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New York Times Opinion

The first draft of our future. Mapping the new world order through interviews and conversations. Every Thursday, from New York Times Opinion.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Matter of Opinion

This week, we’re sharing a great conversation Ross had on “The Ezra Klein Show” this past spring. Ezra asks Ross about his most recent book, “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” But along the way, they debate not just how religion influences the Trump administration but also their own lives. Come for their seeking and stay for their thoughts on ayahuasca and mystical encounters.

 • 02:39 - Trump: man of destiny?
 • 19:55 - Political power, cruelty and Godliness
 • 36:13 - Religion and spirituality in the modern world
 • 42:53 - The mysteries of the universe…
 • 48:38 - Aliens! Fairies! (and some Catholic history)
 • 56:51 - Contending with uncertainty and evil
 • 1:05:24 - Psychedelic experiences
 • 1:20:56 - Official knowledge
 • 1:38:58 - Book recommendations

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Ross and Ezra Klein Discuss Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics

For Democrats, President Trump’s victories have revealed the antidemocratic flaws at the core of our government. But could it be an opening for a constitutional revolution as the party searches for its next leader?

This week, Ross explores what that revolution would entail with Osita Nwanevu, the author of the book, “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding.”

3:46 - What's wrong with our democracy? 
9:07 - Our undemocratic founding 
17:00 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution
23:52 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 
29:26 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?
37:17 - What Trump’s presidency says about democracy
40:30 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 
46:29 - The mystical element of our politics

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Abolish the Senate. End the Electoral College. Pack the Court.

Would you use an algorithm to select your embryos? Enter Orchid, a company that promises parents the ability to protect their future children through genetic testing for embryos before pregnancy. The founder, Noor Siddiqui, and Ross debate the scientific, moral and ethical implications of designing a “healthy” child and what we lose in separating reproduction from sex.

 • 01:27 - Orchid’s vision
 • 04:59- The process and benefits
 • 17:20 - Noor explains why Orchid was developed
 • 22:00- Criticism and skepticism around genetic screening
 • 36:21 - Does IVF need to change?
 • 44:00 - “The moral status of the embryo”
 • 53:36 - How does this technology change us?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The Next Parenting Trend Starts Before Conception

Does America have a moral obligation to the world? The former Department of Government Efficiency staffer Jeremy Lewin, now deputy administrator for the United States Agency for International Development, explains how he is implementing President Trump’s foreign aid philosophy and what it means for humanitarian assistance going forward.

 • 01:59 - From the private sector to interviewing with Elon Musk
 • 09:18 - The rapid restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.
 • 19:44 - Lewin’s critiques of U.S.A.I.D.’s focus
 • 25:15 - The most controversial cuts: humanitarian aid 
 • 29:50 - America’s interests first, values-based interests second
 • 40:14 - What is the future vision for foreign aid?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The DOGE Alum Asking if Foreign Aid Is America’s Problem

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.

 • 01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate
 • 06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication
 • 13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?
 • 19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions
 • 31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”
 • 45:38 - Disclosure
 • 52:51 - “Amazing.”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

 

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

What if the Government Believes in U.F.O.s More Than You Do?

Julie K. Brown thinks Jeffrey Epstein didn’t act alone. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Brown, the investigative reporter whose work ultimately led to Epstein’s re-arrest, about what the government could release that it hasn’t and how the story is bigger than Epstein.

 • 2:32 - Brown's initial interest in the Epstein case
 • 5:26 - Discovering Epstein's crimes and the plea deal
 • 13:13 - Epstein's victims and the impact of Brown's reporting
 • 18:20 - Epstein's wealth and connections
 • 25:20 - Epstein's social circles
 • 35:01 - Certainty and unsolved mysteries
 • 45:25 - The role of government in the case
 • 51:04 - Trump and the political fallout

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

She Exposed Epstein, and Shares MAGA’s Anger

The conservative Christian podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey joins Ross on “Interesting Times” this week to explain why “toxic empathy” has a stranglehold on politics, whether evangelical Christians have a red line President Trump could cross and why her commentary has echoes of Phyllis Schlafly.

 • 01:26 “The New Phyllis Schlafly”
 • 9:46 Untangling the web of Evangelical Protestants
 • 15:50 Female authority in the church
 • 22:12 What is “toxic empathy”?
 • 30:55 Toxic empathy and cruelty in American politics
 • 40:19 Do conservative christians have a red line?
 • 57:24 “The mushy middle”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is ‘Toxic Empathy’ Pulling Christians to the Left?

How has the war in Gaza reverberated throughout American politics? Opinion columnist Bret Stephens and Ross Douthat debate the implications of the Israel-Gaza conflict on antisemitism, the morality of war, and why “Monday morning quarterbacking” is not productive when taking stock of military actions in the Middle East.

 • 01:56 Israel actions in Gaza
 • 04:39 The moral baseline
 • 13:31 What is the end game?
 • 15:52 The role of Israel in American politics
 • 23:44 Can you criticize Israel without becoming antisemetic? 
 • 36:05 Does Israel have obligations to the Jewish diaspora?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Israel’s Moral Balance Beam

Happy Independence Day! We’ll be back next week with a new episode, but today we’re sharing the episode that started us on the path to “Interesting Times.” Ross Douthat talks to Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Together they wrote the book “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream.”

They review their George W. Bush-era prescriptions for the Republican Party to reclaim the working-class vote and the ways they were right (and wrong) about building a new Republican majority.

 • 03:47 George W. Bush era
 • 12:06 Rise and fall of the Tea Party
 • 18:19 Trump’s 2016 “blood and guts” message
 • 28:11 Trump’s effect on the right and left
 • 35:48 Trump’s first term economic agenda
 • 39:30 Elon Musk vs JD Vance
 • 46:50 Imagining an activist, conservative government

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Why Trump’s Blood-and-Guts Strategy Worked

The billionaire Peter Thiel is unimpressed with our pace of innovation. In this episode, he critiques artificial intelligence, longevity science and space travel — and warns that our lack of progress could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the emergence of the Antichrist.

 • 01:19 - What does stagnation mean in 2025?
 • 06:30 - Peter Thiel's case for more progress and innovation
 • 11:30 - Does taking more scientific risk include life extension?
 • 15:14 - Peter Thiel's political history
 • 18:34 - Did Trump live up to Thiel's expectations?
 • 25:10 - Does Elon Musk still want to go to Mars?
 • 28:09 - How Thiel defines A.I.
 • 33:20 - Is A.I. Too Modest An Ambition?
 • 35:23 - How will the human race evolve? Should it?
 • 41:53 - Thiel's critique of Silicon Valley
 • 43:40 - Who is the real Antichrist?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Ross and Ezra Klein Discuss Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics

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