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Eric Siu and Neil Patel

Neil Patel and Eric Siu bring you daily ACTIONABLE digital marketing lessons that they've learned through years of being in the trenches. Whether you have a new website or you're an established business, you'll learn the latest SEO, content marketing, social media, email marketing, conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today from people that actually practice marketing and operate business. Approaching 100M downloads with 2,500+ episodes, you're sure to find something that will help you grow faster. Also don't forget to subscribe to our Marketing School Youtube channel to get more marketing goodness.

Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Hosted by Neil and Eric, this surprise live episode breaks down the best business investments of the year: choosing high-quality entrepreneur peer groups (YPO, EO style forums), saying yes to selective lunch networking, and protecting the talent bar with founder-level hiring discipline. They unpack why great people compound results, how enterprise deals often start from event relationships and long RFP cycles, and why relational wealth beats monetary wealth. Plus, favorite AI tools for productivity and marketing: Granola for meeting notes, Nano Banana for ad images, and NotebookLM for faster slide decks. Sponsor: npdigital.com.

Key takeaways:

-Peer groups: quality over quantity.

-Networking lunches: 2 to 3 wins per 10.

-Talent bar: founders must enforce it.

Chapters:

00:00 Surprise live kickoff

00:21 Peer groups that matter

02:47 Weekly lunch networking

05:05 Founder-led talent bar

09:33 Relational wealth lesson

11:12 Travel, events, RFPs

15:28 AI tools: Granola, Nano Banana, NotebookLM

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: / @levelingupofficial 

 Neil Patel: / @neilpatel 

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Best Work Investment of the Year

Neil and Eric break down the real hiring mix between sourced candidates and job ads, why executive hiring should come from your network, and how overwhelmed recruiting teams change the playbook. They share practical LinkedIn recruiting tactics, the “open to work” signal they use when evaluating acquisitions, and why culture is a 60-day moving average. Plus, a sharp debate on services vs SaaS, why bad hires compound into the “Bozo explosion,” and a quick shout to MP Digital, Ubersuggest, and Answer The Public at npdigital.com.

Key takeaways:

-Sourcing wins for director-plus hires.

-Job ads can uncover surprising talent fast.

-Bad hires compound into massive output loss.

Chapters:

(00:00) Hiring sources vs job ads

(01:54) Executive roles: hire by network

(06:55) “Open to work” acquisition signal

(08:50) Culture is a 60-day average

(15:47) MP Digital and SEO tools

(16:09) Services business vs SaaS

(22:30) Organic social and YouTube audit

(23:39) B players and Bozo explosion

Your Hiring Strategy Is Broken (Here's Why)

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down why founders can’t outsource recruiting, how “A players” attract more A players, and why the first hires become your company’s DNA. They share a real hiring story (an “expensive” bet that paid off), a simple test to spot weak links on a team, and why replacing instead of micromanaging unlocks self-managing teams. You’ll also hear practical retention ideas for top talent, plus a quick take on YouTube growth trends, packaging vs. over-optimizing metrics, and why niche, high-intent audiences monetize better. Sponsored mention: Karrot.ai.

Key takeaways:

-A-players hire A-players, fast.

-Don’t manage harder, hire better.

-Views are vanity, revenue is strategy.

Chapters:

00:00 Founder-led recruiting matters

01:00 Co-founder recruiting leverage

02:10 Expensive hire, huge upside

04:51 Naval’s “team interview” test

06:11 Replace, don’t micromanage

07:10 Small team, better results

08:01 Retain talent with alignment

09:09 ABM ads and landing pages

10:01 YouTube trend: simpler edits

14:30 Brain-rot views vs revenue

18:31 Wide TAM vs BOFU content

19:12 Growth metrics and focus

21:36 Entrepreneurship is a game

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Founders Cannot Outsource Recruiting

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down the “decline of AI” narrative and why red growth charts for vibe coding tools like Cursor, Lovable, and Windsurf can be misleading. They unpack churn vs stickiness, unrealistic ARR expectations, and why enterprise coding revenue (especially Anthropic Claude Code) still signals strength. Using Ramp AI Index spend data, they discuss the momentum of OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google, plus why marketers are shifting from tool-chasing to KPI-driven fundamentals. They also review Granola AI meeting notes and why data verification matters.

