A Vision of a ‘Society Without Capitalism’

Democratic socialists are having a moment. But can they actually remake the Democratic Party — and the American economy — in their image? My guest today, Bhaskar Sunkara, is longtime democratic socialist, and he makes the case that socialism has a universal appeal that transcends our current politics and will ultimately triumph against capitalism.

• 0:00 Intro

• 1:24 The rise of democratic socialism

• 5:00 Why is this a breakthrough moment for Democratic Socialism?

• 8:24 Class Realities: The demographics of socialist voters

• 9:26 The intellectual foundations of the American left

• 11:02 What socialists want: Affordable housing, Medicare for All

• 15:55 Socialist housing policy: construction, rent control, public housing

• 18:17 The socialist approach to AI and technological change

• 22:16 The case for unions

• 24:18 Is Democratic Socialism compatible with capitalism?

• 25:57 Class conflict vs. the identity politics of the wokeness era

• 29:00 The ideological conflict between Hillary Clinton liberals and the Bernie Sanders left

• 30:40 This Socialist wants the left to stop hating America

• 36:38 Why Israel-Palestine and anti-imperialism are central issues for Democratic Socialists

• 45:51 Luigi Mangione and the illiberal left

• 50:37 Is Zohran Mamdani a moderate?

• 51:54 Was Joe Biden's presidency a socialist experiment?

• 55:42 Raising taxes to expand the welfare state

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

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