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BBC Radio 4

Tim Harford explains - and sometimes debunks - the numbers and statistics used in political debate, the news and everyday life

More or Less: Behind the Stats

Could European Nato members use their large holdings of US shares and bonds to put pressure on America? It’s a question that some in Europe found themselves asking as the geopolitical crisis over Greenland escalated and leaders desperately tried to think of ways to dissuade Donald Trump. 
 
It is true that trillions of dollars of American financial assets are held in Europe. But the devil, as ever, is in the detail. 
 
Tim Harford talks to Toby Nangle, a journalist with the Financial Times, to drill down into the numbers.

Presenter: Tim Harford
Producer: Nathan Gower
Series Producer: Tom Colls
Editor: Richard Vadon
Programme Coordinator: Brenda Brown 
Sound Engineer: James Beard

Could Europe use its financial muscle to strong-arm the US?

Tim Harford investigates some of the numbers in the news. This week:

Is it true that someone needs to earn £71,000 before they receive more money than a family on benefits?

Did Canadian prime minister Mark Carney get the GDP of Canada and the Nordic countries wrong?

Are 1990s pop icons Right Said Fred right about what they said about church attacks?

Is a sauna really ten times as hot as Wales in the winter?

And Tim hits the science lab treadmill to find out if he can run a four-hour marathon.

If you’ve seen a number in the news you want the team on More or Less to have a look at, email moreorless@bbc.co.uk

Contributors:
Gareth Morgan, benefits expert and author of the Benefits in the Future blog
Joe Shalam, policy director of the Centre for Social Justice
Professor Kelly Morrison, head of physics at Loughborough University
Dr Danny Muniz, a senior lecturer in Exercise Physiology at the University of Hertfordshire

Credits:
Presenter: Tim Harford
Reporters: Nathan Gower, Lizzy McNeill and Tom Colls
Production co-ordinator: Brenda Brown
Sound mix: Gareth Jones and James Beard
Editor: Richard Vadon

Can you get £71,000 on benefits?

The vast island of Greenland has found itself at the centre of a geopolitical crisis. But a little bit of geography can help us see the situation in a new light.

YouTuber and map expert Jay Foreman explains how Mercator maps - the maps that the vast majority of us use to understand the world - contain necessary but massive distortions and hugely exaggerate the size of the Arctic island. 

So, why is making a flat map of a round globe so difficult? Why did we end up with a problematic map in the first place? And are there any alternatives?

Presenter: Tim Harford
Producer: Nathan Gower
Series Producer: Tom Colls
Editor: Richard Vadon
Programme Coordinator: Brenda Brown 
Sound Engineer: James Beard

Is Greenland as big as Africa?

Tim Harford investigates some of the numbers in the news. This week: 

How far away is Greenland from the United States? We check a number From Our Own Correspondent. 

Does converting our entire energy system to be carbon neutral come with a £7.6 trillion price tag?

Is the inevitable rise of house prices in the UK not so inevitable after all? 

Can the great mathematicians of history answer the question of the hour: how to play The Traitors? 

If you’ve seen a number in the news you want the team on More or Less to have a look at, email moreorless@bbc.co.uk

Contributors: 
Jay Foreman, one half of YouTube duo the Map Men 
Mike Thompson, chief economist of the National Energy System Operator 
David Turver, author of The Cost of Net Zero, a report from the Institute of Economic Affairs 
Neal Hudson, housing market analyst and founder housing research website BuiltPlace 
Dr Kat Phillips, mathematician and Innovation research associate at the University of Warwick, Traitors aficionado 

Credits: 
Presenter: Tim Harford 
Reporter: Tom Colls 
Producers: Nathan Gower and Lizzy McNeill 
Production co-ordinator: Brenda Brown 
Sound mix: James Beard 
Editor: Richard Vadon

How close is Greenland to the United States?

In Autumn 2025 a paper in South Korea was published that excited many a vaccine sceptic online. The paper claimed that receiving a vaccination against Covid19 was linked to a 27% increase in cancer risk. 

However, when you dig into the data there is no evidence that the vaccine caused the cancer. We spoke to Professor Justin Fendos to explain why we cannot take this type of statistical analysis at face value. 

Presenter: Tim Harford
Producer: Lizzy McNeill
Series Producer: Tom Colls
Editor: Richard Vadon
Production Coordinator: Brenda Brown
Sound Mix: James Beard

No, a study has not shown that the covid jab causes cancer

Tim Harford investigates some of the numbers in the news. This week: A headline in the Mail says more than 100 private schools have closed since Labour came to power and ended the VAT exemption for private schools. Is that number right? 

Is it true that when Covid hit the UK, a one-week delay in imposing lockdown led to 23,000 deaths? 

Do 10 million families rely on X as their main source of news? That’s what government spokesperson Baroness Ruth Anderson said in the House of Lords, but is it correct? 

s there really a “quiet revival” of Christian worship? Two YouGov polls found churchgoing had gone up by 50% between 2018 and 2024 in England and Wales. New polling data suggests otherwise. 