Key takeaways:

-AI bubble fears ≠ AI slowdown

-Enterprise AI adoption is the real signal

-Verify AI outputs before decisions

Chapters:

00:00 AI “death” chart debate

02:00 Data accuracy and enterprise revenue

03:18 Unrealistic ARR growth expectations

06:48 Data labeling and AI gold rush

08:04 MP Digital and SEO tools

08:21 Ramp AI Index adoption trends

10:48 Marketing shifts from tool-chasing

12:44 Granola AI meeting note-taker

16:45 Claude vs ChatGPT data accuracy

18:11 Verify numbers before presenting

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

The decline of AI

To get ad placements on premium websites, go to https://discover.taboola.com/ms.

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

In this episode, Neil and Eric debate whether running a company is like raising kids, then pivot into a wild pricing lesson: how “at capacity” scarcity can filter buyers and increase close rates for consultants and service businesses. They unpack where fake scarcity breaks (enterprise), why AI is reshaping marketing agencies, and how software plus services can stay differentiated. Plus, a look at Menlo Ventures’ enterprise GenAI data, why coding spend dominates, and why hallucinations hit marketing harder than verifiable domains like code.

Key takeaways:

-Scarcity is a filter, not a trick.

-Enterprise buyers punish “we’re too busy.”

-AI makes coding sticky, marketing messy.

Chapters:

00:00 Company vs kids debate

03:44 Scarcity pricing strip club story

05:49 Where scarcity works (and fails)

07:05 AI marketing and agentic workflows

07:33 Double pay for AI fluency idea

09:46 Menlo Ventures enterprise AI stats

12:08 Software plus services differentiation

13:47 Department AI spend: coding leads

14:16 Hallucinations: marketing vs coding

16:57 Wrap and goodbye

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

The Strip Club Sales Lesson That 10x's Your Pricing

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

In this episode, Neil and Eric debate whether answer engine optimization AEO is overhyped, breaking down Ahrefs data on ChatGPT vs Google traffic, why search still drives most discovery, and how to think about AI search optimization across ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, and more. They share real AI ROI examples from Goldman Sachs research, talk LLM use cases for marketing, sales, and ops, discuss AI's impact on jobs, and reveal their favorite AI stocks and winning marketing formula heading into 2026.

Key takeaways:

• AEO vs SEO, why AI search is overhyped now but essential long term.

• Real-world AI ROI from JP Morgan, UPS, Target, Chipotle, and more.

• How Neil and Eric use ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, and other LLMs to scale marketing.

Chapters:

00:00 AEO vs SEO hype

01:02 ChatGPT vs Google traffic share

02:40 AEO short-term vs. long-term

05:55 LLM platform use cases

08:47 Real AI ROI case studies

11:02 AI, jobs, and 2027 outlook

12:59 Favorite AI stocks to watch

15:02 Hiring AI native marketers

17:16 2026 marketing experimentation playbook

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Why AEO is Overhyped

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

In this episode, Neil and Eric break down the concept of "Rich vs King" AKA Money Vs Power, using Microsoft vs SAS Institute to explore wealth vs control, equity, and generational businesses. They talk ambition after kids, compounding, TAM, IQ, focus, and why learning beats raw talent in entrepreneurship. You’ll hear how to think about billion dollar goals, picking the right niche (like HVAC), improving your focus over decades, and why B2B marketers misuse LinkedIn account-based marketing, plus how karrot.ai helps fix it.

Key takeaways:

-Rich vs king: choosing control or maximum upside as your company scales.

-Compounding, focus and the right niche beat raw IQ in business.

-Ambition, kids and balance reshape your path to billion dollar outcomes.

Chapters:

(00:00) Rich vs King for founders

(02:10) Microsoft vs SAS Institute example

(04:20) Rich, king, and life balance

(06:15) Compounding, TAM, and ambition

(08:10) IQ, learning and market niches

(10:30) HVAC edge and simple businesses

(12:30) Learning M&A, AI and recruiting

(14:20) Focus over decades as founders

(16:10) Money, distraction, and side projects

(18:00) Hiring experts, SEO roots, wrap

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Rich or King?

For fast, affordable business insurance as low as $29/mo, go to http://nextinsurance.com/ms

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down why patience, focus, and real value creation beat hype, why hating billionaires signals misplaced blame, and why virality and vibe coding rarely build durable companies. They explore bad actors vs success, the trap of chasing views, and why true leverage comes from solving customer problems, not dopamine hits or internal DIY tools. A sharp look at modern startup culture, attention chasing, and what actually lasts.

