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Intelligence Squared

Intelligence Squared is the home of lively debate and deep-dive discussion. Follow Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts and enjoy four regular episodes per week taking you to the heart of the issues that matter in the company of the world’s great minds. We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be. Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2. 

And if you’d like to support our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations, as well as ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today. Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

America used to pride itself on ambition. Today, it looks stuck. Meanwhile, China has been busy building the future. In a new book, Breakneck, technology analyst Dan Wang provides a new framework for understanding China. It operates as an engineering state - which brings a sledgehammer to problems both physical and social, in contrast with America’s lawyerly society, rooted in its constitution, which protects individual rights but blocks almost everything, good and bad, and leads to greater inequality.

In this episode, Dan speaks to Chris Miller about the remarkable strengths and appalling weaknesses of the engineering state, and how each country reveals a better path for the other.

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What Does China's Seismic Economic Progress Mean for the USA? With Dan Wang

One of the greatest medical breakthroughs of the twentieth century is set to become one of the biggest threats of the twenty-first - but what can be done to stem the rising tide of antibiotic resistance?

In this episode, host Caroline Dodds Pennock speaks with Liam Shaw, biologist and author of Dangerous Miracle: A Natural History of Antibiotics – and How We Burned Through Them. From the miraculous discovery of penicillin to the industrial-scale production that changed healthcare and agriculture forever, Shaw takes us through the fascinating - and cautionary - story of these ‘fossil fuels of medicine.’ Together, they explore when and how the threat of resistance emerged, the roles of Big Pharma and industrial farming in accelerating the crisis, and the parallels with climate change in how we’ve squandered a finite resource.

But as MIT researchers recently announced a breakthrough with AI designing antibiotics for gonorrhoea and MRSA superbugs, Shaw also outlines clear roadmaps for the future - including bold proposals for transforming the way we develop, patent and pay for antibiotics.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

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How can we win the battle against antibiotic resistance? With Liam Shaw

No one doubts the bravery of the thousands of men who flew and died in Bomber Command. The death rate was an appalling 44%. And yet until the opening of a monument in Green Park in 2012 they had received no official recognition, with many historians claiming that the offensive was immoral and unjustified. How can it be right, they argue, for the Allies to have deliberately targeted German cities causing the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians? Even on a strategic level the offensive failed to bring about the collapse of civilian morale that was its intention. Others, however, maintain that the attacks made a decisive contribution to the Allied victory. Vast numbers of German soldiers and planes were diverted from the eastern and western fronts, while Allied bombing attacks virtually destroyed the German air force, clearing the way for the invasion of the continent. Arguing for the motion were AC Grayling, philosopher and author of 'Among the Dead Cities: Is the Targeting of Civilians in War Ever Justified?'; and Richard Overy, Professor of history at Exeter University who has published extensively on World War II and air power in the 20th century. Arguing against them were Antony Beevor, award-winning historian and author of the No. 1 international bestseller 'The Second World War'; and Patrick Bishop, historian and author of 'Bomber Boys'. The debate was chaired by Jeremy O'Grady, Editor-in-chief of The Week magazine and co-founder of Intelligence Squared.
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Classic Debate: The Allied bombing of German cities in World War II was unjustifiable

From ancient empires to modern metropolises, what do rivers tell us about the way humans build, worship, and fight for their worlds?

In this episode, historian Vanessa Taylor joins host Caroline Dodds Pennock to explore the powerful role rivers have played in shaping human history, culture, and identity. Drawing from her new book, Seven Rivers, Vanessa takes us on a journey down the Nile, Danube, Niger, Mississippi, Ganges, Yangtze, and Thames to explore the empires built along their banks, the spiritual and cultural significance these waterways hold, and how they’ve been used — and abused — throughout history.

Vanessa Taylor is a leading environmental historian and expert on the politics of water. Her book, Seven Rivers: A Journey Through the Currents of Human History, is available now.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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How have rivers shaped human existence? With Vanessa Taylor

Did you know that women’s brains change during puberty, pregnancy and the menopause? That women are twice as likely to be diagnosed with Alzheimer’s? Or that female athletes are more prone to certain injuries than their male counterparts? 

In her book How The Female Body Works, journalist Polly Vernon sets out on a quest to understand the female body. She speaks with neuroscientists, academics, and medical experts to uncover how women’s bodies work and how they change — from puberty and childbirth to the menopause and beyond.

In this episode, she sits down with Danielle Sands to talk about women’s pain, medical misogyny, the best ways for women to exercise and stay healthy, and how we can start closing the knowledge gap about women’s health.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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How Well do we Understand the Female Body? With Polly Vernon

In this episode, award-winning journalist Evan Osnos joins Carl Miller to discuss the lives of the Ultrarich and themes from his new book The Haves and the Have Yachts. Together, they explore the secretive world of the ultra-wealthy, the symbolism of superyachts, and what extreme luxury reveals about inequality, power, and the future of capitalism.

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 If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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Are the Rich Preparing for Civilisational Collapse? With Evan Osnos

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Can ancient philosophy make sense of a modern life?

In this episode, Sophie Scott-Brown speaks to academic philosopher and author Angie Hobbs about the enduring relevance of Plato and how his ideas continue to resonate in today’s world. 

