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BBC Radio 4


Weekly conversation that will give you an in-depth understanding of the law stories making news and the legal decisions that could have a bearing on everyone in the UK. Whether it's unpicking a landmark legal ruling, explaining how laws are made or seeking clarity for you on a legal issue, The Law Show will be your guide.


Law in Action

Lucy Letby is serving 15 whole-life sentences after being convicted of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder seven others at the Countess of Chester hospital - with two attempts on one of her victims - between June 2015 and June 2016. 

But a campaign to clear her is being led by 14 medical experts who say there is no medical evidence for murders or attacks on those babies in her ward at the hospital. 

The expert witness at her trial, Dr Dewi Evans, has consistently defended the evidence he provided to the court. 

So what is an expert witness? When is their evidence required in court, what do they do, and who pays their fees? 

Also on this week's programme: 
Prince Harry wanted his day in court to face News Group Newspapers, but it never happened. Why did his case end so abruptly? 
And marry in haste repent at leisure - or not. The "legal queen" Tracey Moloney on annulment, divorce and why you can't choose between them. 

Presenter: Dr Joelle Grogan 
Producers: Ravi Naik and Louise Clarke
Editor: Tara McDermott

Contributors: 
Retired Crown Court Judge Nigel Lithman KC 
Amel Alghrani Professor of Law at the University of Liverpool
Aejaz Mussa, Barrister, One Law Chambers

Expert witnesses in criminal trials

Since the October 7th attacks by Hamas on Israel, and the IDF military invasion of the Gaza strip, terms like 'war crimes', 'crimes against humanity' and 'genocide' have been used when discussing the conflict.

Warrants have been issued by the International Criminal Court in the Hague for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, his former defence minister Yoav Gallant, and a Hamas commander Mohammed Deif - who has since died in an air strike - citing allegations of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

In this special episode of the Law Show, we'll ask what are the legal definitions of these terms, how victims in a conflict situation can seek justice, and we'll explain the difficulties of gathering evidence in war and proving claims in an international court. 

Presenter: Dr Joelle Grogan 
Producer: Louise Clarke 
Editor: Tara McDermott

Genocide, war crimes and justice

Justice delayed is justice denied - the court backlog in England and Wales has reached a record high and suspects being charged with new offences are regularly told they may not get a trial until 2027. Some courts are already booking court dates for 2028. The government has commissioned an independent review of criminal courts to work out how to cut waiting times. A victim of crime and a criminal defence solicitor tell Dr Joelle Grogan about the human cost of court delays. 

Also on the programme, the MP introducing a law to end the abuse of Lasting Powers of Attorney and what can someone do when their ex refuses to pay child maintenance?

Presenter: Dr Joelle Grogan 
Producers: Ravi Naik and Louise Clarke 
Editor: Tara McDermott 

Contributors: 
Tracey Moloney, solicitor, Moloney Family Solicitors
Stephen Davies, criminal defence solicitor at Edwards Duthie Shamash Solicitors 
Tom Franklin, CEO of the Magistrates Association 
Professor Carolyn Stephens, whose father was a victim of LPA abuse 
Fabian Hamilton, Labour MP for Leeds North East.

The human cost of court delays

When someone passes away - legally, what do you have to do?

In this episode, Dr Joelle Grogan and guests look at the host of legal obligations that have to be considered in England and Wales from declaring a death, to the circumstances in which a coroner becomes involved, dealing with a dead person’s estate and the grant of probate.

Note that in Scotland, different laws and rules apply. The Procurator Fiscal investigates all sudden, suspicious, accidental, unexpected and unexplained deaths and any death occurring in circumstances that give rise to serious public concern. Also in Scotland, "Confirmation of Executors" - also known as Confirmation - gives someone the legal authority to manage and distribute a deceased person's estate. It is similar to probate, but some procedures and terms used in the process differ.

Also on the programme:

A teenage boy recently lost a High Court case against his parents. He was unhappy that they had placed him in a Ghanaian boarding school because they feared that he was becoming involved in criminal activity in London.

The case rested on parental responsibility, and the judge ruled that their actions were within the scope of decisions that parents can make - and that the state shouldn't intervene.

But what is "parental responsibility" and is there a situation where a child can divorce their parents?