Key takeaways:

• Patience compounds faster than virality

• Value creation beats attention chasing

• Focus builds generational companies

Chapters:

(00:00) Founder patience

(02:20) Learning through osmosis

(04:55) Billionaires debate

(07:30) Vibe coding limits

(11:55) Virality misconceptions

(17:40) Operating vs popularity

(20:40) Generational business mindset

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Founders Must Let The Cake Bake

To get ad placements on premium websites, go to https://discover.taboola.com/ms

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Live events, in-person leadership, and long-term planning take center stage as Neil and Eric unpack why Elon Musk says live events are the last true luxury, how in-person time deepens team relationships, and why three-year planning beats short-term thinking. They break down accountability, B2B growth, RFP-focused marketing, and how great leaders push just hard enough to keep performance high without burning people out. Hosted by Neil and Eric, this episode is packed with actionable insights for founders, marketers, and B2B leaders looking to scale smarter.

Key takeaways

• Live events are the last real luxury

• One metric per leader drives accountability

• Great leaders push hard without burning people out

Chapters

(00:00) Elon Musk on live events as luxury

(01:22) Why in-person events still matter

(03:33) New marketing content formats with the team

(05:18) Deepening relationships with in-person time

(06:11) Three-year planning and 3HAG explained

(08:40) Beyond EOS and quarterly planning theater

(11:12) RFP growth, B2B pipeline, and key channels

(13:28) Holding leaders accountable to one core metric

(15:19) Pushing teams, follow-ups, and daily metrics

(18:32) Healthy tension, chaos, and getting things done

(20:24) Founder pressure, AI feedback, and leadership style

(21:45) When people can’t handle the pace in business

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Elon Musk: Live Events Are The Only Remaining Luxury

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric share real-world B2B marketing strategies for 2025 and 2026, covering how to buy failing SEO tools to drive traffic, scale corporate webinars, double down on product-led growth, and use live events and paid speaking engagements to fill your pipeline. They break down AI SEO, social content hooks, enterprise sales psychology, and Peter Thiel’s “one thing” focus so you can drive more revenue and help clients hit their KPIs.

Key takeaways:

Scale B2B leads through events, corporate webinars, and strategic speaking engagements.

Use AI SEO and content collabs to compound organic growth.

Win enterprise deals by focusing on buyer KPIs and promotions.

Chapters:

00:00 Buying products instead of ads

00:24 Acquiring failing SEO tools

00:44 Corporate webinars for B2B leads

01:29 In-person events and live streaming

02:35 Paid ads, PLG, and expansion

03:26 Conference luncheons and wrong events

04:00 B2B SaaS events and collabs

04:24 AI SEO, webinars, and social content

05:22 Hooks, captions, and social reach

06:11 Sponsoring events and paying to speak

08:17 Repurposing podcasts into infographics

09:23 Peter Thiel’s one-thing focus

10:27 Executive KPIs and revenue focus

11:24 Product growth without marketing

12:19 CEO vs operator responsibilities

12:56 COO profitability test in 2026

14:17 Enterprise sales hack with peer pressure

15:26 Closing by aligning with KPIs

16:25 Helping clients get promoted

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

What's Working For Us In Marketing Right Now?

In episode #2497, we are discussing the rise of de-influencers and what it means. De-influencers are people causing negative influence online. This is happening more and more now and when someone who isn’t liked is promoting your services or products, it’s actually going to hurt your sales and revenue. Don’t de-influence, influence! 
TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES:

[00:00] Today’s topic: The Rise of De-Influencers.

[00:28] What a de-influencer is.

[01:16] Why you don’t want de-influencers anywhere near your business.

[02:06] Exploring why there isn’t a way to defend yourself against de-influencers.

[02:37] That’s it for today! Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe!

Go to https://www.marketingschool.io to learn more!

This podcast is on our Youtube Channel. Watch it here: https://youtu.be/ys74POpfWcY 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

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Leave Some Feedback:

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Connect with Us: 

Single Grain << Eric’s ad agency

NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency

Twitter @neilpatel 

Twitter @ericosiu

 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Rise of De-Influencers

Lyt når som helst, hvor som helst

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