disposable gas, often for making funny voices and single-use party balloons, our global supply of helium will eventually run out. That’s because, at a rate of about 50 grams per second, this non-renewable resource is escaping the atmosphere for good. 

In this edition of The Element of Surprise, our occasional series about the hidden histories behind the periodic table’s most unassuming atoms, we examine the incredible properties and baffling economics of our most notable noble gas. 

Featuring Anjali Tripathi and William Halperin. 

This episode was produced by Taylor Quimby and first released in 2024. For a full list of credits and a transcript, go to outsideinradio.org. 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Subscribe to our newsletter to get occasional emails about new show swag, call-outs for listener submissions, and other announcements. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Read John Paul Merkle’s petition arguing to change the name of helium to “helion.”

Despite being about a quarter century old, this passage from “The Impact of Selling the Federal Helium Reserve” has a pretty comprehensive list of the uses and properties of helium.

More on the recent sale of the Federal Helium Reserve (NBC News)

Physicist William Halperin said the idea of mining helium-3 on the moon was… unlikely… but that hasn’t stopped this startup company from trying it. (Wired)

Want to learn more about the weird history of American airships? Check out this film produced by the U.S. government in 1937, when they were still hoping to keep our airship program afloat.

The Element of Surprise: The $1,000 Balloon

“In the last days of the fourth world I wished to make a map for those who would climb through the hole in the sky.”

That’s the first line of the poem “A Map to the Next World” by Muscogee writer and former U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo. It’s a piece that’s inspired Aquinnah Wampanoag writer Joseph Lee as he undertakes one of journalism's most nuanced beats: covering hundreds of unique tribal communities. 

Sometimes those stories fit into neat narratives – about how tribes are restoring nature and winning back land – but that’s not always the case. What's it like covering Indigenous communities responding and adapting to climate change? And how are these tribes thinking about their futures? We talk to Joseph Lee about some of the stories he’s covered, and his own attempt to make a map to the next world. 

Featuring Joseph Lee.

Produced by Felix Poon. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

 

LINKS

“A Map to the Next World,” is the title of a poem by Muscogee poet Joy Harjo.

Nothing More of This Land is a new book from award-winning journalist Joseph Lee, about Indigenous identity and the challenges facing Indigenous people around the world.

Read Joseph Lee’s reporting on:

 • The 
Northwestern Shoshone’s restoration work to the Bear River • (Vox)
 • The controversy over 
a proposed gold mine in the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta • (Grist)
The Shinnecock tribe’s response to sea-level rise in the Hamptons

A Map to the Next World

In 1970, marine architect Charlie Canby got an odd assignment: Design a 600-foot ship for an undisclosed purpose and an undisclosed customer. Only after it was built did he finally find out what it was for. 

“I was dumbfounded,” he said. “I drove away in a daze. I could not believe what we were really doing.”

In this episode, reporter Daniel Ackerman tells the unbelievable story of a boat, a government conspiracy, and the birth of a new industry that could change the way we look at oceans forever. 

Featuring Charlie Canby, Andrew Thaler, Wernher Krutein, and Hank Philippi Ryan

Produced by Daniel Ackerman. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Check out this 1975 New York Times article published after reporters discovered the true mission of the Glomar Explorer.

A corporate update for shareholders detailing The Metals Company’s recent test of deep-sea mining. 

Another archival report from The New York Times details the SEC investigation into whether investors in the Glomar Explorer were misled.

The Trojan Seahorse

Today on Outside/In, we’re sharing an episode from our friends and partners at Common Land.

Common Land explores the creation stories behind protected land. Each season takes a deep dive into the history, science and politics behind the creation of one particular patch of protected, common land.

Season two of Common Land, produced in partnership with New Hampshire Public Radio, follows documentarian Matthew Podolsky as he attempts to thru-hike the Appalachian Trail with his 65-year-old mom, Candy. Matt and his mom face extreme weather, illness, and injury as they trek 2,200 miles from Georgia to Maine. Along the way, Matt shares stories of remarkable people, surprising history, and the modern challenges facing the Appalachian Trail — all as the iconic footpath marks its 100th anniversary.