Presenter: Dr Joelle Grogan
Producer: Ravi Naik
Editor: Tara McDermott

Contributors:
Rachel Roche, from Roche Legal in York
Dr Imogen Jones, Associate Professor in Law at the University of Leeds
Melinda Giles, Law Society Council member and part of their Wills & Equity Committee
Tracey Moloney, from Moloney Family Solicitors

Death and the Law in England and Wales

What legal responsibilities does a company have to keep your data secure?

M&S, and the Co-op are picking up the pieces after their systems were hacked. 

The cyber criminals claim to have the private information of 20 million people who signed up to Co-op's membership scheme, but the firm have not confirmed that number. The Co-op says the breach did not include members’ passwords, bank or credit card details. However, experts say seemingly innocent information can be used to commit fraud or identity theft.

Companies aren’t the only target; on Monday this week, the Ministry of Justice revealed that the Legal Aid Agency was also hacked in April. 

So can you sue if your private data is stolen in this way? And if you're the employee who clicked on a hacker's dodgy link in an email, how liable are you for any losses that occur?

Also on the programme: 
How survivors of domestic violence in Scotland want to be told if their attackers make plea deals. 

Presenter: Joelle Grogan 
Producers: Ravi Naik and Charlotte Rowles 
Editor: Tara McDermott

Contributors 
Joe Tidy, BBC Cyber Correspondent 
Tim Capel, Legal Counsel for the Information Commissioner’s Office
Ian Jeffrey, Chief Executive of the Law Society
Brian McConnachie KC, a former crown prosecutor and now a senior advocate:

My data's been stolen in a cyberattack - can I sue?

Wrongful convictions in the Post Office scandal and for train fare evasion have been described by the Government as ‘catastrophic failures’, and it's held a consultation in England and Wales to reform private prosecutions. 

It covers private prosecutions brought by organisations, and also, the SJP - the single justice procedure - where a minor criminal offence is decided by a magistrate behind closed doors. Tens of thousands of rail fines have been quashed, after train companies were found to have misused the SJP system. 

So how should private prosecutions be reformed? 

Also on the programme: 
how "No Further Action" and police cautions can leave a lasting mark on safeguarding and criminal records checks. 

(Note that in Scotland, the nearest equivalent to a police caution is a Procurator Fiscal warning which is usually issued for low level offences such as street drinking or breach of the peace).

Presenter: Dr Joelle Grogan 
Producers: Ravi Naik and Charlotte Rowles
Editors: Tara McDermott and Nick Holland 

Contributors: 
Dr Jonathan Rogers, part of the campaign group Criminal Justice Reform Now and Co-Deputy Director of the Cambridge Centre for Criminal Justice
Tristan Kirk court correspondent at the London Evening Standard
Nathalie Potter head of DBS at Olliers solicitors in Manchester

Wrongful convictions: why private prosecutions face reform

The Victims and Courts Bill is progressing through Parliament, and will force convicted criminals to attend their sentencing hearings. 

If criminals convicted of the most serious offences in England or Wales refuse to attend, or are disruptive in court, they will face an extra two years in prison. There are other sanctions too, including missing out on family visits.

‘Reasonable force’ can also be used to get criminals to attend. 

The families of three women killed in London - Sabina Nessa, Jan Mustafa and Zara Aleena - have been campaigning for a new law. In each case, the men who murdered their loved ones refused to come to their sentencing hearings. 

Their families are not alone; the mother of 9 year old Olivia Pratt-Korbel, who was fatally shot in August 2022, has also been calling for a change in the law. The man who murdered her daughter also refused to come to court to be sentenced. 

But will the changes improve the court system for the families of victims? 

Also on the programme:
The first purely-AI legal service has been given the go ahead in England and Wales - what does it mean for the UK legal sector?
And who gets the dog? Why all couples might want to consider a "pet-nup" in case they split up.

Presenter: Joelle Grogan 
Producers: Ravi Naik and Charlotte Rowles
Editor Tara McDermott 

Contributors 
Charlie Sherrard KC, criminal justice barrister and judge 
Claire Waxman, Victim's Commissioner for London 
Dr Giulia Gentile, Department of Law, University of Essex and expert on AI and digital regulation 
Samantha Woodham, barrister and co-founder of The Divorce Surgery.

Should killers be forced to attend sentencing hearings?

The phrase “State related deaths” might mean little to the average person, but it's an umbrella term referring to a death in custody or a mental health setting. It also applies to situations when people have taken their own lives while in the armed forces or even to disasters like Grenfell or Hillsborough. 