If you’ve seen a number in the news you want the team on More or Less to have a look at, email moreorless@bbc.co.uk 

Contributors: 
Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter, Emeritus Professor of Statistics in the Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge 
Professor Sir John Curtice, Senior Research Fellow at the National Centre for Social Research 

Credits: 
Presenter: Tim Harford 
Reporters: Tom Colls and Nathan Gower 
Producers: Charlotte McDonald and Lizzy McNeill 
Production co-ordinator: Brenda Brown 
Sound mix: Gareth Jones Editor: Richard Vadon

Have more than 100 private schools been forced to close because of VAT?

When people think of oil rich nations their mind generally goes to Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the US. 

But according to international statistics, the country with the largest oil reserves is Venezuela, with 300 billion barrels worth. 

At their peak they produced over 3.5 million barrels of the stuff per day. However, due to lack of investment, sanctions and mismanagement that peak is long gone. 

Following their military intervention, the US administration claims they can get Venezuela's oil production up and running at full capacity within 18 months.

But can they, and why is it that estimates for other countries oil reserves have fluctuated but Venezuela’s has stayed at 300 billion barrels for over two decades? 

Presenter: Tim Harford
Producer: Lizzy McNeill
Series Producer: Tom Colls
Editor: Richard Vadon
Production Co-Ordinator: Brenda Brown
Sound Mix: Dave O’Neill

Does Venezuela really have the biggest oil reserves in the world?

What kind of state does the UK find itself in as we start 2026? That’s the question Tim Harford and the More or Less team is trying to answer in a series of five special programmes.

In the final episode, we’re looking at the numbers behind some of the UK’s most potent political debates:

Has 98% of the UK’s population growth come from immigration?

Do we spend more on benefits in the UK than in other high-income countries?

Is the gap between rich and poor growing?

Get in touch if you’ve seen a number in the news you think we should take a look at: moreorless@bbc.co.uk

Contributors:

Madeleine Sumption, Director of the Migration Observatory at Oxford University
Lukas Lehner, Assistant Professor at the University of Edinburgh
Arun Advani, Director of the Centre for the Analysis of Taxation and a Professor of Economics at the University of Warwick.
Alex Scholes, Research Director at NatCen

Credits:

Presenter: Tim Harford
Producers: Lizzy McNeill, Nathan Gower, Katie Solleveld and Charlotte McDonald
Series producer: Tom Colls
Production co-ordinator: Maria Ogundele
Sound mix: Sarah Hockley and James Beard
Editor: Richard Vadon

The Stats of the Nation: Immigration, benefits and inequality

What kind of state does the UK find itself in as we start 2026? That’s the question Tim Harford and the More or Less team is trying to answer in a series of five special programmes.

In the fourth episode, we’re searching for answers to these questions:

Are one in four pensioners millionaires?

Is England’s education system performing better than Finland’s? And how does it compare to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland

Are our prisons going to run out of space?

Is the weather getting weirder?

Get in touch if you’ve seen a number in the news you think we should take a look at: moreorless@bbc.co.uk

Contributors:
Heidi Karjalainen, Senior Research Economist at the Institute for Fiscal Studies
Harry Fletcher-Wood, Director of Training at StepLab
John Jerrim, Professor of Education and Social Statistics at University College London
Cassia Rowland, Senior Researcher at the Institute for Government
Friederike Otto, Professor of Climate Science at Imperial College London

Credits:

Presenter: Tim Harford
Producers: Lizzy McNeill, Nathan Gower, Katie Solleveld and Charlotte McDonald
Series producer: Tom Colls
Production co-ordinator: Maria Ogundele
Sound mix: Sarah Hockley and Neil Churchill
Editor: Richard Vadon

The Stats of the Nation: Older people, education, prisons and the weather

What kind of state does the UK find itself in as we start 2026? That’s the question Tim Harford and the More or Less team is trying to answer in a series of five special programmes.

In the third episode, we’re searching for answers to these questions:

Are there really 700,000 empty homes that could be used to solve the housing crisis?

Does the NHS pay less for drugs than health services in other countries?

Is violent crime going up or down?

Is the UK in the midst of a fertility crisis?

Get in touch if you’ve seen a number in the news you think we should take a look at: moreorless@bbc.co.uk

Contributors:

Dr Huseyin Naci, Associate Professor and Director the Pharmaceutical Policy Lab at the London School of Economics
Professor Jennifer Dowd, deputy director of the Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science at the University of Oxford

Credits:

Presenter: Tim Harford
Reporters: Lizzy McNeill and Nathan Gower
Producers: Katie Solleveld and Charlotte McDonald
Series producer: Tom Colls
Production co-ordinator: Maria Ogundele
Sound mix: Sarah Hockley and James Beard
Editor: Richard Vadon

The Stats of the Nation: Sex, drugs and empty homes

Bernie Sanders, a Senator in the United States and one of the front-runners in the campaign to be the Democratic presidential candidate, said on Twitter that it costs $12,000 to have a baby in his country. He compared that figure to Finland, where he said it costs $60. In this edition of More or Less, Tim Harford looks at whether Sanders has got his figures right. With Carol Sakala of US organisation Childbirth Connection and Mika Gissler of the National Institute for Health and Welfare, Finland. 

Producer: Darin Graham 
Presenters: Tim Harford and Charlotte McDonald 

Image: A newborn baby's hand. 
Credit:Getty Images/TongRo Images Inc

Bernie Sanders and the cost of having a baby

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