You can listen to episode two of the new season right now, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you prefer to listen. 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

A 2,200 Mile Podcast

When the smash-success Jurassic Park first hit theaters in 1993, it inspired a generation of dinophiliacs and helped to usher in a new “golden age of paleontology.” 

But it also froze the public’s perception of dinosaurs in time, and popularized inaccuracies that people still believe are true today. 

So what happens when the biggest source of information on a scientific field comes from a fictional monster movie? In this episode, three Jurassic Park super-fans (one paleontologist and two podcasters) try to sort it all out. 

Featuring Gabriel-Philip Santos.

This episode was originally published in 2022. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

 

SUPPORT

To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram, BlueSky, Tiktok, or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

 

LINKS

Want to learn more about dinosaurs? Check the publish date before you check it out from the library! And here are some good options:

Smithsonian’s The Dinosaur Book (pretty much all of the Smithsonian books are good for younger readers)

Want to get a more global perspective of where dinosaurs have been discovered? Check out a dinosaur atlas book. 

For older readers, or anybody who loves a good coffee table book, check out this entry featuring a number of excellent paleoartists: Dinosaur Art II (Taylor has the first one and loves to show it off). 

Also: A truly disheartening read about people who think feathered dinosaurs are an attack on masculinity.

What Jurassic Park got wrong (and right) about dinosaurs

In this episode, we’re taking your questions on the subject of sound. We talk about tinnitus, “the mind’s ear,” and the celebrity voices we have strong feelings about, from Bob Ross to President Obama, Michael Barbaro to Ira Glass.

So strap your earbuds in, we’re going for a ride!

 1. What are tintinnabula, and the first wind chimes in the world?
What exactly is ASMR, and what makes it feel good? 2. Why does my cat make twitter sounds when she sees birds?
Why do frogs sing together around the same tiny pond? 3. If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Does the environment influence the evolution of a language? 4. If we have a “mind’s eye” do we have a “mind’s ear?”
What’s tinnitus?
Featuring Ilija Dankovic, Craig Richard, Alejandro Vélez, Seán Roberts, Sarah Theodoroff, and Tara Zaugg.

For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In.

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Check out these 3D models of a tintinnabulum held by the British Museum.

The ASMR clips used in this episode are from @CelainesASMR, Coromo Sara. ASMR, @ASMRCrinkle, and @marlenaasmr481. If you want to listen to Craig Richard’s ASMR podcasts, they are Sleep Whispers, and Calm History.

Learn more about the effect drier climates might have on language, especially tonal ones, and about the overlap between biodiversity and language diversity.

For more information about tinnitus from the VA, check out the National Center for Rehabilitative Auditory Research.

Phallic windchimes and ASMR: the magic of sound

Green grass grows everywhere: on baseball fields, in backyards, in front of strip malls. Collectively, we spend billions of dollars every year keeping them fertilized and watered.

But lawns cost more than money in Western states like Utah. Despite a severe drought, residents of Utah’s towns and cities use more water per capita than any other place in the nation, and a majority of that water goes right into lawns. That’s helping fuel an environmental disaster that could wipe out one of America’s largest inland seas.

In this episode, first produced in 2022, we trace the 600-year history of lawns, explore how they became a symbol of power, wealth, and Whiteness in America, and share tips on how to make a yard more environmentally responsible.

Featuring: Malin Curry, Ira Curry, Kelly Kopp, Zach Frankel, Karen Stenehjel

 Produced by Nate Hegyi. For a full list of credits, go to outsideinradio.org.

Lawn and Order

Bengal cat is an attempt to preserve the image of a leopard in the body of a house cat — using a wild animal’s genes, while leaving out the wild animal personality. But is it possible to isolate the parts of a wild animal that you like, and forgo the parts that you don’t?

Can you have your leopard rosette, and your little cat too?

Loser Wolves: A Cat Fancy

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