What all these have in common is that they are followed by inquests or public inquiries, where investigators or coroners try to work out what caused the deaths. 

Public inquiries are set up to draw conclusions and release their findings, and coroners are required to write a "Prevention of Future Deaths" report when there are lessons to be learned. 

Hundreds of these PFD reports are released in England and Wales each year - yet there is no system in place to ensure preventative changes are made. 

In Scotland, the equivalent is a Fatal Accident Inquiry. It's held by a procurator fiscal - and not a coroner - in front of a sheriff, and has a wider remit than an inquest. It too, can flag up systemic failures that led to a death, and precautions that should be made in future. 

So should the UK have a body that ensures these warnings are heeded?

Also on the programme: 
The government has welcomed Law Commission reforms to Wills - which includes new protections against so-called "predatory marriages". 
And the Supreme Court case which could change the rules for all divorces in England and Wales. 

Presenter: Joelle Grogan 
Producers: Ravi Naik and Charlotte Rowles 
Editor: Tara McDermott

Contributors: 
Deborah Coles, Director of the charity Inquest
Kate Stone, barrister at Garden Court North chambers
Alexander Learmonth KC, barrister at New Square chambers
Tracey Moloney, Moloney Family solicitors

How can avoidable deaths be prevented?

Thirty years ago the Crown Prosecution Service was established - the body which acts as a gatekeeper to the criminal justice system of England and Wales. Those three decades have not been an easy ride for the CPS, which faced staffing shortages from the start. What's beyond doubt is that a well-run prosecution service is essential if the criminal courts are going to deliver justice.

In this first programme of the new series, Joshua Rozenberg speaks to the current head of the CPS - the Director of Public Prosecutions Alison Saunders.

They discuss how the CPS has changed the legal landscape, as well as some of the key areas of work for the CPS in recent years such as increasing the success rate of rape prosecutions; bringing historical child sexual abuse cases to trial; the recovery of proceeds of crime; and the new challenges social media is presenting for the justice system. 

Producer: Richard Fenton-Smith.

Interview with Alison Saunders, Director of Public Prosecutions

Do the laws designed to counter terrorism and extremism strike the right balance between stopping violent attacks and protecting our civil liberties?

Weighing up this question has been one of the main tasks of David Anderson QC - the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation. Mr Anderson is due to step down after six years in the post, and he speaks to Joshua Rozbenberg about the changes he has seen in counter-terrorism law, and whether the net has now been cast too wide in the fight against extremism. 

One critic of the current law is Salman Butt who is bringing a judicial review case against the Home Office, which he says unfairly labelled him as an extremist speaker. 

Mr Butt, who is the editor of the website Islam 21c, says the government conflates conservative religious views with extremism and this unfairly targets members of the Muslim community. Next month at the High Court he will be challenging sections of the government's Prevent counter-extremism policy, which he says conflicts with the right to free speech.

These concerns are shared by the Home Affairs select committee which has also criticised the policy, with MPs saying that that unless concerns among the Muslim community are addressed, Prevent would continue to be viewed by many as toxic.

Law in Action has also discovered that one of the key architects of Prevent also believes it has lost its way. In this programme, Joshua Rozenberg speaks to former GCHQ director Sir David Omand about how the strategy was devised and how it differs to his original vision.

Producers: Richard Fenton-Smith & Matt Bardo
Editor: Penny Murphy.

Terrorism, Extremism and the Law

The international lawyer Robert Spano, originally from Iceland, has just completed his nine-year stint as a judge at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. For the last two and half of those nine years, he was the president of the court. 
In an exclusive interview with Joshua Rozenberg, he shares his thoughts on the relationship between the UK and the ECHR, on the Justice Secretary Dominic Raab’s planned Bill of Rights, and on the future of democracy in Europe. 
Photo credit: Picture Credit: Image of Robert Spano, former President of the ECHR by Candice Imbert, Council of Europe. 
Presenter: Joshua Rozenberg
Producer: Arlene Gregorius
Sound engineers: James Beard in London and Matthieu Zisswiller in Strasbourg 
Researcher: Diane Richardson
Production coordinator: Helena Warwick-Cross
Editor: Simon Watts

Full-length interview with Robert Spano, recent president of the ECHR

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