Plato’s Republic remains a foundational text to Western thought. Hobbs brings us back to this key text and reminds us that throughout all of Plato’s writing the narrator is always present. Plato’s true legacy, therefore, lines in the questions he forces us to ask – about justice, leadership, love and truth. His methodology of inquiry still underpins much of modern philosophy, shaping both its ideals and its blindspots. For Hobbs, Plato is more relevant than ever, and we should view his works not as relics but tools necessary in our modern world. Regardless of whether we’re reading ancient texts or scrolling through social media, one thing remains true: no opinion is free from context. 

Angie Hobbs is the Professor of the Public Understanding of Philosophy at the University of Sheffield. She is a specialist in Ancient Greek philosophy, focusing on ethics, political theory, and moral psychology. Her new book, Why Plato Matters Now, a definitive guide to Plato and his place in the modern world. 

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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Does Plato Still Matter Today? with Angie Hobbs

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How has the past thirty years of American politics impacted our present?

In this episode, Atossa Araxia Abrahamian speaks to journalist and author John Ganz about how the 1990s were the perfect storm that created a new America that birthed the Donald Trump Era.

Many today look back on the 1990s with a sense of nostalgia. With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the election of Bill Clinton, Americans of the 90s were ready for a “kinder, gentler America.” But as Ganz argues, the decade was far more turbulent than it seemed. Beneath the surface ran the aftershocks of Reagan-era economics, the rise of anti-establishment rhetoric and a hunger for strongman-style leadership. In retrospect, the decade was a precursor to today’s fractured political landscape. Looking to the present, Ganz reminds us that while history may be shaped by deep structures, it’s just as often steered by chaos and chance. Whether that’s a warning – or a window of opportunity – is up to us. 

John Ganz is the author of the widely acclaimed Unpopular Front newsletter for Substack and writes a monthly column for the Nation. His work has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, New Republic, New Statesman and other publications. Today we’re discussing his new book, When The Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracies, and the Origins of Trumpism, an analysis of the tumult of the early 1990s and the rise of a new America that birthed the Donald Trump Era. 

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If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

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Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access.

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Did the Road to Trump Start in the 90’s? with John Ganz

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How did the most powerful force in history begin with a faint smudge on a photographic plate?

In this episode, Adam McCauley speaks to physicist and award-winning science writer Frank Close about his new history of the development of nuclear power and the extraordinary minds behind it.

Beginning with Henri Becquerel’s accidental discovery in 1896 Paris, Close explores the unlikely origins of the nuclear age through the chain reaction of scientific breakthroughs and personal obsessions that set the stage for the splitting of the atom. It is the ultimate story of how pursuit of this hidden source of nuclear power, which began innocently and collaboratively, was overwhelmed by the politics of the 1930s, and following devastation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki opened the way to a still more terrible possibility: a thermonuclear bomb, the so-called “backyard weapon”, that could destroy all life on earth – from anywhere.

Frank Close is a Fellow of the Royal Society, Professor Emeritus of Theoretical Physics at Oxford University and Fellow Emeritus in Physics at Exeter College, Oxford. His new book is Destroyer of Worlds: The Deep History of the Nuclear Age: 1895-1965.

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

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Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

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Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access.

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Was the Nuclear Bomb Inevitable? With Frank Close

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‘Everyone is originally from Africa, and this book is therefore for everyone.’ – Zeinab Badawi 

Too often historians have told the history of Africa through the prism of colonialism. But what picture of the continent emerges when we do away with making the story of Africa so anchored in European colonialism? 

In July 2025 award-winning broadcaster Zeinab Badawi returned to the Intelligence Squared stage to tell a new history of Africa – in all its shades and complexities – without the stifling gaze of Europe. Drawing on the themes of her latest book, An African History of Africa: From the Dawn of Humanity to Independence, she discussed the origins of humankind, the emergence of ancient civilisations and empires, and the joys and thrills of Independence. 

Having visited more than thirty African countries to interview countless historians, anthropologists, archaeologists and local storytellers, Badawi explored a gripping new history of the oldest inhabited continent on the planet, told through the voices of Africans themselves.

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If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

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... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

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An African History of Africa, with Zeinab Badawi (Part Two)

On January 6 2021 a pro-Trump mob stormed the U.S Capitol seeking to overturn the 2020 presidential election result. Rioters overran police and broke through windows chanting ‘stop the steal’ while threatening Vice President Mike Pence with violence. The moment sent shockwaves through America as people tried to understand how this could be happening in the world’s most powerful democracy. There is now growing pressure on the Department of Justice to prosecute Trump for his role in the incident after a set of public hearings revealed damning evidence of his actions. But others argue that while Trump’s conduct after the November 2020 election was reprehensible, not every wrongdoing, even a highly consequential one, is a crime. Who’s right and who’s wrong? To find out, we invited David Blight, Sterling Professor of American History at Yale University, and Rich Lowry, Editor-in-chief of National Review, to debate the issue. Our host for this discussion is journalist, academic and former White House correspondent for the BBC, Philippa Thomas.
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The Sunday Debate: Prosecute Trump

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